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Can Jonathan Martin hold down the LT spot?
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Would you feel comfortable with J. Martin playing LT for the Dolphins next season?
Yes
43%
 43%  [ 10 ]
No
56%
 56%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 23

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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 9065
Location: Dolphins Stadium
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
You know, I'm starting to feel like an OL is not as difficult to build as we always were taught to think. You need a scheme and players who fit it. Obviously, some players are better/more consistent than others. But I've seen far too many "washed up" OL who were cut for being useless on their previous teams fit right in with a new scheme in a new jersey.

I exaggerate there, but still, I don't think any single OL is worth the kind of money Jake Long will warrant.

Even if Martin can't handle the job, a GM with foresight (which Ireland has, even if it may be too much so) will find some veteran to push Martin and potentially start if Martin proves that he can't handle it.


It isnt. It really is the easiest group to train. You just need complimentary parts and players that fit with your scheme. Miami's offensive line when Ricky Williams ran for 1800 yards was not comprised of a bunch of first rounders but they were good at power run blocking. This group of players are a mixture of power run and zone run blockers. There is only true player equally good against pass and run and that is our center. I also believe Jake Long will be franchised. If this team franchised Paul Solai and eventually resigned him, I expect them to do the same with Jake Long and the truth is I would do the same thing. It is a tough position to be in but it is the right one. Whether he is an ideal fit for this scheme remains to be seen but when healthy he is one of the better LT's in the game. We already see Martin is a liability at LT. He has three years to get stronger.
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Manlaw15


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the end of the season i thought there was no way Miami brings back Jake Long. Now I'm a little more optimistic because I feel Philbin will want to spread this offense out next season. Fact is Miami will bring in at least two new WRs and at least a good receiving TE whether it's through the draft or FA. Last thing Miami wants to do next season is to keep their TE at home because our LT can't hold his own against the good pass rushers in the NFL.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manlaw15 wrote:
At the end of the season i thought there was no way Miami brings back Jake Long. Now I'm a little more optimistic because I feel Philbin will want to spread this offense out next season. Fact is Miami will bring in at least two new WRs and at least a good receiving TE whether it's through the draft or FA. Last thing Miami wants to do next season is to keep their TE at home because our LT can't hold his own against the good pass rushers in the NFL.


Word. And Welcome to the boards, Manlaw!
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Manlaw15 wrote:
At the end of the season i thought there was no way Miami brings back Jake Long. Now I'm a little more optimistic because I feel Philbin will want to spread this offense out next season. Fact is Miami will bring in at least two new WRs and at least a good receiving TE whether it's through the draft or FA. Last thing Miami wants to do next season is to keep their TE at home because our LT can't hold his own against the good pass rushers in the NFL.


Word. And Welcome to the boards, Manlaw!


Hi Manlaw
When you said you "weren't will sute Mia was bringing J. Long back" & that now your "optimistic" what for you mean?
Just askin cause I wanted to trade him last yr when we had the upper hand in the deal & the might have yielded a 2nd rnd pk.
Now were stuck, have not clout & he's gonna want a ton of cash, did I mention he's been injurred & his skill set doesn't fit your zone blocking scheme...?

Sug
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Manlaw15 wrote:
At the end of the season i thought there was no way Miami brings back Jake Long. Now I'm a little more optimistic because I feel Philbin will want to spread this offense out next season. Fact is Miami will bring in at least two new WRs and at least a good receiving TE whether it's through the draft or FA. Last thing Miami wants to do next season is to keep their TE at home because our LT can't hold his own against the good pass rushers in the NFL.


Word. And Welcome to the boards, Manlaw!


Hi Manlaw
When you said you there was no way "Mia was brings back J. Long" & that now your "optimistic" what for you mean?
Just askin cause I wanted to trade him last yr when we had the upper hand in the deal & the might have yielded a 2nd rnd pk.
Now were stuck, have not clout & he's gonna want a ton of cash, did I mention he's been injured & his skill set doesn't fit your zone blocking scheme...?

Sug

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skatewood2


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manlaw,
I would love to bring JL back if we can get him for a good price, maybe he will give us a hometown discount. But I agree with SUG that he doesn't fit our system and that has been his problem this past season. That and he has been injured a lot the last couple of years. Maybe those injuries will help net us a discount but I don't know. The problem is that there are teams out there that has a system that he fits better in and they will probably be more willing to drop a ton of cash on JL than I am.

I do agree with you though that if he did come back that it would be nice to know that our LT can handle the pass rushers.

Can JL can play RT?
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
Manlaw,
I would love to bring JL back if we can get him for a good price, maybe he will give us a hometown discount. But I agree with SUG that he doesn't fit our system and that has been his problem this past season. That and he has been injured a lot the last couple of years. Maybe those injuries will help net us a discount but I don't know. The problem is that there are teams out there that has a system that he fits better in and they will probably be more willing to drop a ton of cash on JL than I am.

I do agree with you though that if he did come back that it would be nice to know that our LT can handle the pass rushers.

Can JL can play RT?


Here's the thing in blk & wht.
J. Long is a better option than J. Martin at LT.
But J. Long is still not "a Good Option" & beyond that no way do I tie a 4 yr anchor around my neck at 50 Mill.
I'd rather draft a 1st rnd LOT.

Benefits of drafting J. Longs replacement in the 1st rnd:
1) would cost 1/3 of the $$$
2). can target a skillset that actually fits our scheme
3). would be healthy to start gm #1
4). would free up cash assets over 3 yrs
5). addresses the most imp Oline position protecting our #1 asset.

just the basics
sug
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skatewood2


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:

J. Long is a better option than J. Martin at LT.
But J. Long is still not "a Good Option"


Benefits of drafting J. Longs replacement in the 1st rnd:
1) would cost 1/3 of the $$$
2). can target a skillset that actually fits our scheme
3). would be healthy to start gm #1
4). would free up cash assets over 3 yrs
5). addresses the most imp Oline position protecting our #1 asset.

just the basics
sug


SUG,
I don't really agree with either of the bolded points.
- I think that Martin did a good job in limited time at LT, he spent the offseason and half the season learning a new position as you just don't change sides of the line and succeed. That and I think with an offseason in the weight room will significantly upgrade his performance next season.
- JL is still a good option as even though he doesn't fit the season perfectly, he is still one of the top OT's in the NFL and he will succeed in any system that he plays in.

Now with that said, I agree that I don't want to pay JL top LT money as he isn't worth that to us. But I also do not want to draft an OT in the 1st round when we can possibly get the top OG (which is extremely important), one of the top CB's, or a pass rush DE. All of which are extremely important needs. If we can bring JL back at a somewhat reasonable contract than I am all for it. My question is can we move him to RT if Martin can improve leaps and bounds in the strength department?
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
SUG wrote:

J. Long is a better option than J. Martin at LT.
But J. Long is still not "a Good Option"


Benefits of drafting J. Longs replacement in the 1st rnd:
1) would cost 1/3 of the $$$
2). can target a skillset that actually fits our scheme
3). would be healthy to start gm #1
4). would free up cash assets over 3 yrs
5). addresses the most imp Oline position protecting our #1 asset.

just the basics
sug


SUG,
I don't really agree with either of the bolded points.
- I think that Martin did a good job in limited time at LT, he spent the offseason and half the season learning a new position as you just don't change sides of the line and succeed. That and I think with an offseason in the weight room will significantly upgrade his performance next season.
- JL is still a good option as even though he doesn't fit the season perfectly, he is still one of the top OT's in the NFL and he will succeed in any system that he plays in.

Now with that said, I agree that I don't want to pay JL top LT money as he isn't worth that to us. But I also do not want to draft an OT in the 1st round when we can possibly get the top OG (which is extremely important), one of the top CB's, or a pass rush DE. All of which are extremely important needs. If we can bring JL back at a somewhat reasonable contract than I am all for it. My question is can we move him to RT if Martin can improve leaps and bounds in the strength department?



I have not seen anything in J. Martins game that indicates he will ever be a high quality starting LT.

I will never get on board with drafting a OG in the 1st rnd. To me that's like drafting a RB in the 1st rnd.
LT/RT & OC are a different story however.

What would be so bad about drafting a higher talent than J. Martin as a bookend OT ???
Garner is the ultimate back up but that is all, send J. Martin back if he cant beat out a rookie 1st rndr OT.

Quality OTs are way harder to identify & acquire than OGs.
Hell - a percentage OGs had aspirations of playing OT but werent athletic enough so they convert much easier.

sug
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Manlaw15


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:


Hi Manlaw
When you said you "weren't will sute Mia was bringing J. Long back" & that now your "optimistic" what for you mean?
Just askin cause I wanted to trade him last yr when we had the upper hand in the deal & the might have yielded a 2nd rnd pk.
Now were stuck, have not clout & he's gonna want a ton of cash, did I mention he's been injurred & his skill set doesn't fit your zone blocking scheme...?

Sug


sorry about that Sug,

When J Long went down during the season i thought for sure Miami wouldn't bring him back because Miami is going to use the majority of the cap space to revamp that offense and like Skatewood said J Long would want top dollar most likely and is a BIG injury concern. Plus J Long is always going to look like an average at best LT in the zone blocking scheme. Those were the reason why I thought Miami would let Long test the market.

I probably used the wrong word when i said optimistic. What I should have said was skeptical or unsure about my prediction because Miami will spend some money bringing in playmakers at WR and TE that they need a good anchor at LT to protect Tannehill's blind side.

BTW glad to be aboard and thanx for the welcomes everyone.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From time to time i find ideal uses for time machines. One that strikes me now is to go back to before kick off of the Patriots game. Oh ... those where good times. Back then life was good .............. @ Left Tackle ... no consistent talk of drafting one with our first pick. There was even a collective sigh of relief in the air because back then we all saw that Left Tackle was Jonathan Martin's stronger position. Then it happened. That rookie had the audacity to have a bad game against the AFC's Super Bowl representative (puke)

Now we are crossing our fingers hoping we tag Jake Long or draft a LT early. Jonathan Martin had ONE BAD GAME @ LT

Here's the thing about Jake Long (to the best of my TV perspective)
He seems to operate on Superman level when he can identify his defensive assignment (defender) pre snap. When he gets assigned a space and has to identify the defender attacking his assigned space after the snap, he puts his glasses back on very fast. Some have mentioned they expect him to be average in this offense. We should be so lucky.

It's short sighted to close the book on a rookie who had played two positions in his rookie season. He will work, grow and improve on a decent season .... considering. He's playing next to players that don't fit the system and are attempting to fit for the 1st time. That is an extremely adverse situation. I just don't hand him the job but I don't just take it away from him either. And I definitely don't sign JAke Long. He falls in the category of been there done that and doing it again will be worse.
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