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Joe Flacco's Legacy
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thebeyonder


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of Flacco's throws are elite though I don't know if he is.

If he wins the SB he's as good as Eli Manning.



Laughing


Last edited by thebeyonder on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We'll agree to disagree then.


There's really nothing to disagree on. Flacco played poorly and did little to nothing himself to be in the position to win that game. He didn't put together a drive. He did make a decent throw that should have been caught. You just didn't word that true/false properly.

Quote:
I said he's elevated his play in the playoffs over the course of the last 3 years which spans 7 games. You're sticking to 1/7 games in which he didn't play well. You're not arguing any specific issue, you're focusing on one thing as if that disproves me. The issue at hand is whether or not Flacco elevates his game in the playoffs, and the past 3 years as a whole shows he does. You picking out 1 out of 7 games to say otherwise is a terrible argument.

I don't think because he played well in 1 game against an overmatched opponent and poorly in another game you can lump that year together and include it with 2 other years where he has played better. That is where we can agree to disagree.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
Quote:
We'll agree to disagree then.


There's really nothing to disagree on. Flacco played poorly.


We're agreeing to disagree about him having them in position to win the game.

Quote:
I don't think because he played well in 1 game against an overmatched opponent and poorly in another game you can lump that year together and include it with 2 other years where he has played better. That is where we can agree to disagree.


You're discounting a great performance just because you want to. It doesn't work that way.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Mossburg wrote:
Quote:
We'll agree to disagree then.


There's really nothing to disagree on. Flacco played poorly.


We're agreeing to disagree about him having them in position to win the game.

Quote:
I don't think because he played well in 1 game against an overmatched opponent and poorly in another game you can lump that year together and include it with 2 other years where he has played better. That is where we can agree to disagree.


You're discounting a great performance just because you want to. It doesn't work that way.


Sorry about the 1st quote, I edited it before you made your post.

BmoreTerp said he thought Flacco was scared and rattled. That to me is evidence of a guy not being ready for that kind of game, regardless of what he did the week before. Yesterday, and even last year, was a guy who was ready to play in that kind of game.
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, when it comes to QB's legacy is tied to Superbowls. That's just the way it is. Unless Flacco can wrap this magical run up with a Superbowl I really don't think it matters in the long run. I was not very impressed with Flacco in the Broncos game, but was highly impressed with him during the 2nd half of the Patriots game (even though their defense was God awful).

I'm still not 100% sold on Flacco at this point.
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RavensDefense3


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

l3lind golfer wrote:
IMO, when it comes to QB's legacy is tied to Superbowls. That's just the way it is. Unless Flacco can wrap this magical run up with a Superbowl I really don't think it matters in the long run. I was not very impressed with Flacco in the Broncos game, but was highly impressed with him during the 2nd half of the Patriots game (even though their defense was God awful).

I'm still not 100% sold on Flacco at this point.
What were you not impressed with? Just wondering.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
BmoreTerp said he thought Flacco was scared and rattled. That to me is evidence of a guy not being ready for that kind of game, regardless of what he did the week before. Yesterday, and even last year, was a guy who was ready to play in that kind of game.


I'm agreeing he didn't have a good game against the Steelers.

That doesn't negate his performance the week before.

And therefore doesn't negate that entire year.

He's stepped his game up in the playoffs over the last 3 years as a whole. This isn't arguable. The tape and the stats show it.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
will people still remember him as the guy who elevated his game in the playoffs for 2 season? Is it not fair to say that I want to see more before I join this bandwagon?
And that's all fine and good. But my point is that you're misrepresenting his playoff performance as it stands now by equivocating it with Jake DeLOLHomme's 2 good runs in 3 years or even putting it as just '2 good runs' and then harping on end about how he played as a rookie or when he was playing with one good leg 3 years ago, for example.

I'll put it this way: Over the past 3 years, Joe Flacco has played 7 playoff games. In those, he's played great in 5 of them (@KC, @NE, vs. IND, @DEN, and @NE), he was good but not spectacular in one game (vs. HOU) and he was bad in one game (@PIT). You've more or less been treating that one bad game against PIT like it cancels out the great games he has so that he's still something of a question mark on the question of the postseason, and I think that's a false equivalence.

I've always seen a lot of Eli Manning in Joe Flacco, in that they both have aloof personalities that have made people question their leadership qualities because they're not 'rah rah' wannabe speechifying Congressmen, they're both prone to serious WTF moments and throws, they can fall victim to consistency issues, but they both exude a calming temperment that allows them to play well in tight moments. That was true of Joe before these playoffs and it didn't just have to do with last year's playoffs, either. Throughout his career, regular season or playoffs, he's a guy who has always had the ability to shake off whatever else has happened before, reset in tight moments and make some big throws. It's Eli Manning with maybe some Ben Roethlisberger mixed in. He's probably not going to challenge the big guys during the regular season in the major statistical categories, though it should be noted that both Philip Rivers and Drew Brees went from good to great numbers after moving on from Cam Cameron and so it's possible that it could happen with Flacco as well. But he's a guy who can hang with the best in this business and we'll never be overmatched going into a game with Flacco at the helm.

Speaking of Cam Cameron, it's pretty clear that moving from Cam Cameron to Jim Caldwell at OC was a season saving move and the difference in Flacco's play is noticeable, as is the the difference in the approach the offense is taking. Flacco since Caldwell was elevated to OC: 283.2 passing yards a game, 8.3 YPA, 12 touchdowns, 1 INT.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Mossburg wrote:
will people still remember him as the guy who elevated his game in the playoffs for 2 season? Is it not fair to say that I want to see more before I join this bandwagon?
And that's all fine and good. But my point is that you're misrepresenting his playoff performance as it stands now by equivocating it with Jake DeLOLHomme's 2 good runs in 3 years or even putting it as just '2 good runs' and then harping on end about how he played as a rookie or when he was playing with one good leg 3 years ago, for example.

I'll put it this way: Over the past 3 years, Joe Flacco has played 7 playoff games. In those, he's played great in 5 of them (@KC, @NE, vs. IND, @DEN, and @NE), he was good but not spectacular in one game (vs. HOU) and he was bad in one game (@PIT). You've more or less been treating that one bad game against PIT like it cancels out the great games he has so that he's still something of a question mark on the question of the postseason, and I think that's a false equivalence.

I've always seen a lot of Eli Manning in Joe Flacco, in that they both have aloof personalities that have made people question their leadership qualities because they're not 'rah rah' wannabe speechifying Congressmen, they're both prone to serious WTF moments and throws, they can fall victim to consistency issues, but they both exude a calming temperment that allows them to play well in tight moments. That was true of Joe before these playoffs and it didn't just have to do with last year's playoffs, either. Throughout his career, regular season or playoffs, he's a guy who has always had the ability to shake off whatever else has happened before, reset in tight moments and make some big throws. It's Eli Manning with maybe some Ben Roethlisberger mixed in. He's probably not going to challenge the big guys during the regular season in the major statistical categories, though it should be noted that both Philip Rivers and Drew Brees went from good to great numbers after moving on from Cam Cameron and so it's possible that it could happen with Flacco as well. But he's a guy who can hang with the best in this business and we'll never be overmatched going into a game with Flacco at the helm.

Speaking of Cam Cameron, it's pretty clear that moving from Cam Cameron to Jim Caldwell at OC was a season saving move and the difference in Flacco's play is noticeable, as is the the difference in the approach the offense is taking. Flacco since Caldwell was elevated to OC: 283.2 passing yards a game, 8.3 YPA, 12 touchdowns, 1 INT.


Thank you for putting it better than I apparently have been.
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensDefense3 wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
IMO, when it comes to QB's legacy is tied to Superbowls. That's just the way it is. Unless Flacco can wrap this magical run up with a Superbowl I really don't think it matters in the long run. I was not very impressed with Flacco in the Broncos game, but was highly impressed with him during the 2nd half of the Patriots game (even though their defense was God awful).

I'm still not 100% sold on Flacco at this point.
What were you not impressed with? Just wondering.
Flacco did not consistently play a good game, the Ravens had a very difficult time sustaining any drives throughout the game. With that said, Flacco made some beautiful and timely throws during the entire game, but outside of big plays (Torrey Smith TD's, Jones bomb TD, etc); I didn't feel Flacco was consistently good.

I just feel like, if you live by big plays, you die by big plays. I'm curious to see how many of those huge plays they will be able to get against the Niners defense who will have two weeks to prepare.

I'm not trying to down Flacco, he's putting in work right now and he was really good last postseason. He does deserve a lot of credit, but in the Broncos game in particular, I wasn't very impressed.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll put it this way: Over the past 3 years, Joe Flacco has played 7 playoff games. In those, he's played great in 5 of them (@KC, @NE, vs. IND, @DEN, and @NE), he was good but not spectacular in one game (vs. HOU) and he was bad in one game (@PIT). You've more or less been treating that one bad game against PIT like it cancels out the great games he has so that he's still something of a question mark on the question of the postseason, and I think that's a false equivalence.


No, what I am saying is this.

Joe Flacco has played better than he has in the regular season the last 2 years. I refuse to add the 3rd year because 1 good game and 1 bad game does not constitute as a good postseason (the part there seems to be disagreement about). I am also pointing out that this may not even be anything as big a deal because he still has a lot of work to do (hence the Delhomme reference).

You're also misinterpreting me if I am questioning him in the postseason. I am simply arguing a very specific thing, I don't think Joe Flacco elevated his game the last THREE years, because 1 good game and 1 bad game three years ago I refuse to lump in with his fantastic play the last 2 years.

If we're talking about his ENTIRE career, it's obviously not true. If we're talking the last 3 years? Absolutely for the last 2, not for 3 years ago (IMO at least, Flaccomania disagrees). Most importantly, the posts made on the 2nd page were general statements about Flacco elevating his game in the playoffs, nothing specific about when, which implied to me as Flacco must be some type of clutch monster. If they said, "Flacco has really elevated his game in the playoffs recently," as I said, I would have simply nodded in agreement.

Quote:
If he wins the SuperBowl, he's Eli Manning; good regular season QB who just elevates to the next level in the playoffs.


Quote:
He's not that great in the regular season, but elevates it to the next level in the POs. And that's really important.


This post right here is perfectly put.

Quote:
It will depend upon if he wins in 2 weeks. But I do believe his performance in these playoffs has upped his rankings overall.

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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Yeah, I'd drop 2010 too. Considering the fact that it was Flacco's best regular season, and the fact that Pittsburgh was his first or second worst game of the entire year, I wouldn't argue for it. I'd say he started to make his turnaround that postseason, but it didn't go into full effect until the next year.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eli-like, pretty much that if he wins the SB
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