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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 10672
Location: Spokane, WA
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| NewNutz wrote: | | sp6488 wrote: | | NewNutz wrote: | | BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | NewNutz wrote: | | bungleodeon wrote: | Oh come on people, he's not the only one. The fact anyone is acting surprised about this is laughable. Guess what, Barry Bonds was roiding...  |
I'm not surprised in the least. However i also believe that probably at least 90% of the league uses ped's. And someone here said it was 3 months and not one that lewis was out for. Even so, a torn tricep is normally a season ending injury. Anyone who thinks lewis and suggs weren't using ped's to recover is just in complete denial. Not saying they're the only ones, cuz like i said, it's probably most of the league. But come on, could it be any more obvious? |
While I agree that most players are likely on some form of PED's, I still don't like the premise of focusing on Ravens players who recovered from injuries on an accelerated timetable. With Lewis, at least there is this (highly dubious) article, so there's at least some smoke. But Suggs? If we're going to declare Suggs a definite user because he came back and played as a shell of himself 7 and a half months after partially tearing his Achilles, why aren't we also saying Adrian Peterson definitely juiced, because he came back from a torn ACL to post a 2,000 yard season within 8 months? Or Justin Smith, coming back from his own triceps tear within just a couple of weeks? Or Wes Welker, with his own ACL tear causing him to get back in time for the start of the next season? Or Ben Roethlisberger, who bounces off of injuries like he's a zombie?
I'm not inclined to care in general what these players are putting into their own bodies because the whole process is so litigious and arbitrary to begin with, but I'm not sure why Terrell Suggs deserves special mention in any of this. |
well obviously you wouldn't like people focusing on the ravens. They're your team. The only reason i'm even focusing on them is because of the recent article. and as far as peterson goes, i definitely think he used. I'm a patriots fan (not bitter by the way, the ravens wanted that game more and completely kicked their [inappropriate/removed]), and i'll be the first one to say that welker probably used to get back in time, and brandon spikes got suspended recently for using hgh i believe (last season i think). Jermaine cunningham also got suspended this year. That guy was obviously using. He sucked for 3 seasons and then all of the sudden early this season he turns into a beast. I'm not in denial about guys on the patriots using PED's, like i said, i think at least 90% of the league does it. But to think that lewis and suggs came back that quickly without using is ridiculous. and to think that all lewis used was deer antler or whatever the hell it is, is just turning a blind eye as well. If you look at the nfl and the guys that get caught and suspended, it's always lower level guys, never their big stars and stud players. The nfl doesn't want to suspend those guys and their testing policy is a joke. |
The Williamses, Shawn Merriman, the Seahawks guys, Brian Cushing, etc.
Plenty of big name guys have been suspended. |
those guys aren't legitimate studs. I'm talking about guys like peterson, ray lewis, etc. as far as your examples go though, both of the williamses appealed and won, and didn't miss a game, as did richard sherman of the seahawks. I wouldn't exactly call brandon browner a stud player. Cushing is borderline. Merriman when he got suspended was probably the closest thing to a stud, and he sucked when he came back and is now out of the league i believe. Again, i mean the real big name guys. The ones who bring fans and revenue to the league. Would i be surprised if a guy like tom brady or peyton manning got caught and suspended? Absolutely. but i wouldn't be surprised that they were using, just that the nfl would actually suspend a guy like that. It will never happen. that's why peterson and other guys of his calliber will never get caught. |
What???
Sherman is the best CB in the league.
Merriman (at the time) was the best pass rusher in the league.
Cushing was one of the best young ILB's in the NFL.
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nagahide13
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 10560
Location: Stumptown
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.
Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage.
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WhackyPlague
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 3859
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| nagahide13 wrote: | You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.
Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage. |
Right. And this IGF-1 that the NFL supposedly bans? It's in milk, fish, and poultry. So unless NFL players can't drink milk or eat chicken, this is a non-story. |
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sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 6262
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| WhackyPlague wrote: | | nagahide13 wrote: | You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.
Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage. |
Right. And this IGF-1 that the NFL supposedly bans? It's in milk, fish, and poultry. So unless NFL players can't drink milk or eat chicken, this is a non-story. |
Well, the NFL does ban IGF-1, but apparently it would have to be injected to lead to out of normal levels that would show up in a test.
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nagahide13
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 10560
Location: Stumptown
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| sp6488 wrote: | | WhackyPlague wrote: | | nagahide13 wrote: | You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.
Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage. |
Right. And this IGF-1 that the NFL supposedly bans? It's in milk, fish, and poultry. So unless NFL players can't drink milk or eat chicken, this is a non-story. |
Well, the NFL does ban IGF-1, but apparently it would have to be injected to lead to out of normal levels that would show up in a test. |
And there's a reason for that... because unless you're actually getting ridiculously abnormal levels of it, it doesn't really do anything. I mean, we're talking about an under the tongue spray made from deer antlers.
I almost expect SWATS to start offering bleedings to get the "anti-athletic humours" out of your body.
This whole story, and the related Alabama SWATS "scandal" is just advertising for the company.
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| LION KING wrote: | | I actually feel nothing anymore ! |
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 10672
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| nagahide13 wrote: | | sp6488 wrote: | | WhackyPlague wrote: | | nagahide13 wrote: | You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.
Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage. |
Right. And this IGF-1 that the NFL supposedly bans? It's in milk, fish, and poultry. So unless NFL players can't drink milk or eat chicken, this is a non-story. |
Well, the NFL does ban IGF-1, but apparently it would have to be injected to lead to out of normal levels that would show up in a test. |
And there's a reason for that... because unless you're actually getting ridiculously abnormal levels of it, it doesn't really do anything. I mean, we're talking about an under the tongue spray made from deer antlers.
I almost expect SWATS to start offering bleedings to get the "anti-athletic humours" out of your body.
This whole story, and the related Alabama SWATS "scandal" is just advertising for the company. |
Exactly, which is why Ray is just laughing it off. The company took the most opportune time to get their product on a national stage, even if meant attempting to derail a man's career. The sick part is that people are actually buying this lol
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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tylerdouglass
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 14168
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| nagahide13 wrote: | | This whole story, and the related Alabama SWATS "scandal" is just advertising for the company. |
That's how I'm seeing it as well. The more I think and read about it, the clearer it becomes.
Unfortunately, people love eye catching headlines and all they're thinking is "OMG RAY LEWIS HAS BEEN USING ROIDS HIS WHOLE CAREER! HE'S A CHEAT! A PHONEY!"
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RavensDefense3
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 889
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't Ray say that the guy who's accusing him has been sued like 5 times? Maybe I misinterpreted it, correct me if I'm wrong.
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sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 6262
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| NewNutz wrote: | | sp6488 wrote: | | NewNutz wrote: | | BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | NewNutz wrote: | | bungleodeon wrote: | | Oh come on people, he's not the only one. The fact anyone is acting surprised about this is laughable. Guess what, Barry Bonds was roiding... |
I'm not surprised in the least. However i also believe that probably at least 90% of the league uses ped's. And someone here said it was 3 months and not one that lewis was out for. Even so, a torn tricep is normally a season ending injury. Anyone who thinks lewis and suggs weren't using ped's to recover is just in complete denial. Not saying they're the only ones, cuz like i said, it's probably most of the league. But come on, could it be any more obvious? |
While I agree that most players are likely on some form of PED's, I still don't like the premise of focusing on Ravens players who recovered from injuries on an accelerated timetable. With Lewis, at least there is this (highly dubious) article, so there's at least some smoke. But Suggs? If we're going to declare Suggs a definite user because he came back and played as a shell of himself 7 and a half months after partially tearing his Achilles, why aren't we also saying Adrian Peterson definitely juiced, because he came back from a torn ACL to post a 2,000 yard season within 8 months? Or Justin Smith, coming back from his own triceps tear within just a couple of weeks? Or Wes Welker, with his own ACL tear causing him to get back in time for the start of the next season? Or Ben Roethlisberger, who bounces off of injuries like he's a zombie?
I'm not inclined to care in general what these players are putting into their own bodies because the whole process is so litigious and arbitrary to begin with, but I'm not sure why Terrell Suggs deserves special mention in any of this. |
well obviously you wouldn't like people focusing on the ravens. They're your team. The only reason i'm even focusing on them is because of the recent article. and as far as peterson goes, i definitely think he used. I'm a patriots fan (not bitter by the way, the ravens wanted that game more and completely kicked their [inappropriate/removed]), and i'll be the first one to say that welker probably used to get back in time, and brandon spikes got suspended recently for using hgh i believe (last season i think). Jermaine cunningham also got suspended this year. That guy was obviously using. He sucked for 3 seasons and then all of the sudden early this season he turns into a beast. I'm not in denial about guys on the patriots using PED's, like i said, i think at least 90% of the league does it. But to think that lewis and suggs came back that quickly without using is ridiculous. and to think that all lewis used was deer antler or whatever the hell it is, is just turning a blind eye as well. If you look at the nfl and the guys that get caught and suspended, it's always lower level guys, never their big stars and stud players. The nfl doesn't want to suspend those guys and their testing policy is a joke. |
The Williamses, Shawn Merriman, the Seahawks guys, Brian Cushing, etc.
Plenty of big name guys have been suspended. |
those guys aren't legitimate studs. I'm talking about guys like peterson, ray lewis, etc. as far as your examples go though, both of the williamses appealed and won, and didn't miss a game, as did richard sherman of the seahawks. I wouldn't exactly call brandon browner a stud player. Cushing is borderline. Merriman when he got suspended was probably the closest thing to a stud, and he sucked when he came back and is now out of the league i believe. Again, i mean the real big name guys. The ones who bring fans and revenue to the league. Would i be surprised if a guy like tom brady or peyton manning got caught and suspended? Absolutely. but i wouldn't be surprised that they were using, just that the nfl would actually suspend a guy like that. It will never happen. that's why peterson and other guys of his calliber will never get caught. |
They had a long, drawn-out appeal that went to federal court IIRC, but they ended up serving their suspensions.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/20/pat-williams-is-available-to-be-signed/
Sherman still had his name thrown out there and likely missed the probowl because of it. Brandon Browner may not be a 'stud,' but he's certainly no scrub either.
Cushing was immediately coming off of a DROTY season. Do you not think that's something the NFL doesn't want tainted? The AP went back and revoted on the award.
Merriman certainly was a stud. He wasn't just "the closest thing."
Just because nobody of that caliber has been caught doesn't mean the NFL wouldn't fine and suspend them if they were under the league substance abuse policy. You're conveniently ignoring three items (beyond simply that the results of no "studs" being caught does not mean that nobody is trying to catch them):
1) The stud players have more to lose. Tom Brady has far more to lose than Joe Schmo, thus he is likely to either stay away from PED's entirely, as the risk outweighs the reward, or do a far better (and likely more expensive) job of masking his use.
2) The stud players likely have less of a need. I'm not going to get into the debate of what is or isn't natural, but one cannot deny that a fringe player is far more likely to use PED's and use them in a reckless manner. If a 7th round safety lacking the natural gifts of a Sean Taylor is clinging to a PS spot, I would imagine there is a lot more temptation to inject himself full of PED's than an Earl Thomas, Ed Reed or Troy P.
3) Follow the money. If the NFL were doing its best to cover up test results, or avoid testing, of star players there are numerous lab techs, administrative officials, etc. that would have to be complicit. Furthermore, I'm sure any one of them could get a lot more money and fame by going public with a tell-all insiders account of the NFL's cover up.
I'm not saying what you propose is stupid or impossible, that would be foolish and naive on my part. It is, however, somewhat of a shaky conspiracy theory.
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| Tzimisce wrote: | I'm sorry you're drowning in a sea of delusion.
I won't be sorry when the Ravens finish 8-8. |
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johnnyboy8102
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 698
Location: Motown
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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With the inability to ingest the banned substance orally and the ridiculously small amount in the product this is a non story to me.
The Ross character is about as legit as $3 bill.....
http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74255403/
Take a look at this joker's video on nfl.com.
He didn't provide any video,audio, receipts, etc that he said he had.
This guy came out to make his money and he accomplished it. |
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Nabbs4u
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 19316
Location: Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't matter a banned substances is still a banned substance. Whether this is a publicity plow or not makes no difference. This is a prime example why the NFLPA is dragging their feet with HGH and other banned substances testings. No one especially fans truely want to know 1/2- 3/4 of the league is probably doping. God forbid Ray Ray is doping to make a last run at a title? God forbid AP is found out to have done the same with.his miraculous return? Pick any of the Golden boys of the NFL and imagine the reprecustions if it's known they might have doped as well?  People making excuses as to the effects of DAS or assuming that was the only thing possibly taken is comical.
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Keleth
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2597
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| nagahide13 wrote: | You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.
Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage. |
You would be surprised I think what athletes would use in desparation to come back especially in their last season.
As I said earlier it is a non story but you cannot just laugh off the idea an athlete would use it. |
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WhackyPlague
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 3859
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Nabbs4u wrote: | | Doesn't matter a banned substances is still a banned substance. |
The deer antler spray has less of the banned substance than a glass of milk does. It's not an issue. |
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Xfaxtor
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 12289
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| WhackyPlague wrote: | | Nabbs4u wrote: | | Doesn't matter a banned substances is still a banned substance. |
The deer antler spray has less of the banned substance than a glass of milk does. It's not an issue. |
Lmao, this. Cant believe we re still discussing this. |
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Bednarik60
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 30650
Location: Jortland, Oregon<3
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Xfaxtor wrote: | | WhackyPlague wrote: | | Nabbs4u wrote: | | Doesn't matter a banned substances is still a banned substance. |
The deer antler spray has less of the banned substance than a glass of milk does. It's not an issue. |
Lmao, this. Cant believe we re still discussing this. |
cant believe people cant believe were still discussing this.
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