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Can someone dominate the NFL like Bolt/LBJ/Messi/etc.?
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Dolphins82


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canucks9314 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:


Not even close. Did you see his defense against Kobe 2 weeks ago? That's the defense he's capable of playing when he actually tries. He's just so incredibly lazy. Almost all the threes people hit on us are because Wade forgets about his man. The perception that LeBron is a better defender than Wade is so false. I've seen both of them and when they both try it's Wade by a decent sized margin. He's always been the better shot-blocker but he's the better on-ball defender as well. He has more lateral agility and has an incredible wingspan to bother players.


Lebron is better. That's why when kobe got hot they put Lebron on him. Obviously, Lebron is regarded as the better defender by his own coach. Wade got abused by Westbrook when they tried to put him on him last year.
HAHAHA, did you see what Kobe said after the game? After the first half, he started to use more screens to free himself up. Also are you forgetting that he also drained a couple of buckets on James as well. Kobe got Wade twice (1. went backdoor for the alley 2. gave him a little step to create space), other than that Wade played near perfect defense on Kobe. When you see Kobe draining a 3 with a hand in his face....that's is not poor defense, that is simply a superstar being a superstar (similar to Brady/Rodgers/Manning throwing a perfectly timed/placed back shoulder pass). Wade also blocked Kobe's in spite of Bryant trying his hardest to double clutch and lean back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr26RCjVn68 <----2:26


______

To answer the OP....I don't think so.

You'd basically need a two way player. And not just any two way player, it'd have to be a Elite QB & either elite rusher/safety.

Basically Aaron Rodgers infused with Ed Reed or Ware.

I don't see that happening any time soon Laughing
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dolphins82 wrote:
canucks9314 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
seminoles1 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
LeBron does not defend centers and PF's at an elite level, don't be silly.
he did pretty well against Perkins during stretches where the Heat didn't even have a true center on the court.
I could defend Kendrick Perkins at an elite level.

People are overstating LeBron's defensive ability in this thread. The guy is a very valuable defensive player because of his ability to adequately defend 1-4 and some horrible 5s, but he does not defend a lot of players at an elite level. He's good at forcing his man into held defense and he's a very good weakside defender, but he's not an elite defender.


Yup. Been watching his defense since he came to Miami to see who's the better on-ball defender between him and Wade and it's Wade by a decent sized margin. Well when they actually give a damn anyway.


Wade is much worse on-ball. wtf?
lmao....no.

To be honest if Norris Cole were about ~3-4 inches higher he'd be 5x the on-ball defender James is.
Wade (if the effort were a given) is a much, much better on-ball defender than James.

However....LeBron is an ELITE team defender (which is far more important), just look at the game against the Lakers.

His ability to switch (in a literal sense), from guarding a SF, negotiating the pick, recover, guard the PG (or PF), hedging, trapping, getting back on D, helping, fronting....etc is all amazing and done at a high level.

He can be the master of nuances at times. I think the football equivalent would be like a safety taking away read #1 and 2, and then closing out on a scrambling QB so his teammates can make the play. Or a secondary providing their rushers coverage sacks. Too far of an analogy? Think Laughing


idk, from what I've seen, I think Lebron could stay in front of his man better if he wants, but also tries to stay out of foul trouble. Wade just doesn't care and expects the refs to bail him out.

My point about Durant attempting less FGs than Lebron (which is true this season) wasn't to discredit Lebron, but just in response to the "Lebron could score more if he wanted to thing." Durant is efficient off the ball, and you could make the same claim about him - all he'd have to do is take over Westbrook's chucking responsibilities. Lebron may be the best in the league, but he's not unique in forgoing a higher scoring avg to better his team.
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DreDay80


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canucks9314 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:


Not even close. Did you see his defense against Kobe 2 weeks ago? That's the defense he's capable of playing when he actually tries. He's just so incredibly lazy. Almost all the threes people hit on us are because Wade forgets about his man. The perception that LeBron is a better defender than Wade is so false. I've seen both of them and when they both try it's Wade by a decent sized margin. He's always been the better shot-blocker but he's the better on-ball defender as well. He has more lateral agility and has an incredible wingspan to bother players.


Lebron is better. That's why when kobe got hot they put Lebron on him. Obviously, Lebron is regarded as the better defender by his own coach. Wade got abused by Westbrook when they tried to put him on him last year.


Or maybe they put LeBron because LeBron wanted to guard Kobe? Kobe got "hot" if you could even call it that on Ray Allen, NOT Wade. You mean the Wade that was on 1 knee?
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mozwanted


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think about it Adrian Peterson is alot like messi. HE dominates.

Only argument is peterson doesnt have a ring but that is because of his cast. MEssi has some of the best players around him helping him win games. If you gave Peterson and solid defense, and a matt hasselbeck like QB or perhaps even jake delhomme in his prime this would be a championship team every year.
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Brown_Mamba


Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
It's impossible simply because of the nature of the sport.

The only way I can see it being close is with a defensive lineman, and I don't know if it's really possible.

Quote:
He's an incredible scorer, he's an incredible passer, he's an incredible rebounder, he's an incredible defensive player, and he just controls the game in every facet.


That's going pretty far. He's definitely not an "incredible rebounder", and although he's definitely a contributor on defense, he's not an "incredible defensive player". An incredible defensive player is someone like Andre Iguodala, or prime Eric Snow or Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier, or Ben Wallace, who were asked to do it and did it every single game.


Actually Lebron is an elite defender, he just doesn't get credit for it. This guy single handedly shut down Derrick Rose in their 2011 series against the Bulls. If it wasn't for his defense, nobody would have been able to stop Rose. I would argue that they probably would have won that series.

But they still would have lost to my Mavericks in the finals Cool
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sportjames23


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
It's impossible simply because of the nature of the sport.

The only way I can see it being close is with a defensive lineman, and I don't know if it's really possible.

Quote:
He's an incredible scorer, he's an incredible passer, he's an incredible rebounder, he's an incredible defensive player, and he just controls the game in every facet.


That's going pretty far. He's definitely not an "incredible rebounder", and although he's definitely a contributor on defense, he's not an "incredible defensive player". An incredible defensive player is someone like Andre Iguodala, or prime Eric Snow or Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier, or Ben Wallace, who were asked to do it and did it every single game.


Nor does Lebron have a post game.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Probably not because football is so much more of a team sport than the rest. It's not hard for Lebron James to singlehandedly take over a game because of how continuous it is (i.e. he can realistically touch the ball once every 20ish seconds), same with soccer, it's a continuous flow so if Messi gets the ball, he can work his magic.

In football though, even if, say, there was a receiver who was a complete freak, his success is still so dependent on the QB, the OL, and the playcall. The other guys you mentioned can freelance more and turn their game into more of a one-on-one battle (Messi a bit less so) than a football player could.


This pretty much says at all

Just look at Cam Newton. Individually his numbers are amazing for his first two years in the league but he doesn't have a single winning season to show for it

IN basketball an individual player can dominate a game far more than in football

Although even in basketball it still takes a team effort to win a championship which is why Jordan didn't win anything before Pippen

I say the one guy who if they got their Scottie Pippen that could dominate could be Cam Newton.

As a Falcons fan I don't want to see that happen.


Of course watch out for Russell Wilson as well if they give him a #1 WR.
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mitchconnor


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was correctly answered way back on page two when Hutson was mentioned. No one since has really dominated the NFL.

An interesting aside: reading posts about NBA basketball may actually be more boring than watching NBA basketball. No small feat.
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seminoles1


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sportjames23 wrote:
Nor does Lebron have a post game.
Well this is absolutely false.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seminoles1 wrote:
sportjames23 wrote:
Nor does Lebron have a post game.
Well this is absolutely false.


Exactly.
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yankee0724


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom cody wrote:
No, because football players have many more players to compete with than those guys you listed.


What does this even mean?
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