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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 9054
Location: White Lake, Mi.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside of O'Brien Schofield and Sam Acho... Who do the Cardinals even have as a reliable pass rusher? Obviously Campbell on the line, but I'm more thinking of LB'ers both inside/out. Not much depth/pass rushing from the positions. I like Washington/Schofield/Acho but theres much to be desired still in terms of getting to the QB and rushing the passer. Schofield is also on a 1 year deal so... that can really throw a wench into how high this team might wanna draft a pass rusher. Though there is a lot of "mid round" talent that can likely develope. I personally like Jamie Collins out of Southern
Miss. a lot also, Smooth on the field. Imo, both make really good selections for this team because I think they could also play ILB as well, which is a major need.

Is the new coaching staff sticking with the 3-4 or are they moving into a transition, or using more hybrid formations?
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 12771
Location: the Arizona desert
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LB's would could be available at #38:

Manti Te'o
Kevin Minter
Sam Montgomery
Khaseem Greene
Arthur Brown

Lots of talent in that area...
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LuckyNumber11


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 5506
Location: Nebraska
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
LB's would could be available at #38:

Manti Te'o
Kevin Minter
Sam Montgomery
Khaseem Greene
Arthur Brown

Lots of talent in that area...


I think it would be awesome if we got Minter or Montgomery.
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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 789
Location: Mesa, AZ
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
LB's would could be available at #38:

Manti Te'o
Kevin Minter
Sam Montgomery
Khaseem Greene
Arthur Brown

Lots of talent in that area...


I think it would be awesome if we got Minter or Montgomery.


I'm not too high on Montgomery.. kid has questions about his motor and work ethic. LSU coaches even put his name up on board for NFL scouts to see as to a list of players with said issues.

Minter or Brown in 2nd for us would be a good grab.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minter or bust

Greene is a 4-3 only

Brown prob too

Don't want manti

Montgomery is 4-3 for me too, but at 38 I could live with him
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sunnysouth


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 478
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ_Fka wrote:
Minter or bust

Greene is a 4-3 only

Brown prob too

Don't want manti

Montgomery is 4-3 for me too, but at 38 I could live with him

If Brown makes it to 38 we run up with the pick.
Doubt it though. Helluva player.
Stay away from Greene.
Brown, Minter, Montgomery,Te'o.
One you did not mention is Ogletree from Georgia.
He might not be as good a scheme fit, but the guy can play and add about 10 lbs easily. Guy built like Tarzan.
As for Montgomery, practice work ethic might have been questioned but if you are questioning his motor, you have not watched him play.
If you are questioning his pass rush moves, you have watched him play.
If a team hired a pass rush specialist to teach some moves.....
Also, if Demontre Moore slips I'll eat my shoes.
Best defensive player on the board, so no way he gets past Phil.
Hell, he won't get past Oak.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why no on Greene? He started at 3 positions on defense plus he's a physical freak... Either ILB, OLB or SS needs to be addressed in the first 3 round.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is too small for 3-4 ilb

Perfect wlb 4-3 ala Derrick brooks, almost a clone physically

Would kill in Tampa 2
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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Location: the Arizona desert
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oregon OLB Dion Jordan's weight dipped to 226 pounds during the 2012 season, but the Duck is already up to 234 after working out.
Jordan hopes to weigh 250 pounds at the Combine in February. Multiple factors played into the senior's drop in weight this season, including a shoulder injury and the notorious pace of Chip Kelly's practices. Regardless, Jordan remained active and strong with his hands. His comfort and space likely projects best to a strongside linebacker position.


http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/131332/dion-jordan

His playing weight last season was 226 and thinks he can get to 250? I bet he comes in around 240 at the most... He better blow away the drills cause he'll be to light for an OLB.
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khodder


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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
LB's would could be available at #38:

Manti Te'o
Kevin Minter
Sam Montgomery
Khaseem Greene
Arthur Brown

Lots of talent in that area...


Purely my opinion on the matter;

1 = I don't want Te'o nor do I think he gets to 38.
2 = Would love Minter.
3 = I am am unsure of the fit of Montgomery in the 34 defense, not sure it suits his style, but I have been wrong before (Aldon Smith)
4 = Greene is overblown as a prospect not a value selection at #38
5 = Love Arthur Brown.
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khodder


Moderator - MVP
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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Location: New New York
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunnysouth wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
Minter or bust

Greene is a 4-3 only

Brown prob too

Don't want manti

Montgomery is 4-3 for me too, but at 38 I could live with him

If Brown makes it to 38 we run up with the pick.
Doubt it though. Helluva player.
Stay away from Greene.
Brown, Minter, Montgomery,Te'o.
One you did not mention is Ogletree from Georgia.
He might not be as good a scheme fit, but the guy can play and add about 10 lbs easily. Guy built like Tarzan.
As for Montgomery, practice work ethic might have been questioned but if you are questioning his motor, you have not watched him play.
If you are questioning his pass rush moves, you have watched him play.
If a team hired a pass rush specialist to teach some moves.....
Also, if Demontre Moore slips I'll eat my shoes.
Best defensive player on the board, so no way he gets past Phil.
Hell, he won't get past Oak.


1 - AVOID AVOID AVOID on Ogletree, fact is this is a linebacker with a safeties mentality. He does not attack the LOS, he does not play physical, he plays tentative around the LOS. He lacks ideal instincts to play the position too. Not a fan at all of Alec.
2 - I don't think Moore reaches the 2nd round, but he will fall a lot furhter than you think, he is a "maxed out" prospect. Not a lot of developing to do there, what you see is what you get. I think he could end up in the early/mid teens.
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khodder


Moderator - MVP
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 50829
Location: New New York
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
Quote:
Oregon OLB Dion Jordan's weight dipped to 226 pounds during the 2012 season, but the Duck is already up to 234 after working out.
Jordan hopes to weigh 250 pounds at the Combine in February. Multiple factors played into the senior's drop in weight this season, including a shoulder injury and the notorious pace of Chip Kelly's practices. Regardless, Jordan remained active and strong with his hands. His comfort and space likely projects best to a strongside linebacker position.


http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/131332/dion-jordan

His playing weight last season was 226 and thinks he can get to 250? I bet he comes in around 240 at the most... He better blow away the drills cause he'll be to light for an OLB.


Taking a guy who is going to have to add 25 pounds from the last time you saw him play is...Interesting to say the least. He was also not that productive in college.
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khodder


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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EJ Manuel - It all depends on what information you gather from the interviews at the combine. He needs to be coached up a bit, he needs to read defenses better and he needs to develop the mental aspects of the game. If you see that coachability and the work ethic in EJ in your time around him he is a guy that you are going to be interested in and intrigued by because he obviously has the physical talent. Should Arizona draft him, in the right spot, if he provides value, if we think he is the best player for this franchise. For me that means you start to consider him in the 3rd round.

The others;

Mike Glennon; He has the arm and the size (needs to pack on a few pounds, but should be able to in an NFL weight room). He looks to make reads well on a pretty consistent basis. His issue is mobility, both inside and outside the pocket. Mike is not going to be someone who is going to extend the play with his legs, you are not going to get him moving or move the pocket around him with a boot action game, it is not a killer, but would be something nice to have. Where his biggest struggles come forth is having to move inside a dirty pocket, with bodies closing in on him Glennon struggles, he does not step into his throws as well, his mechanics break down and his accuracy and zip suffers. Much the same can be said about him under pressure. This can be very tough to teach (See Blaine Gabbert) and can be a huge negative in the NFL.

Matt Barkley; Very smart QB, clean footwork, accuate, but lacks the arm to drive the ball to the sidelines and into small windows. When you combine that with the decision making we saw from him in 2012 you have a very bad concoction. Whether you are getting the 2011 Barkely or the 2012 Barkley is a big question, but in the end neither of them are likely to lead to a top notch QB. If you know you are getting the 2012 version of Barkley you might be willing to take a stab in the upper parts of the 2nd round and look to build up his arm somewhat, but that is a risky proposition and with an offense that wants to drive the ball in the 11-20 yard range on a consistent basis Barkley is not going to prove to be a fit.

Geno Smith; Smart, very hard working, deals well under pressure, has a good arm, not great, throws an incredibly accurate ball, struggles with progressions at times and can stare down targets. By far the most complete QB in the draft, by far the most polished and by far the best QB in the draft. His work habits are what are going to really attract teams at the top of the draft. He is well worth a pick inside the top 10. He is not your perfect prospect, but he is not going to limit you from doing anything with his skillset, and his tendency to stare down receivers may have been a product of his either/or type of offense in college.

If Geno is available at #7 you take him and don't look back, even if you sit him early or even for a full season you draft Geno because passing on a talent like this is not something that is done by a team needing a Quarterback.

Tyler Bray; Big arm, Accurate, very comfortable in the pocket, moves well under pressure, makes reads. Consistency issues, head case, coachability, maturity. Biggest risk reward prospect in the draft and one that possesses amazing upside, but he has a lot of issues mechanically that is going to rely on the ability of him to be coached. Interviews will be absolute key for Bray, if you feel you and your staff can get him to buy in to what you want him to do, if you feel you can get him to mature as a person and as a leader you have a guy that you really need to jump all over in the draft. A mature Tyler Bray who is coachable is the best QB in the draft. Too many maturity issues to really push him too high up the draft. He will start to come on the radar in the 3rd round. ELite upside, out of the league in two years downside.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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Location: PA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good analyses Khodder.

Agreed on Geno. If he's there at #7 then you run to the podium. I don't remember the last time I saw a mobile QB in a Cardinals uniform.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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Location: the Arizona desert
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
Good analyses Khodder.

Agreed on Geno. If he's there at #7 then you run to the podium. I don't remember the last time I saw a mobile QB in a Cardinals uniform.


x2

Starting to think the Wilson/Dysert could slip to the 3rd...
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