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GJT1347
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1378
Location: Omaha
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| bitty wrote: | | Al Davis cap guy must have been the dumbest person on the planet |
Al Davis was Al Davis' cap guy. And make no mistake about it, Al Davis was a cap GENIUS. You can dog his talent evaluating in his later years all you want, but he could do whatever he wanted to do with the cap, and pay whoever he wanted to pay. No one in the history of the NFL has been able to work the cap like Al did.
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DarthDavis
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5204
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | TiberiusRising wrote: | Heck, if Branch doesnt take a pay cut we should just release him. (assuming we cant trade his contract)
He counts 10.9 mill against the cap but if we released him we would only be on the hook for 4.2mill dead money. That free's up 6.7mill  Not sure why his deal was so awful.
We could easily sign two starters for that money. Pick up a George Wilson type player to bridge the gap for a drafted guy. He has been just as productive if not more than Branch. There are other guys also that could bridge the gap. Also give Mitchell his last year to prove he could be that guy.
I like Branch's potential but not for an 11million cap hit. |
I think Branch's 3.5M roster bonus is guaranteed so we'd be on the hook for that as well. I agree he isn't worth that much. He's not making enough plays to justify that salary. 4 interceptions in 5 years. |
Sounds about right for another one of our best players. That just don't produce. They cost the price of a superstar to play mediocre around here.
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Dessie
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 3844
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:35 am Post subject: |
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Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut.
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| bitty wrote: | I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked. |
#clueless |
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Dreadymatt
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 757
Location: Saturn
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
.... how did we ever sign Branch to this deal |
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dante9876
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 17519
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| GJT1347 wrote: | | bitty wrote: | | Al Davis cap guy must have been the dumbest person on the planet |
Al Davis was Al Davis' cap guy. And make no mistake about it, Al Davis was a cap GENIUS. You can dog his talent evaluating in his later years all you want, but he could do whatever he wanted to do with the cap, and pay whoever he wanted to pay. No one in the history of the NFL has been able to work the cap like Al did. |
I hear people say this all the time. He didnt work crap. He just pushed it back and pushed it back cause he knew one day he wouldnt have to be the one stuck trying to clean it up. He wasnt a cap genius. He was an old guy trying to do anything to get one more winner no matter how bad it screwed the future of the team. |
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Rolni
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 2164
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
That's a really good point!
With Huff moving back to FS and covering the backend Branch will be able to play to his strength again...
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TiberiusRising
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 5561
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Rolni wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
That's a really good point!
With Huff moving back to FS and covering the backend Branch will be able to play to his strength again... |
While part of this is true. I do not agree that covering TE's was one of his strength's. It was something he improved on in 2011 but had struggled with previously. imo Mitchell has always been better covering TE's than Branch. Yet everyone gets on Mitchell when he does make a mistake in coverage and in my eyes Branch has made for more.
Not saying Mitchell is better than Branch. But I am saying he can cover a TE better than Branch. |
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Dreadymatt
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 757
Location: Saturn
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Branch looked no better than Derrick Gibson at times last season
....is there an up-to-date list of which players are currently free agents - hence the real potential cheap signings, because I've got a feeling that is the only place we are shopping this offseason |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24624
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| TiberiusRising wrote: | | Rolni wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
That's a really good point!
With Huff moving back to FS and covering the backend Branch will be able to play to his strength again... |
While part of this is true. I do not agree that covering TE's was one of his strength's. It was something he improved on in 2011 but had struggled with previously. imo Mitchell has always been better covering TE's than Branch. Yet everyone gets on Mitchell when he does make a mistake in coverage and in my eyes Branch has made for more.
Not saying Mitchell is better than Branch. But I am saying he can cover a TE better than Branch. |
He takes better angles in pursuit too. Those 2 are probably the 2 things I noticed he has on Branch. He's fine at tackling and blitzing too. I'd love to find a way to part with Tyvon and give Mitchell and a FA a chance to battle it out at SS. But it looks like we're just stuck with Branch at least for another year. Which is alright I guess. One less position to worry about fixing on D for now.
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7237
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Dreadymatt wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
.... how did we ever sign Branch to this deal |
It's one of the world's greatest mysteries. He has never been worth half of what he signed for. It was pretty disheartening to see the old man leave and in conjunction, his outrageous contracts then we get our new GM and what does he do for his first signing? Give a guy an outrageous contract. Branch MIGHT be worth 1/3 of what he's getting paid and always has. IMO, his season was consistent w/ the way he's always been w/ the exception of a drop off in coverage. His sloppy angles and above average tackling have remained constant since getting into the league. I don't think he's ever going to learn. Cut/trade him. Mitchell can be everything Branch is for a fraction of the cost.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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Dessie
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 3844
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| TiberiusRising wrote: | | Rolni wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
That's a really good point!
With Huff moving back to FS and covering the backend Branch will be able to play to his strength again... |
While part of this is true. I do not agree that covering TE's was one of his strength's. It was something he improved on in 2011 but had struggled with previously. imo Mitchell has always been better covering TE's than Branch. Yet everyone gets on Mitchell when he does make a mistake in coverage and in my eyes Branch has made for more.
Not saying Mitchell is better than Branch. But I am saying he can cover a TE better than Branch. |
Don't agree about Mitchell being better in coverage on tight ends. Not saying he is bad cos I think that is his strength but wasn't there an article at the end of 2011 that showed Branch holding Gates catch less when he covered him and he held Gronkowski to 1 catch for 18 yards.
No doubt Branch hasn't played to his contract and at his price every mistake will be highlighted (rightly) but I think his role significantly changed this year which maybe part of the reasoning.
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| bitty wrote: | I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked. |
#clueless |
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Dreadymatt
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 757
Location: Saturn
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | | Dreadymatt wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
.... how did we ever sign Branch to this deal |
It's one of the world's greatest mysteries. He has never been worth half of what he signed for. It was pretty disheartening to see the old man leave and in conjunction, his outrageous contracts then we get our new GM and what does he do for his first signing? Give a guy an outrageous contract. Branch MIGHT be worth 1/3 of what he's getting paid and always has. IMO, his season was consistent w/ the way he's always been w/ the exception of a drop off in coverage. His sloppy angles and above average tackling have remained constant since getting into the league. I don't think he's ever going to learn. Cut/trade him. Mitchell can be everything Branch is for a fraction of the cost. |
fair play JTagg you called the Branch mis-signing right all along |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7237
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Dessie wrote: | | TiberiusRising wrote: | | Rolni wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
That's a really good point!
With Huff moving back to FS and covering the backend Branch will be able to play to his strength again... |
While part of this is true. I do not agree that covering TE's was one of his strength's. It was something he improved on in 2011 but had struggled with previously. imo Mitchell has always been better covering TE's than Branch. Yet everyone gets on Mitchell when he does make a mistake in coverage and in my eyes Branch has made for more.
Not saying Mitchell is better than Branch. But I am saying he can cover a TE better than Branch. |
Don't agree about Mitchell being better in coverage on tight ends. Not saying he is bad cos I think that is his strength but wasn't there an article at the end of 2011 that showed Branch holding Gates catch less when he covered him and he held Gronkowski to 1 catch for 18 yards.
No doubt Branch hasn't played to his contract and at his price every mistake will be highlighted (rightly) but I think his role significantly changed this year which maybe part of the reasoning. |
Branch definitely regressed in coverage but I'm also willing to bet you're upplaying him a little bit. While he might have covered those aforementioned players all game, I'm positive he's not the sole reason they had those numbers.
_________________
| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7237
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Dreadymatt wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | Dreadymatt wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
.... how did we ever sign Branch to this deal |
It's one of the world's greatest mysteries. He has never been worth half of what he signed for. It was pretty disheartening to see the old man leave and in conjunction, his outrageous contracts then we get our new GM and what does he do for his first signing? Give a guy an outrageous contract. Branch MIGHT be worth 1/3 of what he's getting paid and always has. IMO, his season was consistent w/ the way he's always been w/ the exception of a drop off in coverage. His sloppy angles and above average tackling have remained constant since getting into the league. I don't think he's ever going to learn. Cut/trade him. Mitchell can be everything Branch is for a fraction of the cost. |
fair play JTagg you called the Branch mis-signing right all along |
Haha I just call it like I see it. I want our players to be good but if they're not, I'm not going to sit here and call them good. I hope he improves and I always have.... just don't see it.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 12742
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Dessie wrote: | | TiberiusRising wrote: | | Rolni wrote: | | Dessie wrote: | Branch is at his best as a in the box safety and playing man coverage on tight ends. It was this play that got him the contract. He has never been a playmaker in terms of picks but then that wasn't expected (at least by me).
Now whether it was an intended scheme change or whether it was forced upon them due to the injuries to Bartell and Spencer and having to move Huff to CB but we played 2 deep zone coverage most of this year to try prevent our corners being exposed. This isn't Branchs forte and he was caught out at times. I didn't think he was caught out that many though but I am sure somebody will have some stats.
Injuries played a part this year as well (ankle and neck). No doubt his play wasn't worthy of the contract (Reggies cap guy not Al's) and unless we are going to play a scheme that he suits then he seems to be a likely cut. |
That's a really good point!
With Huff moving back to FS and covering the backend Branch will be able to play to his strength again... |
While part of this is true. I do not agree that covering TE's was one of his strength's. It was something he improved on in 2011 but had struggled with previously. imo Mitchell has always been better covering TE's than Branch. Yet everyone gets on Mitchell when he does make a mistake in coverage and in my eyes Branch has made for more.
Not saying Mitchell is better than Branch. But I am saying he can cover a TE better than Branch. |
Don't agree about Mitchell being better in coverage on tight ends. Not saying he is bad cos I think that is his strength but wasn't there an article at the end of 2011 that showed Branch holding Gates catch less when he covered him and he held Gronkowski to 1 catch for 18 yards.
No doubt Branch hasn't played to his contract and at his price every mistake will be highlighted (rightly) but I think his role significantly changed this year which maybe part of the reasoning. |
The thing is Branch career has been up and down so far. It seems he's playing at an above average level one year then regress the next. I'm sure we could live with it if he wasn't paid like one of the elite safeties in the league. The contract we gave him last year was a mistake. It paid him more than his franchise tag number on average. Keeping him on the franchise tag in 2012 would have been a better option if there was no way to sign him for less.
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