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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 40578
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrscottso wrote:

I think that Walker is very underrated by most fans on this site. He is extremely important to our running game.


I disagree and agree at the same time.

What Walker does in the run game has been important, yes.. but... any focused TE can do what he does. They just have to know their role and execute it. Walker isn't uprooting defenders off their spots and driving them back. He's a wall-off, angle-off, chip-blocker that gets to his spot and does just enough to get between his guy and the RB. That isn't a difficult task to execute... it just happens to be an important one.

We draft even an "undersized receiving TE that blocks poorly" ( like Eifert, Fauria, Reed, or Escobar ) and they too can do exactly what Walker does for the run game... so long as they are focused on learning and executing their role. So we get one of them and they learn the scheme? They will block just as Walker did.. plus, they will actually make the important catches... and plus.. they will cost far less than what Walker seems to be asking for... plus, they are just developing babies vs getting up in age.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
mrscottso wrote:

I think that Walker is very underrated by most fans on this site. He is extremely important to our running game.


I disagree and agree at the same time.

What Walker does in the run game has been important, yes.. but... any focused TE can do what he does. They just have to know their role and execute it. Walker isn't uprooting defenders off their spots and driving them back. He's a wall-off, angle-off, chip-blocker that gets to his spot and does just enough to get between his guy and the RB. That isn't a difficult task to execute... it just happens to be an important one.

We draft even an "undersized receiving TE that blocks poorly" ( like Eifert, Fauria, Reed, or Escobar ) and they too can do exactly what Walker does for the run game... so long as they are focused on learning and executing their role. So we get one of them and they learn the scheme? They will block just as Walker did.. plus, they will actually make the important catches... and plus.. they will cost far less than what Walker seems to be asking for... plus, they are just developing babies vs getting up in age.



I agree with this. All the praises Delanie gets from his blocking and importance come from angle blocks. He is rarely asked to take on anyone, and how could he, he's not massive enough to take on a DL or LB. It's pure physics. The scheme has used him the way FBs are used, to get in the way of the defense and disrupt their scheme.

The best example of this, and probably what has built up Delanie's legend as a blocker, is the way he was used against the Lions last year. That game, we unleashed the wham on Ndamukong Suh. Everyone will agree that Delanie Walker cannot take on Suh. As a matter of fact, very few human beings on earth can take on Suh one on one. So we schemed to our advantage. Instead of using one or two OL to try and contain Suh, we used none, and had Delanie come in with an angle and nudge Suh inside while the run was designed to develop outside of him. It didn't require power or great technique. All Delanie had to do was come in from the side and push Suh off. This way, we used one TE to get Suh out of the play, while our OL took care of the remaining 3 DL and the LBs, with the help of Bruce Miller and Vernon Davis. In the numbers game, we won. Gore didn't get touched until the secondary. So Delanie's prowess as a blocker isn't more impressive than any other TE in that regard, or any FB, or any (legally) chop-blocking receiver.

The scheme placed Delanie in a position to make important block, and Delanie's merit, in all of that, was his ability to digest the playbook and take on responsibilities, not the blocking itself. Replacnig his blocking abilities won't be hard. It's replacing the mental aspect that he brings that might be harder. He knows the playbook. He knows the plays, the motions, the positioning, the timing. He's a very valuable asset. But he's not a high salary asset for us in a salary cap model. The good news is that perhaps Garrett Celek has learned enough of the playbook that we can make a smooth transition. If a run block requires a bit more athleticism, because Delanie brought that on motions or on plays where he started up on one side of the formation and swept across to cut-block on the other side's edge, then maybe we could even use Celek inline on the play side and use VD in place of Delanie. It's time we use him in different ways. Imagine that same sweeping block, but turn it into a playaction fake and have VD hit the flat with speed. That's a short pass that has the potential to get a big gain.

I think we could get better without Delanie. The coaching staff only has to get creative again. The running game this year has been somewhat dull when compared to 2011. Even more so, in my opinion, when we started running more read-option and pistol.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 14823
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
mrscottso wrote:

I think that Walker is very underrated by most fans on this site. He is extremely important to our running game.


I disagree and agree at the same time.

What Walker does in the run game has been important, yes.. but... any focused TE can do what he does. They just have to know their role and execute it. Walker isn't uprooting defenders off their spots and driving them back. He's a wall-off, angle-off, chip-blocker that gets to his spot and does just enough to get between his guy and the RB. That isn't a difficult task to execute... it just happens to be an important one.

We draft even an "undersized receiving TE that blocks poorly" ( like Eifert, Fauria, Reed, or Escobar ) and they too can do exactly what Walker does for the run game... so long as they are focused on learning and executing their role. So we get one of them and they learn the scheme? They will block just as Walker did.. plus, they will actually make the important catches... and plus.. they will cost far less than what Walker seems to be asking for... plus, they are just developing babies vs getting up in age.


Perfect assessment of Walker. It's not like he doesn't help the team (when he's not busy hurting it by dropping passes). It's just that it's quite likely there a lot of guys, even rookies, who could do the same thing.
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49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 6852
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if we will let Goldson go, or franchise him instead of re-signing him. I would like to re-sign him but its a money thing. IMO he's a good, maybe very good S, but is he worth the contract he desires? He wanted about $8M last year while the 49ers only wanted to pay 6.2 (franchise). After a pro bowl year he will only want more. I'm thinking Brandon Carr money (5/50).

We all know Baalke's method in FA..he sets a price on a player and will not budge. I don't know if he'll go higher than 7.5 (franchise) or 8 this year.

In a vacuum a big deal would be great, but we have to be wary....Kaep, Aldon, Iupati, Anthony Davis, Crabtree, all will require new contracts in the next year or 2. Will Goldson's deal be an additional strain on the cap?

I think i would prefer franchising him over anything. And maybe look at a FS somewhere early in the draft. I'd also root for a guy like Trenton Robinson or Michael Thomas to step up and at least see some snaps as a backup.
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DirtyJersey9er


Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefs just cut Steve Breaston and Kevin Boss.

Boss could be serviceable if we lose Delanie.
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
“@sf_game: @PFCentral hope they get it done. what are chances they trade for harvin? where will Alex smith go?” High and Smith chiefs

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49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 6852
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
“@sf_game: @PFCentral hope they get it done. what are chances they trade for harvin? where will Alex smith go?” High and Smith chiefs


I wonder how credible this site is. First they said we were interested in Welker. Then that SF and Delanie are far apart in a negotiation. Now that we have a "high" chance to trade for Harvin and Smith is likely to go to KC.

It could all be legit or it could all just be a educated guess because some if not all of this stuff seems like common sense.
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DirtyJersey9er


Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
“@sf_game: @PFCentral hope they get it done. what are chances they trade for harvin? where will Alex smith go?” High and Smith chiefs


Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
@drewayers24 @sf_game Chiefs are very interested in Alex Smith. Reid wanted him last year when he was a free agent


Oh man please let these happen.
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DirtyJersey9er


Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
“@sf_game: @PFCentral hope they get it done. what are chances they trade for harvin? where will Alex smith go?” High and Smith chiefs


I wonder how credible this site is. First they said we were interested in Welker. Then that SF and Delanie are far apart in a negotiation. Now that we have a "high" chance to trade for Harvin and Smith is likely to go to KC.

It could all be legit or it could all just be a educated guess because some if not all of this stuff seems like common sense.


I hope it's legit. He is also saying he thinks the contract Dashon signs with us would have low first two years with larger money the rest of the way and guaranteed money spread throughout the deal to protect the team.
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49ers Finest


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would like steve breaston over here. i think hes a solid guy. could fill in until ham is okay and also battle with aj and a rookie
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
“@sf_game: @PFCentral hope they get it done. what are chances they trade for harvin? where will Alex smith go?” High and Smith chiefs


No matter how hard i try, I just can't see the niners trading for Harvin. It would take a good amount of decent picks, and Harvin wants a good extension, and we have our own guys to worry about in the next few years. I don't generally concern myself with the "locker room problem", since Harbaugh has shown in his two years that he just doesn't put up with that stuff.

I still think Smith makes the most amount of sense to go to the chiefs, but I will admit that the availability of Nick Foles makes me a little bit nervous about whether or not we will be able to trade him there, and I don't know what other team fits. Reid obviously likes Foles, having drafted him once, and Foles can be seen as QB of the future with potential, where as Alex is a veteran that most people are going to consider to be a stopgap. Also, I think that whole, "Reid likes Alex" thing just stems from something that Trent Dilfer about there being a "courtship" last year, even though I can't remember anyone reporting on it and don't remember anyone confirming what Dilfer said since it's been said. With all of that being said, if the chiefs want to do what's best for their team, they'll trade for Smith. He is better than Foles right now (and there's no guarantee that Foles will become is good as smith is), and also, I'm willing to bet with all of our draft choices this year, that we are completely content to take a pick or two in next year's draft instead. this works for KC as well as they have to believe that they have enough talent on that team that with just an average quarterback they can win 6-8 games and not be drafting first or second in every round. I think the eagles, on the other hand, are going to want a pick (or picks) in this years draft for Foles.
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adamq


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyJersey9er wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
“@sf_game: @PFCentral hope they get it done. what are chances they trade for harvin? where will Alex smith go?” High and Smith chiefs


Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
@drewayers24 @sf_game Chiefs are very interested in Alex Smith. Reid wanted him last year when he was a free agent


Oh man please let these happen.





*prays*

We get compensation, and Alex thrives in a perfect situation.. Everyone wins.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adamq wrote:
DirtyJersey9er wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
“@sf_game: @PFCentral hope they get it done. what are chances they trade for harvin? where will Alex smith go?” High and Smith chiefs


Quote:
ProFootballCentral ‏@PFCentral
@drewayers24 @sf_game Chiefs are very interested in Alex Smith. Reid wanted him last year when he was a free agent


Oh man please let these happen.





*prays*

We get compensation, and Alex thrives in a perfect situation outside the NFC.. Everyone wins.


Slightly updated your statement.
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NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports Steven Jackson "wants to be back with the Rams," and "(won't) be surprised" if the sides agree to a new deal.
The feeling appears to be mutual, as coach Jeff Fisher has spent the week praising Jackson, going as far as to say he wishes he could have coached Jackson earlier in his career. Jackson is essentially a free agent since he has the power to void his $7 million deal for 2013, but it sounds like his first, second and third options are finding a way to remain with the only team he's ever known.

-roto
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NcFinest9erFan


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Pelissero of ESPN Twin Cities "heard" at the Combine that free agent Greg Jennings is seeking $14 million a year.
$14 million annually would make Jennings the NFL's third highest paid wide receiver behind Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. No one is going to pay that much for an injury-prone wideout entering his age-30 season. Per Pelissero, there is a "popular theory" among NFL front offices that wide receivers will "sit on the market" like inside linebackers did last year. In other words, they may price themselves out of the initial wave of free agency.

roto

He can sit and wait and take a vet minimum from us Very Happy
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