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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2939
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigSnack wrote:
well gay looks like he will get his chance to show his skills to all those across the pond.


Eh?
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9979
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOSteelers56 wrote:

I have a feeling Keisel was hurt or something last year. His play dramatically increased half way through the season.


he was hurt, and his play did increase dramatically.

despite the fact that he was hurt and he was absolute garbage, our first round draft pick got almost no playing time. Perhaps if Heyward got some playing time, Keisel would've healed faster, Heyward would've gotten more snaps and more experience. That sounds like a win-win to me.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 13014
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
MOSteelers56 wrote:

I have a feeling Keisel was hurt or something last year. His play dramatically increased half way through the season.


he was hurt, and his play did increase dramatically.

despite the fact that he was hurt and he was absolute garbage, our first round draft pick got almost no playing time. Perhaps if Heyward got some playing time, Keisel would've healed faster, Heyward would've gotten more snaps and more experience. That sounds like a win-win to me.


I'll be honest, I'm not sure I agree with you. First of all, I'm not prepared to say that Keisel was absolute garbage and second of all, even if he was, what does that say about Heyward that he can't 'beat out' Keisel for the starting job?
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9979
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
I'm not prepared to say that Keisel was absolute garbage


for the first half dozen games or so he was.

wwhickok wrote:
and second of all, even if he was, what does that say about Heyward that he can't 'beat out' Keisel for the starting job?


absolutely nothing. LeBeau would keep JJ Watt off the field if we had drafted him in 2011. Patrick Peterson would've sat behind William Gay in 2011.

Heyward not seeing the field is an indictment of the defensive coaching staff's constant reliance on veteran players. That's the point.

We draft Ziggy, he sits behind Aaron Smith. naturally. Demolition Man was a beast. Ziggy gets some substantial playing time in 2010. He really kicks it into high gear and in the last 7 games of the season, he registers sacks in 5 of the games and is top 3 in tackles. WTF?!?!? So we reward him by sending him to the bench again in 2011. Aaron Smith was obviously a shell of his former self. He was getting mauled in practice and he got mauled in the first abomination against the Ravens in 2011. He obviously was done, but Ziggy continued to wait.

We draft Cam Heyward 1st round. We make sure he stays plastered to the bench all season, then throw him in at the end of the season in the playoffs and wonder why he didn't play too well? Maybe he had an a$$ cramp from sitting on the bench all year.

2012 begins, and Keisel is still suffering from his groin injury that he sustained vs. Denver in the playoffs. Funny how injuries on 34-year old bodies seem to last so much longer...anyway, Keisel stinks for the first several games of the season. Heyward finally gets a chance on the last series vs. the NYJ and he basically closes the game out with a tackle for loss and a sack to end the game.

BACK TO THE BENCH YOU GO!!!

the very next week, the Steelers' defense gets dominated and Keisel (and Snack, for that matter) get steamrolled by an Oakland team that ran cutback lanes at Keisel all game long. McFadden's cutback lane on his 62-yard run was created by Keisel getting owned at the LoS by the kid from Hillman College (tall dude, name escapes me EDIT - Veldheer). Keisel was terrible that game. He doesn't get it together until week 7 (I think) right before the bye week

Perhaps a healthy Heyward could ride his progress and the "wave" from being so good vs. the NYJ (against D'Brickshaw Ferguson, no less, one of only 4 sacks he gave up all year) and perhaps we don't get slapped around so bad vs. Oakland?
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2426
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I'm not prepared to say that Keisel was absolute garbage


for the first half dozen games or so he was.

wwhickok wrote:
and second of all, even if he was, what does that say about Heyward that he can't 'beat out' Keisel for the starting job?


absolutely nothing. LeBeau would keep JJ Watt off the field if we had drafted him in 2011. Patrick Peterson would've sat behind William Gay in 2011.

Heyward not seeing the field is an indictment of the defensive coaching staff's constant reliance on veteran players. That's the point.

We draft Ziggy, he sits behind Aaron Smith. naturally. Demolition Man was a beast. Ziggy gets some substantial playing time in 2010. He really kicks it into high gear and in the last 7 games of the season, he registers sacks in 5 of the games and is top 3 in tackles. WTF?!?!? So we reward him by sending him to the bench again in 2011. Aaron Smith was obviously a shell of his former self. He was getting mauled in practice and he got mauled in the first abomination against the Ravens in 2011. He obviously was done, but Ziggy continued to wait.

We draft Cam Heyward 1st round. We make sure he stays plastered to the bench all season, then throw him in at the end of the season in the playoffs and wonder why he didn't play too well? Maybe he had an a$$ cramp from sitting on the bench all year.

2012 begins, and Keisel is still suffering from his groin injury that he sustained vs. Denver in the playoffs. Funny how injuries on 34-year old bodies seem to last so much longer...anyway, Keisel stinks for the first several games of the season. Heyward finally gets a chance on the last series vs. the NYJ and he basically closes the game out with a tackle for loss and a sack to end the game.

BACK TO THE BENCH YOU GO!!!

the very next week, the Steelers' defense gets dominated and Keisel (and Snack, for that matter) get steamrolled by an Oakland team that ran cutback lanes at Keisel all game long. McFadden's cutback lane on his 62-yard run was created by Keisel getting owned at the LoS by the kid from Hillman College (tall dude, name escapes me EDIT - Veldheer). Keisel was terrible that game. He doesn't get it together until week 7 (I think) right before the bye week

Perhaps a healthy Heyward could ride his progress and the "wave" from being so good vs. the NYJ (against D'Brickshaw Ferguson, no less, one of only 4 sacks he gave up all year) and perhaps we don't get slapped around so bad vs. Oakland?


does lebeau have influence on the FO to get a player in UFA like willie? If so, he is senile .
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 63497
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
MOSteelers56 wrote:

I have a feeling Keisel was hurt or something last year. His play dramatically increased half way through the season.


he was hurt, and his play did increase dramatically.

despite the fact that he was hurt and he was absolute garbage, our first round draft pick got almost no playing time. Perhaps if Heyward got some playing time, Keisel would've healed faster, Heyward would've gotten more snaps and more experience. That sounds like a win-win to me.


I'll be honest, I'm not sure I agree with you. First of all, I'm not prepared to say that Keisel was absolute garbage and second of all, even if he was, what does that say about Heyward that he can't 'beat out' Keisel for the starting job?
yep! Kiesel wasn't as bad as some would lead us to believe. Seems like he's on a mission to just hate all the veterans lately and one of the best coaches in team history.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9979
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
MOSteelers56 wrote:

I have a feeling Keisel was hurt or something last year. His play dramatically increased half way through the season.


he was hurt, and his play did increase dramatically.

despite the fact that he was hurt and he was absolute garbage, our first round draft pick got almost no playing time. Perhaps if Heyward got some playing time, Keisel would've healed faster, Heyward would've gotten more snaps and more experience. That sounds like a win-win to me.


I'll be honest, I'm not sure I agree with you. First of all, I'm not prepared to say that Keisel was absolute garbage and second of all, even if he was, what does that say about Heyward that he can't 'beat out' Keisel for the starting job?
yep! Kiesel wasn't as bad as some would lead us to believe. Seems like he's on a mission to just hate all the veterans lately and one of the best coaches in team history.


read what I wrote please.

Keisel was terrible the first half dozen games. After that, he was one of the best players on the defense.

your response above is standard message board tripe

by stating that a player wasn't playing well, it's "hating"
by admitting that LeBeau is human and that he might not do everything perfectly, it's "hating"

don't let that fallacy to the extreme slap you too hard in the face, please.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49729
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
by stating that a player wasn't playing well, it's "hating"
by admitting that LeBeau is human and that he might not do everything perfectly, it's "hating"


I couldnt possibly agree more with this.

This happens way too often. People cry hate over everything.

I do think you are going way overboard complaining about the Gay signing, but I do agree with that part.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking about being a hater, why doesn't the new post 'icon' work for the past month? Tired of clicking on same thread, thinking there's a new post!!

/end rant (felt like going off my rocker since Kethy did)
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BigSnack


Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 708
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MightyJoeYoung wrote:
BigSnack wrote:
well gay looks like he will get his chance to show his skills to all those across the pond.


Eh?


now that gay is back with us, that was him getting trucked by peterson on that play, and we happen to get to play the vikes this year, and it is in London.
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Dook wrote:
D.Revis24 wrote:
What was his injury last season that forced him to miss 5 games?


Yeast infection.
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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2939
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigSnack wrote:
MightyJoeYoung wrote:
BigSnack wrote:
well gay looks like he will get his chance to show his skills to all those across the pond.


Eh?


now that gay is back with us, that was him getting trucked by peterson on that play, and we happen to get to play the vikes this year, and it is in London.

Ah, right yeah. I thought he had said he was gonna play Rugby or something haha
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said nothing about anyone "hating anyone", but I've also said for over a year now this team is going to be transitioning from the older players that were brought in the early part and mid part of last decade to a younger group of players and in the transition the team will probably hover around .500 or maybe have a season of under .500. People need to display more patience and expect some growing pains in this transition.

So, why I see all of this player hasn't stepped up yet, he can't possibly have a future, this coach is done because he likes to play his veterans till "he" feels they are done and the young players are truly ready to be full time players. It rubs me the wrong way.

Do people expect this franchise to just constantly win 12 games a year?

It doesn't work that way, there are ebbs and flows with every franchise and most of that depends on how healthy the team is. Last year and I predict this year will be around .500, but I think next year (2014) the team will be back and one of the best in the conference.

Have patience, have faith! Wink Cool
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9979
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I said nothing about anyone "hating anyone", but I've also said for over a year now this team is going to be transitioning from the older players that were brought in the early part and mid part of last decade to a younger group of players



and I agree with you. Which is why it's aggravating as hell to see us bring back William Gay, whose ceiling is about as high as my bottom bootlace.

We've seen LeBeau rely on untalented vets while talented younger guys sit. There is no 2 ways around the fact that a player who is actually playing will learn the defense and get more reps, which is what helps develop those younger players

Gay got 3 years to prove himself. He proved the first 2 seasons that he was putrid. He finally didn't suck by year 3.

Gay got 3 years. Brown got 1 game.

I hope like heck I eat my words, and we see Heyward and Brown get some appreciable field time so they can actually develop. I have, literally, zero issues starting younger guys so they can develop. That's kinda one of my bones of contention here that seems to be getting twisted or misconstrued.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 8158
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Gay's game is zone coverage. He sucks at man. Most of what the Steelers were doing last year was bump and run man. Even the 3 year contract, he will be cheap to cut. 500K signing bonus.

We shall see if Carnell Lake can work his magic. I would rather him be doing voodoo with Curtis Brown so she can get in there as the nickle.
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