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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8416
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
You draft core pieces..you pick up complimentary pieces in free agency. You do NOT spend a crapton of money on average players just because they are the best of a weak group..that's how you become the Redskins.


Thank you for understanding my point.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1936
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
I don't think Fa is overrated at all. If a organization is smart about the moves they pull, the players that can be picked up can be huge upgrades for their new teams
Yeah lets see...

The Saints picked up Brees, Vilma, Sharper, Sproles, and Grubbs over the years.

49ers signed Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Justin Smith, Ahmad Brooks, and Jonathan Goodwin

Not many core players out of that group but many good role players that play along side with other players on that team. Tampa has a chance to add some role-player type guys and possibly a core player, most likely a CB.

I'm anxious to see what happens. Grimes and Cox/Smith would be lovely package to obtain.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Location: Deadpulse sigging it up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
You draft core pieces..you pick up complimentary pieces in free agency. You do NOT spend a crapton of money on average players just because they are the best of a weak group..that's how you become the Redskins.


Thank you for understanding my point.


I understood your point.

You and I have different views on the fa's though. I don't view Avril or Goldson as "average"
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tml_gogo


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
You draft core pieces..you pick up complimentary pieces in free agency. You do NOT spend a crapton of money on average players just because they are the best of a weak group..that's how you become the Redskins.


Thank you for understanding my point.


I understood your point.

You and I have different views on the fa's though. I don't view Avril or Goldson as "average"


Do you think either of them deserve to be paid as a top 5 player at their position?
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
You draft core pieces..you pick up complimentary pieces in free agency. You do NOT spend a crapton of money on average players just because they are the best of a weak group..that's how you become the Redskins.


Thank you for understanding my point.


I understood your point.

You and I have different views on the fa's though. I don't view Avril or Goldson as "average"


Do you think either of them deserve to be paid as a top 5 player at their position?


I wouldn't have a problem paying Goldson $8 per

I wouldn't have a problem paying Avril $10 per
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gholdson would not fit the bill as a coverage FS. He was exposed. The 49ers have a pretty intelligent brass. They can free cap room to retain him IF he was that good. The point is. Neither of the niners safeties were as good as advertised. Tey both could hit some one but covering Wrs and TEs wasn't their game.

Gholdson is better off in the box at ss.


Avril? 9 sacks doesn't get you top 5 money as a pass rusher and shouldn't. If he were in the mid teens then yes. But no. Averaging 9 sacks a year over the past 3 seasons makes you solid not elite.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted last week comments about Goldson and his so called "bad coverage" skills and that he should be a "ss". Replies were right from 9ers fans themselves... the guys that watch him every game. Not one or two playoffs games but every game. If they feel comfortable with him and have had success with him and are willing to pay him $7+ mil last season not sure why we wouldn't pay $8? The reason they aren't resigning him is because they have to sign Crabtree, Kap, Iupati, Davis. Which one of those 4 guys are going to take less than top tier money? In a deep safety draft, the wise move would be to save money for those 4 guys this year and move on from Dashon.

y2lamanaki wrote:
Oh it'll definitely be a contract or franchise tag. I'll be shocked beyond belief if he's not a 49er next year.


steadypimpin wrote:
You don't let guys like him walk away. Goldson is the full package, I will be upset if they let him walk away.


o_0 wrote:
A huge piece of this defense, we can't afford to lose him. He sets the tone with his vicious hits and timely turnovers. I think the FO realizes that and gives him a nice extension in the offseason.


Avril while I admit he isn't top tier this $10 per for the top 5 guys is going to vanish asap. Guys like Watt, Aldon Smith, JPP, Miller are going to get $12-15 per and blow the magic number 10 out of the water. Guys would feel comfortable paying Bennett 8 or so (so would I) but not pay Avril who adds speed and the ability to create turn overs (8ff the last 2 seasons will collecting 7.5 more sacks as well over the same time) a whopping 2 more per?

No clue how someone would be willing to pay Lewis $7 per after one solid season and Kruger $8 per after a solid 10 games and play him out of position but not willing to shell out the extra $1 for Goldson or $2 for Avril. Both have multiple years of production and are either still in their prime or a few years away still.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dueces,

First of all, I know how FA works. Guys are going to get overpaid.

Avril wants the 10-12 million a year mark. He simply isn't worth that. He turned down a 10 million per year contract offer from Detroit. He'll get more. Demarcus Ware, the games best pass rusher, makes 11.5 million a year. Avril is no where near the level of that.

As for FS, Gholdson, regardless of how fans perceive him, was awful and there is a reason why the Niners, who are a pretty intelligent brass, are not resigning him. Their secondary was exposed by every QB late in the season.

I never said Kruegar was worthy of 8 million. I thought his worth, before he blew up in the AFC title game and Super Bowl, was around 6 million. He's going to get around 10. No chance.

And Keenen Lewis, didn't just have one good year. He's been consistent when on the field. He locks down guys. Sure his INT ratio isn't very high, but he doesn't give up plays nor a ton of completions his way either.

Like many said. Michael Bennett is a solid player, but when he gets paid, you're not even getting a top 10 pass rusher, but he could get that type of money on the market. That's why Dom will not overpay. I think he's learned his lessons with the Quincy Black/Michael Clayton/Eric Wright/Derrick Ward Scenarios. He caught a break with Eric Wright.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be fine with overlooking most FAs but Keenan Lewis is good, young, and fills a need. We should go after him.

Goldson would be a nice addition, but I would be worried about his contract.

But I generally agree that most of the FAs that we are talking about aren't worth what they will make.
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BBando


Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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Location: Tampa Bay
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or maybe the 49ers aren't resigning him because they have to pay Iupati, Kaep and Aldon Smith new contracts. I am sure if the could afford to keep Goldson they would.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 22 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBando wrote:
Or maybe the 49ers aren't resigning him because they have to pay Iupati, Kaep and Aldon Smith new contracts. I am sure if the could afford to keep Goldson they would.


not to mention the slew of draft picks they have
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Dueces,

First of all, I know how FA works. Guys are going to get overpaid.


Guys will say pretty much every fa is overpaid. Look what people are saying about Flacco. Look what people are saying about Bowe's new deal. Same thing they said about Nicks and Jackson last season. "Shouldn't pay a guard that much", "Jackson isn't worth $55mill". Once Wallace signs for $60+mil people with think Bowe's and Jackson's contracts are solid.

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Avril wants the 10-12 million a year mark. He simply isn't worth that. He turned down a 10 million per year contract offer from Detroit. He'll get more. Demarcus Ware, the games best pass rusher, makes 11.5 million a year. Avril is no where near the level of that.


$12 per is getting up there for me but I would be fine with $10. He turned down $10 per because it was only for 3 years. Who that young signs for that short of time at that amount of money? I'm sure if a 6-7 year deal was on the table he would have been all over that! Ware the games best pass rusher also signed his deal how many years ago... 5? His per doesn't mean much to me now. If he was 26 years old today he would be commanding $15 per! just like JPP, Smith, Watt and the few others I mentioned above will in the next year or two.

REDandPEWTER wrote:
As for FS, Gholdson, regardless of how fans perceive him, was awful and there is a reason why the Niners, who are a pretty intelligent brass, are not resigning him. Their secondary was exposed by every QB late in the season.


.... huh "regardless how the fans perceive him" you are telling me you can claim he is a ss and he is a liability in coverage but the teams actual fans can't scout as good as you? I have quoted what they think of him. Take a look in the 9ers section and 95% of them wanted to keep him. Future contracts are the reason he is hitting the road. Not enough money to go around.

REDandPEWTER wrote:
And Keenen Lewis, didn't just have one good year. He's been consistent when on the field. He locks down guys. Sure his INT ratio isn't very high, but he doesn't give up plays nor a ton of completions his way either.


His three season combined totals prior to this past, he had a whopping total of 39 tackles, 1int, 6 passes defended. 13 tackles, .3int, 2 pass defenses per. I think it's safe to say this past season has been his first good year.

We have had this discussion before. I am not dying to go after Avril or Smith or others besides Dashon but if we add any of them I won't have a sour taste in my mouth because we gave $8 per to Dashon or $10 per to Avril. I think they are worth it, you don't and that's that.
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ABucNBradenton


Joined: 15 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw somewhere that said Goldson is seeking 8 mil.

I hope we get him in Tampa.
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Calibucsfan


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 3554
Location: Los Angeles CA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just read that their not going to resign Rashean Mathis.

I know he is 32, but what happened to this dude? He used to be like a top 5 CB a few years ago
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Get on the yearly Buc carousel. Start off trash. Look better by mid season. Win 2-3 games at the end of the season. Get the 7th pick. Have what most fans consider a great draft and free agency. Start off trash again. Rinse and repeat
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8416
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
Just read that their not going to resign Rashean Mathis.

I know he is 32, but what happened to this dude? He used to be like a top 5 CB a few years ago



Age has caught up
To him. He really has declined.
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