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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
We've got too many holes and not enough green to fill them in FA. We need a day one starter in the 1st, be it DE, CB, or LT if we move Albert or convince him to play OG. I suppose you could argue ILB, Safety, or WR, but those would only be options in a trade down scenario IMO.


Bigs, with the way Bowe's contract is structured, it looks like we can now land a starter in FA (CB?)....then one with pick #1 (DL?), and certainly we can find a starter at ILB as that position isn't of high value and we can find starter quality in rounds 3-5. With who we re-signed, that's plenty good enough to contend for the playoffs or more depending on how the pieces fit. Lewis is fine as a starter, we just need depth there in the mid rounds and Baldwin is still obviously intriguing. But we can also grab a WR in the 3rd and still get ILB,S, and TE with picks 3-5.
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muttz1983


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our best option at picking a qb is to pick one in the 3rd or 4th round. I feel like that is where the value is going to be for this years class of qbs.

Personally, I think Geno is the only first round qb (mid to late)
If we pick him at 1 I would want him to sit for several years, 3 to 4, to understand blitz coverages and play calling. Neither of these did he do at WVU. Aaron Rodgers did the same thing.

Barkely, Manuel and Wilson second round. (in order)
Glad we are trading for Smith because I feel he is better than any of these three to be our opening day starter.

Bray, Glennon, Nassib, Dysert rounds 3 or 4. (in order)
There is not a real drop off from the 2nd round qbs. And in my opinion only a slight drop from Geno.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No thanks, I'd like to see what Reid can do with Stanzi before taking a similar prospect in this draft.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
We've got too many holes and not enough green to fill them in FA. We need a day one starter in the 1st, be it DE, CB, or LT if we move Albert or convince him to play OG. I suppose you could argue ILB, Safety, or WR, but those would only be options in a trade down scenario IMO.


Bigs, with the way Bowe's contract is structured, it looks like we can now land a starter in FA (CB?)....then one with pick #1 (DL?), and certainly we can find a starter at ILB as that position isn't of high value and we can find starter quality in rounds 3-5. With who we re-signed, that's plenty good enough to contend for the playoffs or more depending on how the pieces fit. Lewis is fine as a starter, we just need depth there in the mid rounds and Baldwin is still obviously intriguing. But we can also grab a WR in the 3rd and still get ILB,S, and TE with picks 3-5.

But Tyson and Colquitt's deals through the savings on Bowe out the window. In my head I had been figuring $9MM for Bowe, $4MM for Tyson, and under $3MM for Colquitt, which is $16MM total. Based on what I've seen, that group now totals just under $15MM for 2013.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what I've been thinking about Geno. And I said this before the Smith trade was official, and I still feel this way.

Geno may not be the hyped Luck/RGIII. But he has a lot of good qualities, to be every bit as good as guys like Wilson, who let's be honest, don't we all wish we'd drafted last year as we sit here now?

So I'll ask this question again. As a fanbase STARVED for a QBOTF, or a Franchise QB or whatever you want to call it, if Reid/Dorsey fell in love with Geno, could people really be that upset? I mean, it's been 30 years since we drafted a top level QB, sooner or later, that simply has to change. Plus, we keep him from Oakland Smile
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
Here is what I've been thinking about Geno. And I said this before the Smith trade was official, and I still feel this way.

Geno may not be the hyped Luck/RGIII. But he has a lot of good qualities, to be every bit as good as guys like Wilson, who let's be honest, don't we all wish we'd drafted last year as we sit here now?

So I'll ask this question again. As a fanbase STARVED for a QBOTF, or a Franchise QB or whatever you want to call it, if Reid/Dorsey fell in love with Geno, could people really be that upset? I mean, it's been 30 years since we drafted a top level QB, sooner or later, that simply has to change. Plus, we keep him from Oakland Smile


DT,
I could definitely get behind Geno Smith. The only thing I would think is that we jumped too quickly at Alex Smith before we fully put Geno through the ringer so-to-speak in the offseason workouts/interview process.

I just find it hard to believe that Alex Smith would sign an extension with us if Geno Smith is drafted as the long term solution. It would basically be the Kaepernick situation all over again, just before Smith commits to a long term deal. If it is going to be a truly open competition that is one thing...I guess I am really torn about it. Part of me wishes that we would have really determined that Geno is not the franchise quarterback before we went with an alternate option.

I would have been ok with us drafting Geno Smith #1 overall and signing a veteran like either David Garrard or Jason Campbell to serve as the #2 and then have Ricky Stanzi as the #3.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nic, I agree, it's not ideal. But I don't know that I necessarily think Geno or any of these QB's are day one starters baring injury to A. Smith (please god no). I also have stated this fact that we will re-work Smith's deal within days of him being officially ours.

All I'm saying is, drafting Geno and letting him sit a year, then compete and maybe sit a second year, wouldn't be the worst possible pic in my mind. And at least it would show people who are doubting this Leadership team that we have a plan for the present AND the future.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sign AJ Feeley for a pair of season tickets to be the back-up, maybe snag someone like Landry Jones if they plummet to the 6th round or maybe Nathan Stanley (still very high on this small school prospect's potential), and give Alex a chance to seize the reigns. Given his history, Reid's QB guru status, and a pretty good supporting cast, there should be no excuses for not pretty good to great performance expectations year one.

That then gives them a chance to evaluate Stanzi and/or a late rounder this year, plus defer to what should be a better overall group next year. Not to mention, we've got too many holes without enough resources to fill them (money in UFA or high draft picks now sans the 2nd rounder).
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigs, I get your stance. And I think it's more likely, but would you really be upset if we drafted Geno?

Crazy the difference a year makes. At the start of the college football season, Matt Barkley was gonna be the guy for many folks. Then Geno blew it up, and we were chanting blow for Geno.

Now...we're thinking, hmm, who will be there in round 4.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
Bigs, I get your stance. And I think it's more likely, but would you really be upset if we drafted Geno?

Crazy the difference a year makes. At the start of the college football season, Matt Barkley was gonna be the guy for many folks. Then Geno blew it up, and we were chanting blow for Geno.

Now...we're thinking, hmm, who will be there in round 4.

I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Geno, but I would begin to question the rationale of all of the moves we've made.

We gave up quite a bit for a QB. If you weren't pretty sold on him being the guy for at least one season without competition, then that was a mistake.

We then backed ourselves into a corner FA wise, in that we have no money left to fill legit holes in our roster, so now only really have the draft to look to.

If you were to then spend a #1 overall pick on a QB, and on a player that if the first decision was a good one, should not see the field for AT LEAST 2 years, I would be very concerned.

For me it would indicate either an over-valuing of the impact of the QB position (essentially spending both a 1st and 2nd, plus a future 3rd on TWO QB's), under-valuing the importance of positions like DE, CB, and ILB, or under-valuing draft picks in general, or some combination there of.

It would be concerning.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
We've got too many holes and not enough green to fill them in FA. We need a day one starter in the 1st, be it DE, CB, or LT if we move Albert or convince him to play OG. I suppose you could argue ILB, Safety, or WR, but those would only be options in a trade down scenario IMO.


Bigs, with the way Bowe's contract is structured, it looks like we can now land a starter in FA (CB?)....then one with pick #1 (DL?), and certainly we can find a starter at ILB as that position isn't of high value and we can find starter quality in rounds 3-5. With who we re-signed, that's plenty good enough to contend for the playoffs or more depending on how the pieces fit. Lewis is fine as a starter, we just need depth there in the mid rounds and Baldwin is still obviously intriguing. But we can also grab a WR in the 3rd and still get ILB,S, and TE with picks 3-5.

But Tyson and Colquitt's deals through the savings on Bowe out the window. In my head I had been figuring $9MM for Bowe, $4MM for Tyson, and under $3MM for Colquitt, which is $16MM total. Based on what I've seen, that group now totals just under $15MM for 2013.


Alright...gotcha. Then it appears my mock that suggested we re-sign all our own and get no starters in FA is definitley still in the picture.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=515312
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For me it would indicate either an over-valuing of the impact of the QB position (essentially spending both a 1st and 2nd, plus a future 3rd on TWO QB's), under-valuing the importance of positions like DE, CB, and ILB, or under-valuing draft picks in general, or some combination there of.


I think Dorsey's pedigree clearly will show that he doesn't "under" value draft picks. But he could be stepping out and trying to make his own name.

I could certainly see undervaluing CB because Reid is famous for playing mid-late round CBs.

Like I said, I highly doubt we draft Geno, though I do feel it is important to indicate we would.
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jimmydee


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those criticizing Smith and giving a 2nd round pick for him...consider this. Look who is available at #34 and decide in your mind if that 34th pick can bring to the table what an experiened QB with good coaching before he got here, can bring. I think you'll be satisfied with our "2nd" pick in the 2013 draft.

Number 2: If we draft Geno at #1 (whick I highly doubt) we'd better be ready to turn it over to him by mid year one or certainly year two. If Smith runs off 3-5 years of good QB play and Geno tests the market after his rookie contract and leaves, we spent a #1 pick on somebody who didn't even start for us. Geno better be THAT good at the #1 pick....he's not proven that yet and likely won't. Yep, he'll be above average, but not worth the 1st pick in the draft, IMHO.

Right this minute I see an OT or CB (which would be rare), perhaps a DL...all depends on FA and who Andy likes now, better than developing someone.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
I could certainly see undervaluing CB because Reid is famous for playing mid-late round CBs.

Confused Reid traded for Asante Samuel, drafted Lito Sheppard high, signed a big time deal for Scrabble, and traded for DRC. I don't think you can argue he under-values the CB position. Maybe he doesn't feel confident in drafting good players there, but he definitely puts the resources towards the position.
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Chiefs_5627


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimmydee wrote:
For those criticizing Smith and giving a 2nd round pick for him...consider this. Look who is available at #34 and decide in your mind if that 34th pick can bring to the table what an experiened QB with good coaching before he got here, can bring. I think you'll be satisfied with our "2nd" pick in the 2013 draft.

Number 2: If we draft Geno at #1 (whick I highly doubt) we'd better be ready to turn it over to him by mid year one or certainly year two. If Smith runs off 3-5 years of good QB play and Geno tests the market after his rookie contract and leaves, we spent a #1 pick on somebody who didn't even start for us. Geno better be THAT good at the #1 pick....he's not proven that yet and likely won't. Yep, he'll be above average, but not worth the 1st pick in the draft, IMHO.

Right this minute I see an OT or CB (which would be rare), perhaps a DL...all depends on FA and who Andy likes now, better than developing someone.


One thing that still reverberates in my head is the fact that Alex does only have 2 years left on his contract so I'm not 100% sure we just skip over Geno knowing that without a new deal Alex literally cant rattle of 3 - 5 years. Maybe Andy sees the flaws in the footwork but loves everything else and thinks Geno will be a star once corrected and is willing to let him marinate for a year kinda how the Titans went with Hass and Locker. Or maybe I'm still just justifying in my own mind cuz I still want us to take Geno. Wink
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