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resilient


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1597
Location: where old school ballers go to die
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devin Kurant wrote:
seminoles1 wrote:
resilient wrote:
Using your theory (which I like) of "best and greatest" perhaps the Bob Cousys and E Baylors of that ERA have a better resume than Dirk, therefor making them "greater" but based on Skills on the court, it's not really close.
Agreed.


Here's a kind of interesting question for anyone.

Where would you rank Michael Jordan all time if he never won any titles?


It would have to be less because no titles means he didn't hit those game winning shots (Utah and Cleveland for example) therefor he would have been less clutch. But greatness SHOULDN'T be just about titles any way. There are many things that should be factored in. How one plays in crunch-time in big games (playoffs ect.) is my biggest factoring in a player's greatness.

Hence Jordan being a top 3 player. Won't say #1 just because of the value of great centers (in my mind) possibly being a bigger asset to winning ect..
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Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 2824
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devin Kurant wrote:
seminoles1 wrote:
resilient wrote:
Using your theory (which I like) of "best and greatest" perhaps the Bob Cousys and E Baylors of that ERA have a better resume than Dirk, therefor making them "greater" but based on Skills on the court, it's not really close.
Agreed.


Here's a kind of interesting question for anyone.

Where would you rank Michael Jordan all time if he never won any titles?


That'd mean he went 0-6 in the finals Shocked

I don't know how you could then make an argument that he's top 3, maybe top 5, def still top 10 though.
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Oregon Ducks


Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 16849
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underrated: Gary Payton & Ray Allen
Overrated: Carmelo & Vince Carter
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Oregon RB Tracker
Marshall: 383 rush yds(7.7), 814 rec yds(13.3), 6 TDs
Tyner: 387 rush yds(4.4), 65 rec yds(7.2), 4 TDs
Freeman: 1299 rush yds(5.6), 139 rec yds(9.9), 17 TDs
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 21510
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon Ducks wrote:
Underrated: Gary Payton & Ray Allen
Overrated: Carmelo & Vince Carter


No homer?
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IDOG_det on the incredible sig!
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Oregon Ducks


Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 16849
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
Oregon Ducks wrote:
Underrated: Gary Payton & Ray Allen
Overrated: Carmelo & Vince Carter


No homer?

Do you disagree!? Evil or Very Mad
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Marshall: 383 rush yds(7.7), 814 rec yds(13.3), 6 TDs
Tyner: 387 rush yds(4.4), 65 rec yds(7.2), 4 TDs
Freeman: 1299 rush yds(5.6), 139 rec yds(9.9), 17 TDs
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DougE14


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 9522
Location: Belleville, Illinois
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook.
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Mossburg


Most Valuable Poster (4th Ballot)
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 43937
Location: Straight Cash Inc. Headquarters
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^Why or?
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne87reggie wrote:
Devin Kurant wrote:
Dr. Philly wrote:
Pippen did carry a team, just a really bad call that blew their chances in 94. 95 they just got dominated.


Dirk's Mavs in 06 were screwed by many bad calls that cost them the title.


Lets not talk about Dirk getting screwed on calls, he has recieved plenty that he shouldnt have!


The 2006 Finals were ridiculously bad in terms of officiating. The NBA was doing whatever it took to ensure that Wade could be their next poster boy SG.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas was gifted game 3 and 4 against the Spurs. So in the end, Mavs fans have no right to complain about the officiating because if officiating was perfect, they'd ever be in the finals.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 21510
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon Ducks wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Oregon Ducks wrote:
Underrated: Gary Payton & Ray Allen
Overrated: Carmelo & Vince Carter


No homer?

Do you disagree!? Evil or Very Mad


I think Ray and Gary are rated pretty fairly.

Everyone knows how awesome the Glove was.

Ray is regarded as the best pure shooter ever.
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Devin Kurant


Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 4297
Location: Baylor University
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
Dallas was gifted game 3 and 4 against the Spurs. So in the end, Mavs fans have no right to complain about the officiating because if officiating was perfect, they'd ever be in the finals.


Maybe so. But the Heat series in 06 was arguably the worst officiated series ever along with the 02 Lakers/Kings series. Wade had what 106 free throws the whole series? More FT than our entire team in one game? 2 or 3 crucial calls at the end of games that were no where near close to a foul?

Dirk did miss a key free throw and Josh Howard really screwed us with the timeout but the officiating was one sided.
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wayne87reggie


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 13751
Location: #Re2pect
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devin Kurant wrote:
Mossburg wrote:
Dallas was gifted game 3 and 4 against the Spurs. So in the end, Mavs fans have no right to complain about the officiating because if officiating was perfect, they'd ever be in the finals.


Maybe so. But the Heat series in 06 was arguably the worst officiated series ever along with the 02 Lakers/Kings series. Wade had what 106 free throws the whole series? More FT than our entire team in one game? 2 or 3 crucial calls at the end of games that were no where near close to a foul?

Dirk did miss a key free throw and Josh Howard really screwed us with the timeout but the officiating was one sided.


How about Dirk just shot 39% from field and 25% from 3pt range in the finals!

Also if the Mavs could of finished of game 3 probably would of been a total different series! Mavs up 2-0 had 13 point lead with 6:34 left! D Wade took over! Scored 12 points the rest of the quarter, then took the momentum the rest of the way through the series!

If Dallas could of held that lead, Finals would of probably went your way! would of been up 3-0!

6-5 fouls called in that final 6 minutes!!

D Wade was unbelievable in that finals!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200606130MIA.html

TBH, I never want to here Dallas fans complaining about calls! How many times has Dirk had 20+ FTs games, while mainly shooting free throw/wing fade away jumpers!
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Oregon Ducks


Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 16849
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
Oregon Ducks wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Oregon Ducks wrote:
Underrated: Gary Payton & Ray Allen
Overrated: Carmelo & Vince Carter


No homer?

Do you disagree!? Evil or Very Mad


I think Ray and Gary are rated pretty fairly.

Everyone knows how awesome the Glove was.

Ray is regarded as the best pure shooter ever.
Nobody talks about Gary being one of the best PGs of all time...which he is.

Ray is mostly seen as a shooter, but the dude could carry a team with his all around game in his prime.
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Oregon RB Tracker
Marshall: 383 rush yds(7.7), 814 rec yds(13.3), 6 TDs
Tyner: 387 rush yds(4.4), 65 rec yds(7.2), 4 TDs
Freeman: 1299 rush yds(5.6), 139 rec yds(9.9), 17 TDs
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simonwayne


Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 14731
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I don't understand about 2006 and 2002 is why the NBA doesn't just admit that those were bad officiated games and fire the officials or something? Or at least acknowledge that they are working to make sure that wont happen again?

The officials working those series (none named Tim Donaghy) weren't even punished at all. It makes me speculate that the orders were coming in from up top. And if the league would just fire the officials to save its image they would rat out the league just like Donaghy did.

Man the officiating in this sport needs a completely overhaul. It still amazes me how accepted it is by NBA fans that superstars just get more calls than everyone else and thats just the way it is. How boss would it be if Adam Silver just came out and acknowledged this problem and said that it isn't going to be a problem anymore.
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sdrawkcab321


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 10680
Location: Cleveland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonwayne wrote:
What I don't understand about 2006 and 2002 is why the NBA doesn't just admit that those were bad officiated games and fire the officials or something? Or at least acknowledge that they are working to make sure that wont happen again?

The officials working those series (none named Tim Donaghy) weren't even punished at all. It makes me speculate that the orders were coming in from up top. And if the league would just fire the officials to save its image they would rat out the league just like Donaghy did.

Man the officiating in this sport needs a completely overhaul. It still amazes me how accepted it is by NBA fans that superstars just get more calls than everyone else and thats just the way it is. How boss would it be if Adam Silver just came out and acknowledged this problem and said that it isn't going to be a problem anymore.


Why would they ever admit to bad officiating ? If they did this then they would have to come out and apologize for every missed call. There's no way they will ever do this. And they shouldn't. It was years ago and most fans have forgotten
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