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Prime Holmes vs. Current Brown
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Who is better?
Prime Holmes
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Current Brown
84%
 84%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 19

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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Josh C Smith wrote:
Santonio was a very good WR. But Brown is a probowl caliber WR. Brown is awesome and that was a great trade we made to get the 5th for Holmes then trade that to get Bryant McFadden and the 6th round pick we used on Brown. Brown all the way.
Is that how that worked?

Thanks, I never knew.

Who did the Steelers take with the 5th round pick they got in return for Holmes?

Must not have been anyone good, because I can't remember.


As I recall we got the Jets 5th and then traded that to Arizona for McFadden, Arizona used that pick to get John Skelton (who recently signed with Tennnessee). Pick #195 was also included in that trade...Pick 195 was indeed Antonio Brown....Who would've thunk it. Amazing... You know I'm gonna use that one in the future...

I'm not usually one to use statistics to make comparisons but one player I reminded of when I think of Brown is Reggie Wayne. After that I'm inclined to take a look at Reggie's career stats...Check out Antonio's vs Reggie's 1st 4 years.
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Last edited by JustPlainNasty on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Josh C Smith wrote:
Santonio was a very good WR. But Brown is a probowl caliber WR. Brown is awesome and that was a great trade we made to get the 5th for Holmes then trade that to get Bryant McFadden and the 6th round pick we used on Brown. Brown all the way.
Is that how that worked?

Thanks, I never knew.

Who did the Steelers take with the 5th round pick they got in return for Holmes?

Must not have been anyone good, because I can't remember.


As I recall we got the Jets 5th and then traded that to Arizona for McFadden, Arizona used that pick to get John Skelton (who recently signed with Tennnessee). Pick #195 was also included in that trade...Pick 195 was indeed Antonio Brown....Who would've thunk it. Amazing... You know I'm gonna use that one in the future...
Ok thanks, make sense. I was just researching it and still couldn't figure it out! Lmao Laughing
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The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was Santonio's prime one year? Because that's about all I can think of, one good year. And I don't really think he got progressively better since joining the league.

AB has gotten better every year he's played, and is now a guy that can be counted on for 5-10 receptions every game, and is a good multi-dimensional receiver. He can pretty much do it all. He has some drops here and there, but in terms of how many balls he's catching, you can live with that.

I'd take him over Santonio any day.
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grubs10


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:

Brown is catching 70% of the passes thrown his way. Doing it at a higher rate than Calvin Johnson.


Your better than this CK. How many bubble screens has AB had this year? How many times does Calvin get the ball thrown to him in double coverage because he is still the best option they have? Its just an unnecessary and misleading comparison.

I love AB and think his consistency and work ethic dwarf Santonio. I think their hands are about even since AB still has had a couple "big" drops this year. Santonio probably has better top speed but Brown is more agile in the open field.

Its easy to say now because Santonio was traded to a scrub quarterback in the prime of his career and Brown has been a part of Ben's prime as a passer but I am taking AB out of the two for sure.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Your better than this CK. How many bubble screens has AB had this year? How many times does Calvin get the ball thrown to him in double coverage because he is still the best option they have? Its just an unnecessary and misleading comparison.


Point wasn't that AB > Johnson, an argument I would never make. It was just pointing out a stat. Brown has been money for the most part, though he's had some drops at poor moments. Johnson had one of his own today, though, that cost his team a win. When you are the WR getting targeted so often, you are going to see some drops and bad plays, too.

Argument here is that Brown is playing much better than Holmes ever did on a weekly basis. But that SOB was clutch. There were still two games in 2008 that his laziness hurt the team. His poor route against Indy, and I'm drawing a blank on the other one though I've pointed it out quite a few times.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:

Your better than this CK. How many bubble screens has AB had this year? How many times does Calvin get the ball thrown to him in double coverage because he is still the best option they have? Its just an unnecessary and misleading comparison.


Point wasn't that AB > Johnson, an argument I would never make. It was just pointing out a stat. Brown has been money for the most part, though he's had some drops at poor moments. Johnson had one of his own today, though, that cost his team a win. When you are the WR getting targeted so often, you are going to see some drops and bad plays, too.

Argument here is that Brown is playing much better than Holmes ever did on a weekly basis. But that SOB was clutch. There were still two games in 2008 that his laziness hurt the team. His poor route against Indy, and I'm drawing a blank on the other one though I've pointed it out quite a few times.


I agree with this completely.

Until the 2008 postseason, most viewed him as merely a solid WR that had upside to be great but was too inconsistent. No arguing his clutch ability, but Brown's first few seasons as starter have been more impressive than Holmes IMO.

They are relatively equal in terms of general talent....but Brown is a much smarter player.
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The Curtain


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not like Brown doesn't make some clutch catches for us. We'd never move the chains if he didn't. Keep in mind that Santonio was playing in an era of Steelers football where every game came down to the wire, and we were SB contenders every year. So maybe the "clutch" is a bit exaggerated.

I feel like everyone was waiting on Santonio to be GREAT, but he never progressed past above average...at times. And with the way his injuries happened since going to NY, it's better we moved on. Antonio gets better every week. He beat Joe freaking Haden today...not many WR's are doing that. A move like paying Antonio Brown as early as the Steelers did shows that their FO may not be as clueless as we think, since it was questioned pretty heavily at the time.

In other former Steelers WR news, anyone see Mike Wallace drop the game winning TD on Sunday? It was a scene familiar to Steeler fans. A deep ball thrown where only Wallace could get it, tough catch to make but the kind of tough catch you'd expect him to make...annnnnnnnnd dropped. He simply cannot catch a ball if it's not in the right spot.
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Steeler Hitman


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
Steeler Hitman wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
I don't think Holmes entire route tree was better than Brown's, matter of fact I don't recall it being close. Santonio had one or two very effective routes and his explosiveness out of the route was almost unmatched.

I'd take AB in a heartbeat given the chance, work ethic, which is obvious wins big with me.


Hi Nasty:

I disagree about the route running. Holmes was a better overall WR prospect coming out of college and early on in their careers.

I think that Holmes route running improved tremendously, especially from year one up to now. The fact that he had success with a few routes doesn't negate the fact that he improved with several other routes as well. His explosiveness out of the cut sometimes led to some rounded cuts and the now ever so popular WR push-off on routes that makes route running look bad. However, that is today's NFL. The solid route running of past greats like Charlie Joyner, Steve Largent, or Andre' Reed are not as important in today's offensive friendly NFL.

Brown has had to work harder at being a better overall WR (particularly his route running and separation from the DB). He is much better this year than he was in 2012.

Holmes route running, knack for the big play and ability to play his best when it mattered was definitely missed in the 2010 Super Bowl and that season.

Holmes off season work-out and work ethic is at the top of just about anyone else in the entire NFL. Brown's desire to succeed at his craft helped him make a dramatic leap from year one of barely making the roster to becoming a starter and moving ahead of Emmanuel Sanders who was also a better pro WR prospect coming out of college. While they are close in many areas because they are similar type WR's, I do agree that Brown now has a better NFL ceiling than Holmes.


I don't think you completed your thought or I'm missing something..


Sorry that I didn't see this sooner Nasty. I will clarify my answers.

You said you disagree about the route running but then finished with saying AB has worked harder and ultimately runs better routes but it doesn't matter in today's in NFL?


I wasn't saying that AB ran better routes or works harder than Santonio. I was saying that Santonio is a more complete and polished WR, but that AB has had to work harder at the things like route running and getting separation from the DB's than a more polished prospect like Holmes.

Holmes was a better prospect as a #1 draft choice and more complete coming out of college. AB worked hard to up his overall game, but I think Holmes is better at some things than AB,however, I think AB has a higher ceiling and more potential at this point in their careers.

Route running is important, but with today's offensive friendly rule changes it is not as important as back in the day or even a few years ago.

I hope I clarified without sounding too much like a politician.
Very Happy



I'm not really trying to give you a hard time but it seems you presented a better case for Brown than Holmes but disagreed with your own given details?

No offense taken Nasty. I know you aren't giving me a hard time.
I said all along that I prefer AB. I was merely highlighting some of Holmes qualities and doing a sort of compare and contrast between the two.


I think one thing is true Holmes has some more natural talent in the explosive category a gift that few have. Antonio does well and is good quick in his own right, but I was always amazed at how Santonio could gain yards in separation, in a sense similar to ability that Troy has in closing speed, its kind of instinctual or was? when he gets that ball in his hands. I can't say Ive watched him anytime recently because he seems to be too often injured.


I think Holmes has better body control and knows how to adjust with the ball in the air to get in position to make a catch. AB is still growing in that area. I agree with you that some things are just God-given talents. Each player has their own unique good qualities and bad. I still would take AB over Holmes at this point. I hope I didn't confuse you even more. Laughing
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3rivers


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
I dont think Holmes entire route tree was better than Brown's, matter of fact I dont recall it being close. Santonio had one or two very effective routes and his explosiveness out of the route was almost unmatched.

I'd take AB in a heartbeat given the chance, work ethic, which is obvious wins big with me.


I agree, but still remember that last drive in the SB43, Holmes was clutch with one of the greatest catches in crunch time history. Applause

Lucky 6th round pick AB turned out well, because sanders and wallace didn't and of course sweed isn't even in the league. Rolling Eyes 6th round pick might be the best player on the team.
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LTF


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time I see this thread my mind reads it as "Priest Holmes vs. Current Brown" and I start trying to figure out how a comparison of Priest Holmes and Antonio Brown could possibly work. Laughing

In his prime Steeler days, I think Santonio and Desean Jackson were the best YAC WRs in the NFL (throw in Greg Jennings as well). Holmes was so explosive with the ball in his hands. Generally, I think Brown is a quicker, savvier player, and I think he's got a similar clutch gene as Holmes had (think back to the '10 playoffs and the big catches Brown made as a rookie to essentially win both the games against the Ravens and Jets). It's a very tough comparison....I think prime Holmes would be putting up huge numbers here as well if the best two options other than him were Manny Sanders and a not 100%/aged Heath Miller....not to take away from what Brown is doing. Pretty equal players as far as I see it.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LTF wrote:
Every time I see this thread my mind reads it as "Priest Holmes vs. Current Brown" and I start trying to figure out how a comparison of Priest Holmes and Antonio Brown could possibly work. Laughing

In his prime Steeler days, I think Santonio and Desean Jackson were the best YAC WRs in the NFL (throw in Greg Jennings as well). Holmes was so explosive with the ball in his hands. Generally, I think Brown is a quicker, savvier player, and I think he's got a similar clutch gene as Holmes had (think back to the '10 playoffs and the big catches Brown made as a rookie to essentially win both the games against the Ravens and Jets). It's a very tough comparison....I think prime Holmes would be putting up huge numbers here as well if the best two options other than him were Manny Sanders and a not 100%/aged Heath Miller....not to take away from what Brown is doing. Pretty equal players as far as I see it.


First time I saw the title without looking closely, I also thought it said Preist Holmes.
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1BackInBlackFan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Glad to see I wasn't the only one who did that. lol

I do think Brown is a more complete player so he would be my choice. Holmes was faster though. They both are electric in the open field, well at least Holmes was in his prime. I liked Holmes a lot when he was here. He was the one I wanted them to draft at that time. His off-the-field problems grew tiresome though. He really stepped up on the big stage as we all remember. I will say I wasn't pleased when they traded him but as usually is the case when WRs leave the Steelers rarely do they have the same success on another team.

Brown has really shown he can be a go-to guy. Signing him to an extension was a brilliant move on the Steelers part even though at the time I did question the timing of it. He easily has been the team's MVP so far this season. He's been the team's most consistent player from the start of the year. I would even say he's underrated by some around the league but not by Steeler fans. He and Roethlisberger have good chemistry.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both very similar players, but I've never seen the consistency from Holmes as I do with Brown, as others have said.

and so I'd have to go with Brown.
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