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Who is the best young QB?
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Who is the best young QB right now?
Russell Wilson
34%
 34%  [ 66 ]
Cam Newton
19%
 19%  [ 37 ]
Nick Foles
10%
 10%  [ 20 ]
Andrew Luck
27%
 27%  [ 54 ]
Colin Kaepernick
2%
 2%  [ 5 ]
Robert Griffin III
2%
 2%  [ 5 ]
Other...
3%
 3%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 194

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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 45887
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wee-Bey wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
If being top 5 in TDs and TD:Int ratio as well as being on pace for 32 TDs to 9 ints before he went down is mediocre...I'll take it.



His level of play was above average through 7 games. Congratulations.

Quote:
Give me mediocrity.



He has, hence the mediocrity of the Rams since he was drafted.


So then he wasn't mediocre this year? Good to know.

And I should also point out that he was dominant when he didn't have the NFL's worst rushing attack. When Stacy took over, Bradford had a dominant 3 game stretch before getting hurt against Carolina. The stats don't really even do it justice...which is saying a lot because he was 2nd in the NFL with a 111.1 QB Rating over those 3 games.

I know...I know...just 3 games. But 3 games that earned him another shot with me next year and inspired a lot of confidence.

That all said, if the Rams could get Bridgewater, I'd still take him.

As far as him being to blame for the Rams mediocrity...the failure of the team doesn't fall on one player...neither does the success.
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baconrad3


Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
Holy cow people sure love to overreact after onw game Laughing


I dont think people are so much overreacting to one game much as they are simply reacting to another silly "Luck is easily the best" type comment....especially when the blind prediction went belly up.

And yes...Ring Werm Sherm is just as big of a nonsensical homer as Django.


oh I definitely agree with you on that. None of these guys are far ahead of the.other at the moment


And the predraft Luck hype was.overboard. But blame the media and the trolling homers for that, but dont blame Luck.

Hes a great young qb and I think we can all just agree on that. He looks like he.could be.a top 5 qb in a few years or so. Maybe Wilson gets there first, maybe he doesnt. Its quite possible. I see nothing about Wilson that makes me think hes gonna be anything but.great or elite. But same with Luck. And Cam. I thnk those three be.their generations version of Rodgers, Brady, Brees, etc. Other than them Im not sure.


How I see it.playing out:

Top 5 QBs (Elite) *Note theres no order in each specific rank
Andrew Luck
Russell Wilson
Cam Newton

Top 10 QBs (Will be great players similar to Romo, Rivers, Ryan, etc)
Nick Foles
Matthew Stafford
Robert Griffin (pending on his health)

Top 12-15 QBs (similar to a Cutler sort of. IE prob a franchise QB who can lead teams to playoffs a lot, but might or might not takee leap to the great/elite level)
Ryan Tannehill
Colin Kaepernick
Andy Dalton
Geno Smith (premature.but I like him)
EJ Manuel
Sam Bradford (pending health)

Eventual journeyman backups:
Jake Locker
Christian Ponder


Unknown: Mike Glennon, Terrelle Pryor



As for this incoming class....

Bridgewater: Elite. Top 5
Bortles: Top 10
Carr: Top 10
Manziel: Similar to Pryor. Might show flashes and make some starts but eventually becomes a backup. Maybe similar to Ponder or Locker
Boyd: Unknow.. Could be a solid starter or a valuable backup.
Mariota: Like Kaep. Dont see him being great or elite but could be good. Closer to unknow. Not his.biggest fan.
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Wee-Bey


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiseman101 wrote:
Cam, Russell and Luck are all at the same level

Luck is good but was severely overhyped by the media


They aren't all at the same level, Wilson and Cam are better. This is pretty clear at this point.

baconrad3 wrote:
Holy cow people sure love to overreact after onw game Laughing


This isn't an overreaction one game, this is a building reaction to the whole of his career. Which, to this point, has been marginally better than Andy Dalton's. He's an average QB, with average production, leading an average team.

Quote:
Luck stunk today. No denying that. Losing Allen and Wayne is proving to be tough for him and its understandable. They were two of his best three targets. Hiltons good.hes just not a #1 wr. Indy needs to grab a wr in the second this year. Waynes getting old and Hiltons better suited in the slot.


Top level quarterbacks are expected to be able to elevate the play of their receiving corps, regardless of who mans it. Struggles are excusable, sure, but complete mediocrity is not.

For years we've seen the best quarterbacks in the NFL maintain high levels play despite lacking talent on the outside. So if Andrew Luck is that, the expectations should be no less. Never mind that Kaep, and RGIII have played with receiving corps that are no more talented yet haven't been excused for playing poorly.

Quote:
I realize Wilson was better against AZ. But you cant sit there and use that as an excuse for him being better. Luck did better against SF.....but that also means little.


There's no need to cherry pick games where ones has played better than the other. If you look at the whole of this season, Wilson has been better, period. Same is true for their careers.

Quote:
Saying Wilson is easily, far and away better is trollig just like saying it about Luck.


No, it isn't, because theres ample evidence to make that argument. Production, wins, consistency, etc. These are objective, and there's enough there that a case for Wilson being a markedly better QB can be legitimized.

Quote:
Theyre.both very close. And Luck has more advantages aside from "just being tall and being picked first" . Again, youre trolling just as much as the Luck fanboys.


What are these advantages, and how have they translated positively for either for his team, or his production(TD/INT)?

Quote:
I think those two and Cam are ahead of the pack and honestly I cant decide whos better. They each have their advantages and arguments of their own for being better.


People need to stop placing Luck in the same tier as Wilson and Newton without legitimate reasoning. His team isn't as good as theirs(appear to be falling apart, actually), and he hasn't been as individually productive, impressive, nor consistent.

Quote:
Lets not forget how impressive Luck has been in most other games this year.


He's been mediocre this season, just like last season. Stop projecting his pre draft hype into his actual level of play.
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eagles18 wrote:
With the exception of the 4 INTs that Luck threw, he played admirable.
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Wee-Bey


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 670
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
So then he wasn't mediocre this year? Good to know.


I didn't specify a year, merely quantified his quality relative to his peers.

Quote:
And I should also point out that he was dominant when he didn't have the NFL's worst rushing attack. When Stacy took over, Bradford had a dominant 3 game stretch before getting hurt against Carolina. The stats don't really even do it justice...which is saying a lot because he was 2nd in the NFL with a 111.1 QB Rating over those 3 games.

I know...I know...just 3 games. But 3 games that earned him another shot with me next year and inspired a lot of confidence.


Mediocre players have played above their heads before, and will again. These are natural peaks and valleys.
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eagles18 wrote:
With the exception of the 4 INTs that Luck threw, he played admirable.
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baconrad3


Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bradfords had a pretty good rookie season (albeit a tad overrated but good nonetheless).

Sophomore slump. Not rare.

Third year he was pretty darn good. Dk why people fail to acknowledge how impressive he was in 2012.

Then this year he started to really come around until the unfortunate injury.

You act as if hes never played well until this season.

Youre underrating him a lot.



Also.Laughing at saying Luck isnt nearly as good as Cam or Wilson. He ia righr there with him. Statistically Russ has been better. Sorry but stats arent the be all end all in evaluating qb play. Watching Luck its easy to see.how good he is.

Love.all.three of em.

If I had.to choose one for long term.....its Luck just by preference
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wee-Bey wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
So then he wasn't mediocre this year? Good to know.


I didn't specify a year, merely quantified his quality relative to his peers.

Quote:
And I should also point out that he was dominant when he didn't have the NFL's worst rushing attack. When Stacy took over, Bradford had a dominant 3 game stretch before getting hurt against Carolina. The stats don't really even do it justice...which is saying a lot because he was 2nd in the NFL with a 111.1 QB Rating over those 3 games.

I know...I know...just 3 games. But 3 games that earned him another shot with me next year and inspired a lot of confidence.


Mediocre players have played above their heads before, and will again. These are natural peaks and valleys.


Except we didn't get to see if it was a "peak" or a "valley". What we saw was a guy that had clearly improved in 2012 from his first 2 years and then this year, we saw a guy that had improved from 2012.

He was only 25 years old when the year started. So we have no way of knowing whether it was a young player improving or simply a player playing better than he is.

Regardless, I don't care what Bradford was in 2011 or 2010. If you're calling him a mediocre player today, you're saying he's mediocre now. Not mediocre in the past.

I think we agreed that he wasn't mediocre this year. So it's a misnomer. I guess we'll see if he returns to mediocrity next year.
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Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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Wee-Bey


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 670
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
Youre underrating him a lot.



No, I'm not. He's an average quarterback, just like Luck, and very little about his career to this point indicates otherwise.

Quote:
Also.Laughing at saying Luck isnt nearly as good as Cam or Wilson. He ia righr there with him. Statistically Russ has been better. Sorry but stats arent the be all end all in evaluating qb play. Watching Luck its easy to see.how good he is.


No, stats aren't the only manner of quarterback evaluation, but they are one of them. One that is very important, and one far more relevant than your opinion, your eyes, or any other biased argumentation.

We can get into an analysis of pocket awareness, arm talent, decision making, and athleticism, but Luck wouldn't come out favorably in that comparison either.

Quote:
Love.all.three of em.

If I had.to choose one for long term.....its Luck just by preference



This isn't a matter of affection. Your emotions, your preferences, your opinions: they're irrelevant. By the traditional methods of quarterback evaluation, which includes statistical analysis, Luck falls below Wilson and Newton. This is inarguable.
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eagles18 wrote:
With the exception of the 4 INTs that Luck threw, he played admirable.


Last edited by Wee-Bey on Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:41 am; edited 3 times in total
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Wee-Bey


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Except we didn't get to see if it was a "peak" or a "valley". What we saw was a guy that had clearly improved in 2012 from his first 2 years and then this year, we saw a guy that had improved from 2012.

He was only 25 years old when the year started. So we have no way of knowing whether it was a young player improving or simply a player playing better than he is.

Regardless, I don't care what Bradford was in 2011 or 2010. If you're calling him a mediocre player today, you're saying he's mediocre now. Not mediocre in the past.


Bradford's performance this season, as well as his production, fits within the frame of variation you'd expect from a player of his quality. Statistically, he was marginally better, but the sample isn't even half a season large and had the benefit of being leveled with games against Jacksonville and Houston. When he was up against the better teams the Rams played, he was typical Bradford.
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eagles18 wrote:
With the exception of the 4 INTs that Luck threw, he played admirable.
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CP3MVP


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how you have luck over Cam
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Jaguarfan wrote:
Steelerspower wrote:
He is very good.....in garbage time

.......Which is all the time when you're the Raiders.
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tom cody


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I'm going with Cam Newton.
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reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not buying the supporting cast excuse because we have been fed with "Luck does everything, hes the perfect QB". Not saying that has been said but thats certainly how its come across. Now i still think him and Cam will prove to be the best. The supporting cast excuse is valid but i dont want to here it tbh.
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Django


Joined: 03 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Django wrote:
The same defense that gave Cam the worst game of the season. .......Luck will torch that defense. Luck and the Colts will establish why he's the best young QB today.










Great call, brah.
Luck still wasn't as bad as Cam against the Cards. Laughing This might have been Lucks 2nd worst game of the season. ..he put up similar #s to Cam today. ..pays to have a great defense bail you out.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:
Cam and Wilson are proving to be 1a/b to me.


Yep right now, there isnt any other answer. Anybody that says Wilson is head and shoulders better should be ashamed of themselves.

Watch people now ignore Luck's performance. Watch Cowherd ignore it.
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eagles18


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After yesterday i have realized that andrew luck has NO ONE on offense! It's sad to see really.


I've been team Peyton Manning for years now, but after last night there should be no doubt that Brady is the greatest of all time. He's CLUTCH
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Django


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the deal. If you did a "traditional pro bowl vote" for AFC. It would go Manning, Luck and whoever else for THIS YEAR. He's done more than Big Ben and Rivers this year. The media doesn't even judge Luck vs. other young QBs. They say he's the best of the young crew and compare him with vets. ESPN, NFL NETWORK, PROFOOTBALLTALK. ..all consider Luck the best. Now maybe I'm wrong for cosigning him by far the best. I'll admit that. He's the best but others are close
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