Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Josh Freeman had problems in Minny.. Didnt see that coming
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 8175
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Another Rick Spielman gem Laughing I am glad he gets to pick the Vikings next failure at QB, the guy really never seems to be right about that position Laughing


go back under your bridge plz thx
Great reply. Wanna tell me about all the All Pro's Spielman has drafted at QB? He said he was high on Freeman in the draft too, a guy with a poor work ethic, did he not do his homework? Spielman has been a total flop with QB's and Frazier was the one who took the bullet. Frazier was a sub par coach but Spielman gets a free pass.


Frazier was the one who brought in McNabb. Frazier was involved in the drafting of Christian Ponder, too, and when asked about drafting Ponder over Dalton, Leslie said "We targeted Christian, and it worked out fine. He was our guy."

When the Vikings drafted Ponder, I remember a few highly regarded posters saying how great of a pick it was. You know what team those fans supported?

Your Packers. I guess they didn't know what they were talking about, either.

But yeah, Spielman is totally to blame 100%. It was Frazier's decision to play him after signing him 10 days. It was Frazier's decision not to bench Ponder until the last quarter of the season. Spielman took a low risk, high reward signing a former first round pick who had shown many flashes of being able to be a good starter in the league. Rick doesn't have the greatest resume of drafting QB's, but your analysis is ignorant to say the least.
Everybody always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy. Not Frazier's but Frazier would never throw Ponder under the bus right after they drafted him. I don't care about Freeman's contract, it's the fact that Spielman liked him in the draft. All the local media guys have always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy, not Frazier's. Spielman is 0 for... When picking QB's. I don't understand why most Vikings fans love Spielman. What has he done outside of the 1st round that was really huge? A kicker?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SodakViking


Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 1670
Location: 605
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Another Rick Spielman gem Laughing I am glad he gets to pick the Vikings next failure at QB, the guy really never seems to be right about that position Laughing


go back under your bridge plz thx
Great reply. Wanna tell me about all the All Pro's Spielman has drafted at QB? He said he was high on Freeman in the draft too, a guy with a poor work ethic, did he not do his homework? Spielman has been a total flop with QB's and Frazier was the one who took the bullet. Frazier was a sub par coach but Spielman gets a free pass.


Frazier was the one who brought in McNabb. Frazier was involved in the drafting of Christian Ponder, too, and when asked about drafting Ponder over Dalton, Leslie said "We targeted Christian, and it worked out fine. He was our guy."

When the Vikings drafted Ponder, I remember a few highly regarded posters saying how great of a pick it was. You know what team those fans supported?

Your Packers. I guess they didn't know what they were talking about, either.

But yeah, Spielman is totally to blame 100%. It was Frazier's decision to play him after signing him 10 days. It was Frazier's decision not to bench Ponder until the last quarter of the season. Spielman took a low risk, high reward signing a former first round pick who had shown many flashes of being able to be a good starter in the league. Rick doesn't have the greatest resume of drafting QB's, but your analysis is ignorant to say the least.
Everybody always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy. Not Frazier's but Frazier would never throw Ponder under the bus right after they drafted him. I don't care about Freeman's contract, it's the fact that Spielman liked him in the draft. All the local media guys have always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy, not Frazier's. Spielman is 0 for... When picking QB's. I don't understand why most Vikings fans love Spielman. What has he done outside of the 1st round that was really huge? A kicker?


I'm sure Rick isn't the only one like Freeman in the draft. Freeman has all of the tools to be a good player in the league, he just lot it mentally. That happens to a lot of first round picks. If those mental things were corrected, it would have been fine. Every player has concerns coming out.

We can't use first round examples? Alright...

Traded Percy, who didn't want to be in Minnesota and had one year left on his deal, and got way more than anyone thought they would.

Matt Cassel.
Greg Jennings.
Didn't give Leslie an extension.
Didn't give Erin Henderson a big contract.
Jury is still out on a lot of stuff in Minnesota, as he has had only two years as a GM.

I'm by no means a Spielman fanboy, and I think his leash should be pretty short if he can't find a QB soon. But I just can't stand it when people blame him for everything. The Triangle of Authority really put this franchise back, because it seemed no one agreed on the personnel they wanted.

I don't mean to come off hostile, it's just been a rough couple days (I mean years) in Valhalla.

PS: Go 9ers this weekend. Wink
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 8175
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Another Rick Spielman gem Laughing I am glad he gets to pick the Vikings next failure at QB, the guy really never seems to be right about that position Laughing


go back under your bridge plz thx
Great reply. Wanna tell me about all the All Pro's Spielman has drafted at QB? He said he was high on Freeman in the draft too, a guy with a poor work ethic, did he not do his homework? Spielman has been a total flop with QB's and Frazier was the one who took the bullet. Frazier was a sub par coach but Spielman gets a free pass.


Frazier was the one who brought in McNabb. Frazier was involved in the drafting of Christian Ponder, too, and when asked about drafting Ponder over Dalton, Leslie said "We targeted Christian, and it worked out fine. He was our guy."

When the Vikings drafted Ponder, I remember a few highly regarded posters saying how great of a pick it was. You know what team those fans supported?

Your Packers. I guess they didn't know what they were talking about, either.

But yeah, Spielman is totally to blame 100%. It was Frazier's decision to play him after signing him 10 days. It was Frazier's decision not to bench Ponder until the last quarter of the season. Spielman took a low risk, high reward signing a former first round pick who had shown many flashes of being able to be a good starter in the league. Rick doesn't have the greatest resume of drafting QB's, but your analysis is ignorant to say the least.
Everybody always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy. Not Frazier's but Frazier would never throw Ponder under the bus right after they drafted him. I don't care about Freeman's contract, it's the fact that Spielman liked him in the draft. All the local media guys have always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy, not Frazier's. Spielman is 0 for... When picking QB's. I don't understand why most Vikings fans love Spielman. What has he done outside of the 1st round that was really huge? A kicker?


I'm sure Rick isn't the only one like Freeman in the draft. Freeman has all of the tools to be a good player in the league, he just lot it mentally. That happens to a lot of first round picks. If those mental things were corrected, it would have been fine. Every player has concerns coming out.

We can't use first round examples? Alright...

Traded Percy, who didn't want to be in Minnesota and had one year left on his deal, and got way more than anyone thought they would.

Matt Cassel.
Greg Jennings.
Didn't give Leslie an extension.
Didn't give Erin Henderson a big contract.
Jury is still out on a lot of stuff in Minnesota, as he has had only two years as a GM.

I'm by no means a Spielman fanboy, and I think his leash should be pretty short if he can't find a QB soon. But I just can't stand it when people blame him for everything. The Triangle of Authority really put this franchise back, because it seemed no one agreed on the personnel they wanted.

I don't mean to come off hostile, it's just been a rough couple days (I mean years) in Valhalla.

PS: Go 9ers this weekend. Wink
So just because he didn't hand out big contracts to average or below average people he is good? How is Greg Jennings a good thing? In no way, shape or form was he worth the contract he got. He is worth about half, I would say it is a total negative, a lot of players are over paid and Jennings wasn't a complete flop, but I would never mark that as a positive.

I mean, who is the best mid round guy he has found? Jarius Wright? He is a decent player but not a gem that you really brag about. I say mid or non first round because I think most first rounders are at least solid picks, good GM's shine in rounds 2-7/UDFA in my opinion. That's where they find their value.

I'm personally happy as hell Spielman is sticking around and probably bought himself 3 or4 more years by ddumping Frazier and soon dumping Ponder. I don't see it with this guybbut as long as Viking ownership and fans are happy with having losing seasons 3/4 years with 1 wildcard birth, well as a Green Bay fan, I am happy with that too! Spielman has been on the staff and a main cog in building this roster. I am just confused why so many really like him? Is it because he trades up into the first round?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 2767
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since 2012:

Kalil (1), Smith (1), Rhodes (1), CP(1), Floyd(1), Wright (4), Ellison(4), Locke (5), Baca (6), Fusco (6), Walsh(6), Cole(7)


All of those players are starters and/or significant contributors to this team. This will also be Spielman's first time putting together his own staff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 14946
Location: Gibsonia, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
SodakViking wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Another Rick Spielman gem Laughing I am glad he gets to pick the Vikings next failure at QB, the guy really never seems to be right about that position Laughing


go back under your bridge plz thx
Great reply. Wanna tell me about all the All Pro's Spielman has drafted at QB? He said he was high on Freeman in the draft too, a guy with a poor work ethic, did he not do his homework? Spielman has been a total flop with QB's and Frazier was the one who took the bullet. Frazier was a sub par coach but Spielman gets a free pass.


Frazier was the one who brought in McNabb. Frazier was involved in the drafting of Christian Ponder, too, and when asked about drafting Ponder over Dalton, Leslie said "We targeted Christian, and it worked out fine. He was our guy."

When the Vikings drafted Ponder, I remember a few highly regarded posters saying how great of a pick it was. You know what team those fans supported?

Your Packers. I guess they didn't know what they were talking about, either.

But yeah, Spielman is totally to blame 100%. It was Frazier's decision to play him after signing him 10 days. It was Frazier's decision not to bench Ponder until the last quarter of the season. Spielman took a low risk, high reward signing a former first round pick who had shown many flashes of being able to be a good starter in the league. Rick doesn't have the greatest resume of drafting QB's, but your analysis is ignorant to say the least.
Everybody always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy. Not Frazier's but Frazier would never throw Ponder under the bus right after they drafted him. I don't care about Freeman's contract, it's the fact that Spielman liked him in the draft. All the local media guys have always said that Ponder was Spielman's guy, not Frazier's. Spielman is 0 for... When picking QB's. I don't understand why most Vikings fans love Spielman. What has he done outside of the 1st round that was really huge? A kicker?


I don't care for Spielman at all. I was actually hoping we'd get rid of him this year.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 2767
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Don't get how you can say that right now. This is the first time he's been able to put together his own staff. He's killed the last two drafts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kutless


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kparty69 wrote:
Wasn't T-Jack Childress' guy and not Spielmans?


Yes. Drafted in the early 2nd round in 2006, started intermittently for a while over the next few years. He was fun in Madden when you changed his 73 speed to his IRL speed (80 ish)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2552
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also a little confused why Vikings' fans aren't all pretty angry about Spielman. I really don't see the talent for picks that this guy has brought in. He was a major part before Childress and none of it worked til they got Favre.

To boot the guy is a weasel with 9 lives. Never takes accountability. He so reminds me of Tom Brattz. Hits on enough picks to give you hope about some talent, but the whole structure of the organization is really meant to distract on what a bad total GM he is.

But I'm a Packer fan so Spielman is good for business.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bristow


Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 588
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
I'm also a little confused why Vikings' fans aren't all pretty angry about Spielman. I really don't see the talent for picks that this guy has brought in. He was a major part before Childress and none of it worked til they got Favre.

To boot the guy is a weasel with 9 lives. Never takes accountability. He so reminds me of Tom Brattz. Hits on enough picks to give you hope about some talent, but the whole structure of the organization is really meant to distract on what a bad total GM he is.

But I'm a Packer fan so Spielman is good for business.


Because since we've gotten rid of the stupid "triangle of power" crap we had before, Spielman has done a pretty satisfactory job. Since he's been able to do his own drafts, we've gotten a lot of quality players even in lower rounds. Record aside, people were saying we had one of the best offseasons last year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bookable


Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 389
Location: Hampton, Arkansas
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't know much about Freeman, and I didn't see this coming. Oh, well.

As for the Bucs, firing Greg Schiano continues to make less and less sense. He brought a good, tough attitude to Tampa and I just think that he couldn't get everyone to buy into his style. Making Josh Freeman a scapegoat was a bad move, because maybe if they'd have done a little to boost his stock instead of kick him down more, they could have unloaded him in a trade. Instead they wasted a month making him into a scapegoat which distracted the team further since the locker room was still pro-Freeman. Even if Freeman deserved scapegoat status, it just wasn't a good business move...

Either way, I guess alls well that ends well for the Bucs, who have a decent draft pick, a fair amount of talent, and Lovie. This team will improve next year.
_________________
"If you argue correctly, you are never wrong." - Nick Naylor

I am a fan of the sport and of the league. I try not to favor any team too much. I am a self-declared bandwagon fan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2552
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bristow wrote:


Because since we've gotten rid of the stupid "triangle of power" crap we had before, Spielman has done a pretty satisfactory job. Since he's been able to do his own drafts, we've gotten a lot of quality players even in lower rounds. Record aside, people were saying we had one of the best offseasons last year.


Triangle of power ended 3 years ago. GM does more than just draft guys. He sets the organization, from HC to players.

What were the weakness 3 years ago? QB, DBs, LBers, safety.

Weaknesses today? Qb, Dbs, Lbers, Safety seems ok though. But Dl isn't looking too good. DE could be big, depends if Vikes stay 4-3 or go 3-4. But talent doesn't even dictate where to go?

3 years ago new HC, today? Need a new HC.

I mean, I can't even say what offense of defense this team should go to as the talent isn't dictating anything in particular.

3 years ago, mired in scandals and contoversy, today? More scandal and controversy.

I mean, where's the change? This ream doesn't seem any better than it was 3 years ago. And ask yourself, who do you think has a better chance to see improvement in record next year and rank them in order. Green Bay (8-7-1) Bears (8-Cool Detroit (7-9) Vikings (5-10).

I have the order the exact same. Some might put Detroit ahead of the Bears. But does anyone think the Vikes are going to improve on that record?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 2767
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you even bother to read anything? Or do you just like to spew your own opinions with disregard for others?

This is Spielman's 2nd year as GM. This will be the first time he'll be able to hire his own staff. He's on a short leash definitely, but I don't think there's anything that shows he's a bad GM so far. I'll hold off my judgement until the end of next season.

While we're at it... look at Ted Thompson. Your defense has been awful since 2011... why don't you fire him? Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2552
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nzd07 wrote:
Do you even bother to read anything? Or do you just like to spew your own opinions with disregard for others?

This is Spielman's 2nd year as GM. This will be the first time he'll be able to hire his own staff. He's on a short leash definitely, but I don't think there's anything that shows he's a bad GM so far. I'll hold off my judgement until the end of next season.

While we're at it... look at Ted Thompson. Your defense has been awful since 2011... why don't you fire him? Rolling Eyes


Hey, LIS, Spielman's good fer business. You love 'em great, I love 'em too. And we can both have opinions.

2nd 3rd 12th... IDC, whatever you want to believe. If you wanna believe he's great go ahead. Hold off Judgement, judge today... Someone was making draft picks. Some one was vice president of player personnel.

But why does next season matter if this will be the first time he'll put some coaches in there? Woulnd't it only be right to give him 5 years? Been there on that one...

I thnk I have posts about Ted Thompson in the GB forum if you wanna go visit. You can profile me and see posts. Why not fire TT? He helped to bring a SB in 2010.

Most of the problems in TT's drafting have been injury related. Those things happen, but he's also had a bunch of hits. The organization is running efficiently, few scandals, 3 division championships in the last 3 years, arrow pointing up. His staff seems to be pilfered every year by teams looking for GMs. Those are signs of success, not reasons for firing.

This idea that any team has to win the SB every year is foolishness. But is this organization competetive year after year for a SB? Does the future seem just as bright? Yeah.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 48344
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spielman really didnt have much control from 2007 until 2010. Brad Chidlress was known to be a bit of a control freak, he basically ran the draft. Spielman provided input but the direction was all Childress.

Frazier from a personality perspective, likely was more flexible then Childress. Spielman likely had more influence in the 2011 draft based on Frazier being a first time head coach. In 2011, Spielman struck gold with Brandon Fusco (top 5 OG this year) and Kyle Rudolph. He struck out with all of his other picks, including Ponder. I believe that Frazier pushed adding McNabb to be competitive and Spielman pushed Ponder to build for the future. They both turned out to be bad decisions.

In 2012, Spielman was promoted to GM, a position the Vikes havent had since the 1970s if i recall correctly.

In 2012, the Vikes draft was far more aggressive then it has ever been in the past; including a trade down in round one and a trade up to get back into round one. It was obvious that Spielman was in control of this draft as the sole decision maker. Spielman landed Matt Kalil and Harrison Smith. Josh Robinson has struggled this year. Robert Blanton and Rhett Ellison were nice picks as key reserves. Blair Walsh was a brilliant selection.

In 2013, MN had three first round picks. They made a brilliant trade to acquire the Seahawks 1st rd pick, and made an aggressive trade up to acquire all pro Cordarrelle Patterson. The rest of the draft is still questionable but Rhodes and Patterson alone look like great picks. Sharrif Floyd and Gerald Hodges have a way to go. Jeff Locke has looked solid, a cheaper and younger option then Chris Kluwe.

To judge Spielman, you really should only judge what happened since 2011. Based on his drafts since 2011, he has done a great job. Obviously, he still needs to find a QB. LB is also a concern and the DL has aged and regressed. This year, MN will look to address these needs.

As for Freeman, what did the Vikes have to lose acquiring Freeman? Absolutely nothing. $2 million is nothing to Zygi Wilf. The Vikes had the cap space, I dont get the complaints in attempting to kick the tires. Cassel proved to be the best QB and in the end, it was clear that Spielman was trying to move on from Ponder. That is the sign of a good GM, when you make a mistake, pull the plug early. MN gave Ponder about one and a half seasons to prove his worth (not including his rookie year where he started a handful of games).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tml_gogo


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 13815
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bookable wrote:
Didn't know much about Freeman, and I didn't see this coming. Oh, well.

As for the Bucs, firing Greg Schiano continues to make less and less sense. He brought a good, tough attitude to Tampa and I just think that he couldn't get everyone to buy into his style. Making Josh Freeman a scapegoat was a bad move, because maybe if they'd have done a little to boost his stock instead of kick him down more, they could have unloaded him in a trade. Instead they wasted a month making him into a scapegoat which distracted the team further since the locker room was still pro-Freeman. Even if Freeman deserved scapegoat status, it just wasn't a good business move...

Either way, I guess alls well that ends well for the Bucs, who have a decent draft pick, a fair amount of talent, and Lovie. This team will improve next year.


He still was not a good coach. He refused to do anything at halftime, evidenced by the fact that we hardly scored any points all season in the second half. Seriously, look it up, it's hilarious. There was also the stupid stunts that the d-linemen would run all game that never worked, playing Revis in zone all season (varying opinions on why this happened), uber conservative and predictable offense...the firing absolutely makes sense.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group