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2014 draft discussion thread 3
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Dude when you're 4-12 you had qb struggles as well. Their defense was bad but RG III continuously stared down his first read. He struggled adapting inside the pocket and it was on full display. It's not his game but he needs to adjust or the skins wasted all those picks on that spoiled sob.


Well, Dude, when your defense is in the bottom third, you're probably not going to win consistently. I think the old adage applies, "Defense wins championships". How did that top ranked offense do against a top notch defense in the Super Bowl?

Just maybe because Griffin had to spend all offseason rehabbing his knee as oppsed to throwing to his WRs may have been a major contributor to his poor season?

However, dude, really I don't feel like arguing about RGIII's performance last season. The basic point is that I agree with others, the dual threat QB is in vogue and I'm pretty sure Lovie/Licht want one. Guys like Kapernick who are still developing as a passer are still able to be major contributors on offense because of their running ability. Yes, they miss reads, but their ability to extend plays can kill a defense also.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warren sapp: " You win on offense. Defense gives you a chance". Very Happy

I don't care really a rats *** about RG III. I didn't think he had the pocket ability in college. I think he was a better prospect than Manziel though.

You want to put the injury on an RG III type player for his struggles cool. Get used to it if he plays that way bc the injury report is where he's going to be. Like it or not, or blame it on the injury, RG III struggled consistently going through reads sitting in the pocket.

Manziel has no pocket discipline and misses too many wrs. I've said it many times and film backs it up. And when I say misses he just doesn't see wrs. That makes you question "vision". There are several times he hesitates when the route is there in space and pulls it back and treys to dance around like Johnny does. His mechanics break down and he just slings the ball unorthodox and all arm at times. That's going to get him into trouble. While he does have an nfl arm it's not a cannon like Favre, cutler or staffords where they get away with those 50/50 balls they "arm it" in.

Like I said Manziel is raw and is ways to go. Ian beckles on wdae 620 said it best. Manziel will be a guy that entertains and excites the league for the first half of a season bc he's raw on film and rookies like that caliber will find successful utilizing their athelticism. However they can't play that way bc nfl defenses are much faster up front. Defenses figured out that read option in a year and qbs like Manziel will have to adapt as a pocket passer.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1848
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:

Manziel has no pocket discipline and misses too many wrs. I've said it many times and film backs it up. And when I say misses he just doesn't see wrs. That makes you question "vision". There are several times he hesitates when the route is there in space and pulls it back and treys to dance around like Johnny does. His mechanics break down and he just slings the ball unorthodox and all arm at times. That's going to get him into trouble. While he does have an nfl arm it's not a cannon like Favre, cutler or staffords where they get away with those 50/50 balls they "arm it" in.

Like I said Manziel is raw and is ways to go. Ian beckles on wdae 620 said it best. Manziel will be a guy that entertains and excites the league for the first half of a season bc he's raw on film and rookies like that caliber will find successful utilizing their athelticism. However they can't play that way bc nfl defenses are much faster up front. Defenses figured out that read option in a year and qbs like Manziel will have to adapt as a pocket passer.

Manziel is raw only because of starting experience. He only has two years under his belt and most college prospects need at least 3. So of course by the nature of experience he is going to need some development. I think you are criminally underrating Manziel's ability as a passer in the pocket though. I've seen him deliver strikes and take a hit. He is way more pocket savvy than Jimmy G.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:

Manziel has no pocket discipline and misses too many wrs. I've said it many times and film backs it up. And when I say misses he just doesn't see wrs. That makes you question "vision". There are several times he hesitates when the route is there in space and pulls it back and treys to dance around like Johnny does. His mechanics break down and he just slings the ball unorthodox and all arm at times. That's going to get him into trouble. While he does have an nfl arm it's not a cannon like Favre, cutler or staffords where they get away with those 50/50 balls they "arm it" in.

Like I said Manziel is raw and is ways to go. Ian beckles on wdae 620 said it best. Manziel will be a guy that entertains and excites the league for the first half of a season bc he's raw on film and rookies like that caliber will find successful utilizing their athelticism. However they can't play that way bc nfl defenses are much faster up front. Defenses figured out that read option in a year and qbs like Manziel will have to adapt as a pocket passer.

Manziel is raw only because of starting experience. He only has two years under his belt and most college prospects need at least 3. So of course by the nature of experience he is going to need some development. I think you are criminally underrating Manziel's ability as a passer in the pocket though. I've seen him deliver strikes and take a hit. He is way more pocket savvy than Jimmy G.

Agreed on all points.
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've stopped bothering to discuss anything on Manziel, I learn about something new he apparently sucks at every day.
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
I've stopped bothering to discuss anything on Manziel, I learn about something new he apparently sucks at every day.

I kicked his arse in poker last summer. Dude sucks at Texas Hold 'Em.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9360/jimmy-garoppolo

Quote:
Speaking to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, a scout compared Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo to Matt Hasselbeck.

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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
I've stopped bothering to discuss anything on Manziel, I learn about something new he apparently sucks at every day.

I kicked his arse in poker last summer. Dude sucks at Texas Hold 'Em.


Major character flaw right there, day 3 pick.
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9360/jimmy-garoppolo

Quote:
Speaking to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, a scout compared Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo to Matt Hasselbeck.


Please don't do this, I've actually been able to open the draft thread the last couple of days.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
I've stopped bothering to discuss anything on Manziel, I learn about something new he apparently sucks at every day.

I kicked his arse in poker last summer. Dude sucks at Texas Hold 'Em.


Major character flaw right there, day 3 pick.

No poker face. That obviously translates to tipping off the defense every play.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9360/jimmy-garoppolo

Quote:
Speaking to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, a scout compared Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo to Matt Hasselbeck.


Please don't do this, I've actually been able to open the draft thread the last couple of days.


Anxious

He's not my guy trust me. Just updating QB news.

If we can't get one of the top guys I want no part of the next group of guys. Rather ride with McCown and Glennon and work something out for next draft.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/TonyPauline/status/456096970428653568

Quote:
Kevin Pamphile/T/Purdue, major sleeper, visiting NE Patriots, Miami, Arizona, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, NY Giants: http://www.draftinsider.net/reports/2014/T/Kevin-Pamphile

We're having a lot of visits with OTs, at least a lot more than I expected. For the first time in a while I think that we'll pick an OLineman pretty early, and my guess is that we end up drafting at least two of them.
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ChaoticBuc3125


Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: From Boston, MA ... Hate Pats and rest of NFCS GO Bucs!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
https://twitter.com/TonyPauline/status/456096970428653568

Quote:
Kevin Pamphile/T/Purdue, major sleeper, visiting NE Patriots, Miami, Arizona, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, NY Giants: http://www.draftinsider.net/reports/2014/T/Kevin-Pamphile

We're having a lot of visits with OTs, at least a lot more than I expected. For the first time in a while I think that we'll pick an OLineman pretty early, and my guess is that we end up drafting at least two of them.


Hopefully a flexible G/T and after 2nd, my fingers are crossed QB and WR are addressed early maybe Brandon Thomas could be a great stash pick.. The 6 picks only go so far..
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9360/jimmy-garoppolo

Quote:
Speaking to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, a scout compared Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo to Matt Hasselbeck.


Please don't do this, I've actually been able to open the draft thread the last couple of days.


Anxious

He's not my guy trust me. Just updating QB news.

If we can't get one of the top guys I want no part of the next group of guys. Rather ride with McCown and Glennon and work something out for next draft.


One scout compared Teddy bridgewater to a fictional qb Willie Beamon from any given Sunday.

Haha come to think of it I think scouts love to just say anything and everything.

What's wrong with hassle back?
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