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Marcus21


Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 1100
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Nice Mock....
Quarels around in the 5th would be a steal (I'm from SC, and the way he played this year, I think he'll be off the board by the end of round 3 at the absolute latest...

The trade....I dont see...... with two first round picks and the ability to acquire one of the top 4, which all are graded as much higher prospects then Cousins was......why we would trade for Cousins? Neutral
Because he's as good as any of the qbs on your roster, he's as good as any of the qbs you could take in round 1 or 2 and he'll only cost you a 3rd.


Just for clarification, respectful clarification...not attempting to start any sort of argument....are you saying that Kirk Cousins is as good as the top 4 draft elgible QB's right now, Because he's an NFL vet? Or are you saying in in the grand scheme of things he has as much upside/potential/skills set (physical and mental) as Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johhny Football and Derrick Carr?


I just want to add my opinion on this topic. I would take Cousins right now over Bortles, Bridgewater, and Carr. I think they are all 4th round picks in the 2012 draft. This is a horrible draft for QBs. Manzel is the wild card, but he has lots of bust potential!!
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4507
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Nice Mock....
Quarels around in the 5th would be a steal (I'm from SC, and the way he played this year, I think he'll be off the board by the end of round 3 at the absolute latest...

The trade....I dont see...... with two first round picks and the ability to acquire one of the top 4, which all are graded as much higher prospects then Cousins was......why we would trade for Cousins? Neutral
Because he's as good as any of the qbs on your roster, he's as good as any of the qbs you could take in round 1 or 2 and he'll only cost you a 3rd.


Just for clarification, respectful clarification...not attempting to start any sort of argument....are you saying that Kirk Cousins is as good as the top 4 draft elgible QB's right now, Because he's an NFL vet? Or are you saying in in the grand scheme of things he has as much upside/potential/skills set (physical and mental) as Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johhny Football and Derrick Carr?


I just want to add my opinion on this topic. I would take Cousins right now over Bortles, Bridgewater, and Carr. I think they are all 4th round picks in the 2012 draft. This is a horrible draft for QBs. Manzel is the wild card, but he has lots of bust potential!!


I respect your opinion......I completely disagree with your opinion.

What causes you to think that this is the a horrible draft for QB's?...(the only expert I've seen have this opinion is Phil Simms)
I would counter with last season (Geno Smith and EJ Manual) as well as 2011 (Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder) and 2010 (Bradford, Tebow, Claussen and McCoy) were MUCH weaker draft classes for QB's IMO....I am assuming you disagree?
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Marcus21


Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 1100
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Nice Mock....
Quarels around in the 5th would be a steal (I'm from SC, and the way he played this year, I think he'll be off the board by the end of round 3 at the absolute latest...

The trade....I dont see...... with two first round picks and the ability to acquire one of the top 4, which all are graded as much higher prospects then Cousins was......why we would trade for Cousins? Neutral
Because he's as good as any of the qbs on your roster, he's as good as any of the qbs you could take in round 1 or 2 and he'll only cost you a 3rd.


Just for clarification, respectful clarification...not attempting to start any sort of argument....are you saying that Kirk Cousins is as good as the top 4 draft elgible QB's right now, Because he's an NFL vet? Or are you saying in in the grand scheme of things he has as much upside/potential/skills set (physical and mental) as Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johhny Football and Derrick Carr?


I just want to add my opinion on this topic. I would take Cousins right now over Bortles, Bridgewater, and Carr. I think they are all 4th round picks in the 2012 draft. This is a horrible draft for QBs. Manzel is the wild card, but he has lots of bust potential!!


I respect your opinion......I completely disagree with your opinion.

What causes you to think that this is the a horrible draft for QB's?...(the only expert I've seen have this opinion is Phil Simms)
I would counter with last season (Geno Smith and EJ Manual) as well as 2011 (Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder) and 2010 (Bradford, Tebow, Claussen and McCoy) were MUCH weaker draft classes for QB's IMO....I am assuming you disagree?


I sure do disagree.... I think this is the Blane Gabbert syndrome. Teams are so deeperate for QBs they build thm up in their minds. They invent reasons why they should take them in the 1st round. The only QB I would take in the 1st round this year is Manzel, and he is a huge gamble.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62134
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Nice Mock....
Quarels around in the 5th would be a steal (I'm from SC, and the way he played this year, I think he'll be off the board by the end of round 3 at the absolute latest...

The trade....I dont see...... with two first round picks and the ability to acquire one of the top 4, which all are graded as much higher prospects then Cousins was......why we would trade for Cousins? Neutral
Because he's as good as any of the qbs on your roster, he's as good as any of the qbs you could take in round 1 or 2 and he'll only cost you a 3rd.


Just for clarification, respectful clarification...not attempting to start any sort of argument....are you saying that Kirk Cousins is as good as the top 4 draft elgible QB's right now, Because he's an NFL vet? Or are you saying in in the grand scheme of things he has as much upside/potential/skills set (physical and mental) as Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johhny Football and Derrick Carr?
Both. I think he's the better Qb currently. He's specifically perfect for Kyle Shanahan's scheme and I think he has as much upside as any of the qbs in this draft and you can have him for probably a 3rd round pick, rather than using pick 4, pick 26 or pick 35
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1576
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Shocked


I literally had to do a triple take when I saw this...I'm not even going to say anything regarding this Turtle...Except welcome aboard the Archer train Cool
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4507
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the responses gentleman,
I feel we must humbly agree to disagree on the Kirk Cousins assessment.

I am not sure how a QB who is 1-3 in games he has started (that victory is vs Cleveland), has a completion percentage 56%.... to go along with 8 TD's vs 12 turnovers (10 Int's +loosing 2 of 4 fumbles) has as much upside and skill set as Johhny Football, Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgwater and Derrick Carr.....I just don't see the same level of potential there?....
I've seen him play ever at Mich St. ever since Hoyer graduated, and I've seen him play 3 full games....

I think (just my opinion) if Kirk Cousins was coming out in this draft class he would be rated behind the top 4 + Garrapalo..... I think he would be competing with McCarron (and 3 national championships) and Arron Murry (SEC all time leading passer) for the 6 spot....I think he was rated as the 6th or 7th best rated QB the year he came out....

Good luck on the season....
Humbly Submitted DaWg_Lb.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62134
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Shocked


I literally had to do a triple take when I saw this...I'm not even going to say anything regarding this Turtle...Except welcome aboard the Archer train Cool
As I said many a time, I've always liked Archer - he went to my fathers, my uncles, Jack Lambert's, James Harrison's, Joshua Cribb's and Julian Eddleman's Alma Matter, but before we signed DJax, I felt we needed a WR who could be an every down player and that's not Archer.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62134
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
Thank you for the responses gentleman,
I feel we must humbly agree to disagree on the Kirk Cousins assessment.

I am not sure how a QB who is 1-3 in games he has started (that victory is vs Cleveland), has a completion percentage 56%.... to go along with 8 TD's vs 12 turnovers (10 Int's +loosing 2 of 4 fumbles) has as much upside and skill set as Johhny Football, Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgwater and Derrick Carr.....I just don't see the same level of potential there?....
I've seen him play ever at Mich St. ever since Hoyer graduated, and I've seen him play 3 full games....

I think (just my opinion) if Kirk Cousins was coming out in this draft class he would be rated behind the top 4 + Garrapalo..... I think he would be competing with McCarron (and 3 national championships) and Arron Murry (SEC all time leading passer) for the 6 spot....I think he was rated as the 6th or 7th best rated QB the year he came out....

Good luck on the season....
Humbly Submitted DaWg_Lb.
I'd think Kirk and Carr would be rated comparably. Also, to reiterate, Couisns can be had with a later draft pick right now for a comparable performance and you're continuing to ignore the Kyle Shanahan Factor! Kirk fits perfectly into the Shanahan offense and of you saw Kirk play on the 4 games he's played in the NFL and the 4th quarter and overtime game where he lead the Redskins to a victory over the Ravens, then you'd feel how we do.

Stats don't tell the whole story and with Kirk they really don't tell you any of the story!

Especially because in 2012 vs the Ravens he was the 8th inning Reliever and should be given that victory on his resume.

The last 3 losses of the 2013 NFL season should t be held against Cousins. "IF" you saw him play, you certainly wouldn't be saying the "he" lost us those games, you'd realize the special teams and defense did and that the rest of the team had checked out and wasn't playing for Mike Shanahan at all.
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1576
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Shocked


I literally had to do a triple take when I saw this...I'm not even going to say anything regarding this Turtle...Except welcome aboard the Archer train Cool
As I said many a time, I've always liked Archer - he went to my fathers, my uncles, Jack Lambert's, James Harrison's, Joshua Cribb's and Julian Eddleman's Alma Matter, but before we signed DJax, I felt we needed a WR who could be an every down player and that's not Archer.


I don't think anyone was ever claiming he would be a number 1 or 2 WR for us, but he absolutely could play some slot WR/situational RB/Return man in a Dexter McCluster role, which was my argument for him pretty much since he's been brought up in the forum. I still wanted us to grab a Jordan Matthews or someone along those lines prior to the Desean Jackson signing to fill the number 2 WR void we had.

I'm glad you are at least viewing him as a mid round talent now instead of a late round talent. I really think he has some very underrated skills that could translate well in the NFL.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62134
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Shocked


I literally had to do a triple take when I saw this...I'm not even going to say anything regarding this Turtle...Except welcome aboard the Archer train Cool
As I said many a time, I've always liked Archer - he went to my fathers, my uncles, Jack Lambert's, James Harrison's, Joshua Cribb's and Julian Eddleman's Alma Matter, but before we signed DJax, I felt we needed a WR who could be an every down player and that's not Archer.


I don't think anyone was ever claiming he would be a number 1 or 2 WR for us, but he absolutely could play some slot WR/situational RB/Return man in a Dexter McCluster role, which was my argument for him pretty much since he's been brought up in the forum. I still wanted us to grab a Jordan Matthews or someone along those lines prior to the Desean Jackson signing to fill the number 2 WR void we had.

I'm glad you are at least viewing him as a mid round talent now instead of a late round talent. I really think he has some very underrated skills that could translate well in the NFL.
Well, I'm not sure McCluster is even a true slot wr. Both are someone I wouldn't like to see as the teams #3, but #4 or 5, and return man - yeah, I can live with that!
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1576
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Shocked


I literally had to do a triple take when I saw this...I'm not even going to say anything regarding this Turtle...Except welcome aboard the Archer train Cool
As I said many a time, I've always liked Archer - he went to my fathers, my uncles, Jack Lambert's, James Harrison's, Joshua Cribb's and Julian Eddleman's Alma Matter, but before we signed DJax, I felt we needed a WR who could be an every down player and that's not Archer.


I don't think anyone was ever claiming he would be a number 1 or 2 WR for us, but he absolutely could play some slot WR/situational RB/Return man in a Dexter McCluster role, which was my argument for him pretty much since he's been brought up in the forum. I still wanted us to grab a Jordan Matthews or someone along those lines prior to the Desean Jackson signing to fill the number 2 WR void we had.

I'm glad you are at least viewing him as a mid round talent now instead of a late round talent. I really think he has some very underrated skills that could translate well in the NFL.
Well, I'm not sure McCluster is even a true slot wr. Both are someone I wouldn't like to see as the teams #3, but #4 or 5, and return man - yeah, I can live with that!


I do think McCluster this past year was a true slot WR. In years past a case could be made that he wasn't a true slot WR, but this past season he looked the part to me. McCluster had a few things working against him in that offense. QB play...Cassell was terrible, and Alex Smith having no downfield passing ability kinda hindered the entire WR core in the routes they could run. On top of that Jamaal Charles is a beast. Not a lot of RB's can line up at WR and get 100+ targets in a season. Charles definitely took away some of McClusters slot time, but despite this McCluster had a very respectable season with over 50 catches and 500+ yards. He continues to improve each season, and he has been getting glowing reports so far working out with the Titans, I expect him to have a nice season this year. From what I have seen they plan to use him at both RB and WR which wasn't really possible to do consistently with the Chiefs with Jamaal Charles on the roster.

Initially I don't think Archer should be a full time slot guy which is fine we got Roberts for that role, but I do think Archer could be groomed into that role in a few seasons. This season he would be an absolute dynamite number 4 guy that could get some carries, and use his special kick return ability to possibly get us a few touchdowns on special teams. I compare Archer to McCluster, but I do think Archer is more talented as he possesses a very similar skill set, but is just on another level from an explosive/speed standpoint.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62134
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
34: Morgan Moses, RT, Georgia
66: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas
71: Jaylen Watkins, CB, Florida (trade Cousins to Browns)
102: Dri Archer, Kent St
142: Kelcy Quarels, DE, South Carolina
178: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan ST
217: Ben Gardner, DE or OLB, Stanford


Shocked


I literally had to do a triple take when I saw this...I'm not even going to say anything regarding this Turtle...Except welcome aboard the Archer train Cool
As I said many a time, I've always liked Archer - he went to my fathers, my uncles, Jack Lambert's, James Harrison's, Joshua Cribb's and Julian Eddleman's Alma Matter, but before we signed DJax, I felt we needed a WR who could be an every down player and that's not Archer.


I don't think anyone was ever claiming he would be a number 1 or 2 WR for us, but he absolutely could play some slot WR/situational RB/Return man in a Dexter McCluster role, which was my argument for him pretty much since he's been brought up in the forum. I still wanted us to grab a Jordan Matthews or someone along those lines prior to the Desean Jackson signing to fill the number 2 WR void we had.

I'm glad you are at least viewing him as a mid round talent now instead of a late round talent. I really think he has some very underrated skills that could translate well in the NFL.
Well, I'm not sure McCluster is even a true slot wr. Both are someone I wouldn't like to see as the teams #3, but #4 or 5, and return man - yeah, I can live with that!


I do think McCluster this past year was a true slot WR. In years past a case could be made that he wasn't a true slot WR, but this past season he looked the part to me. McCluster had a few things working against him in that offense. QB play...Cassell was terrible, and Alex Smith having no downfield passing ability kinda hindered the entire WR core in the routes they could run. On top of that Jamaal Charles is a beast. Not a lot of RB's can line up at WR and get 100+ targets in a season. Charles definitely took away some of McClusters slot time, but despite this McCluster had a very respectable season with over 50 catches and 500+ yards. He continues to improve each season, and he has been getting glowing reports so far working out with the Titans, I expect him to have a nice season this year. From what I have seen they plan to use him at both RB and WR which wasn't really possible to do consistently with the Chiefs with Jamaal Charles on the roster.

Initially I don't think Archer should be a full time slot guy which is fine we got Roberts for that role, but I do think Archer could be groomed into that role in a few seasons. This season he would be an absolute dynamite number 4 guy that could get some carries, and use his special kick return ability to possibly get us a few touchdowns on special teams. I compare Archer to McCluster, but I do think Archer is more talented as he possesses a very similar skill set, but is just on another level from an explosive/speed standpoint.
I do agree with that. Archer can develop into a slot WR, but not initially
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62134
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
It's not wrong, but personally, I loathe link aggregators like Bleacher Report. Especially when they just put their banner at the top of the page of someone else's work. Yes, they are giving credit, but I feel its duplicitous to use them when they just pass you through to somewhere else.

If you find original content on BR, then post it. Otherwise, I'd say just link through to the original site. In this case:

http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/3/21/5531200/redskins-mock-draft-roundup-5-0

As for the actual possibilities, I would focus mainly on Morgan Moses (no, that's not because I'm a Hoo ... we need a quality right tackle), Ryan Shazier, or C.J. Moseley if he actually fell to us. I can understand the fascination with Kelvin Benjamin, but my concern is his lack of focus (too many drops, balls coming into his chest) and his route running.

While I suspect what I'm about to say won't be that popular, I'd avoid anyone in the secondary that they mention with the exception of Clinton-Dix (I doubt he'll be available). I'm not saying our secondary is good, or even mediocre. I just feel we have to grab someone that will be a long term solution for the future of the team. Yes, we might find the next great corner in Kyle Fuller or Jason Verrett, but I'm not sure that's going to help for a decade (note how many top corners change teams, as opposed to top middle linebackers or offensive linemen).


I agree with most of what you said, but drafting a DB at 34 wouldn't be a bad idea. Our team doesn't have many weaknesses and we can go in about any direction but QB & RB in round 2 and I won't be upset.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4507
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
Thank you for the responses gentleman,
I feel we must humbly agree to disagree on the Kirk Cousins assessment.

I am not sure how a QB who is 1-3 in games he has started (that victory is vs Cleveland), has a completion percentage 56%.... to go along with 8 TD's vs 12 turnovers (10 Int's +loosing 2 of 4 fumbles) has as much upside and skill set as Johhny Football, Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgwater and Derrick Carr.....I just don't see the same level of potential there?....
I've seen him play ever at Mich St. ever since Hoyer graduated, and I've seen him play 3 full games....

I think (just my opinion) if Kirk Cousins was coming out in this draft class he would be rated behind the top 4 + Garrapalo..... I think he would be competing with McCarron (and 3 national championships) and Arron Murry (SEC all time leading passer) for the 6 spot....I think he was rated as the 6th or 7th best rated QB the year he came out....

Good luck on the season....
Humbly Submitted DaWg_Lb.
I'd think Kirk and Carr would be rated comparably. Also, to reiterate, Couisns can be had with a later draft pick right now for a comparable performance and you're continuing to ignore the Kyle Shanahan Factor! Kirk fits perfectly into the Shanahan offense and of you saw Kirk play on the 4 games he's played in the NFL and the 4th quarter and overtime game where he lead the Redskins to a victory over the Ravens, then you'd feel how we do.

Stats don't tell the whole story and with Kirk they really don't tell you any of the story!

Especially because in 2012 vs the Ravens he was the 8th inning Reliever and should be given that victory on his resume.

The last 3 losses of the 2013 NFL season should t be held against Cousins. "IF" you saw him play, you certainly wouldn't be saying the "he" lost us those games, you'd realize the special teams and defense did and that the rest of the team had checked out and wasn't playing for Mike Shanahan at all.


We must agree to disagree on the Carr and Cousins....the current draft is rated overall as much stronger draft class...and Carr is rated as a 1rst round QB. In a weaker draft class '12 Cousins was still rated as a 3rd round player "Game manager type, who will need a lot of help around him to succeed" http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/kirk-cousins?id=2532820
Which is why I had the AJ McCarron vs Kirk Cousins comparison...
Carr is a legit first round QB http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/derek-carr?id=2543499

You keep saying the Kyle Shannahan Factor....I believe that one of his best strengths is implementing the zone running scheme and then basing the rest of the offense based on the talent he has to work with...(See RGIII's success his rookie year with the Pistol....then changing the offense to work with Kirk Cousins the week vs Cleveland) So I am not ignoring the Kyle Shannahan factor.....KShanny gets the best out of what he has to work with.....IMO......as well as being an excellent play caller...

I never said stats told the whole story...I saw Cousins play since he was given the shot to start after Brian Hoyer graduated Wink
I saw him play 4 full NFL games....the win at Cle and the 3 losses and I am not saying he lost the games, but he sure didnt win them, what I saw was the same things I saw a Mich state.....not a bad QB, but nothing special....his factual stats and win loss record back up my opinion of what I saw on the field.....safe throw's, solid game management, poor decision\lack of arm strength on a few of those 10 int's....
I am not saying Kirk Cousins is not an NFL QB...but worth trading a 3rd round pick for.....I dont agree with...in a draft like this you could an AJ McCarron in round 3 (3 national titles and almost a 4th) who is a better winner then KC...or Arron Murry who's college stats blow KC's out of the water in the tougher conference.....or a Tom Savage or Zach Mattenburger who's arm talents\strength and prototypical size make them superior prospects (IMO) to KC.

Just my opinion......not trying to upset anybody......not trying to say KC is a bad player at all.......or not an NFL QB, just stating my opinion based off what I have seen, then provide the facts and stats to back up why I feel my eyes are not lying to me when I look at K.C. play College and NFL football. Especially when there is a projection of my Favorite team I live and die with trading a valuable team building resource for K.C.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
Thank you for the responses gentleman,
I feel we must humbly agree to disagree on the Kirk Cousins assessment.

I am not sure how a QB who is 1-3 in games he has started (that victory is vs Cleveland), has a completion percentage 56%.... to go along with 8 TD's vs 12 turnovers (10 Int's +loosing 2 of 4 fumbles) has as much upside and skill set as Johhny Football, Blake Brotles, Teddy Bridgwater and Derrick Carr.....I just don't see the same level of potential there?....
I've seen him play ever at Mich St. ever since Hoyer graduated, and I've seen him play 3 full games....

I think (just my opinion) if Kirk Cousins was coming out in this draft class he would be rated behind the top 4 + Garrapalo..... I think he would be competing with McCarron (and 3 national championships) and Arron Murry (SEC all time leading passer) for the 6 spot....I think he was rated as the 6th or 7th best rated QB the year he came out....

Good luck on the season....
Humbly Submitted DaWg_Lb.
I'd think Kirk and Carr would be rated comparably. Also, to reiterate, Couisns can be had with a later draft pick right now for a comparable performance and you're continuing to ignore the Kyle Shanahan Factor! Kirk fits perfectly into the Shanahan offense and of you saw Kirk play on the 4 games he's played in the NFL and the 4th quarter and overtime game where he lead the Redskins to a victory over the Ravens, then you'd feel how we do.

Stats don't tell the whole story and with Kirk they really don't tell you any of the story!

Especially because in 2012 vs the Ravens he was the 8th inning Reliever and should be given that victory on his resume.

The last 3 losses of the 2013 NFL season should t be held against Cousins. "IF" you saw him play, you certainly wouldn't be saying the "he" lost us those games, you'd realize the special teams and defense did and that the rest of the team had checked out and wasn't playing for Mike Shanahan at all.


We must agree to disagree on the Carr and Cousins....the current draft is rated overall as much stronger draft class...and Carr is rated as a 1rst round QB. In a weaker draft class '12 Cousins was still rated as a 3rd round player "Game manager type, who will need a lot of help around him to succeed" http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/kirk-cousins?id=2532820
Which is why I had the AJ McCarron vs Kirk Cousins comparison...
Carr is a legit first round QB http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/derek-carr?id=2543499

You keep saying the Kyle Shannahan Factor....I believe that one of his best strengths is implementing the zone running scheme and then basing the rest of the offense based on the talent he has to work with...(See RGIII's success his rookie year with the Pistol....then changing the offense to work with Kirk Cousins the week vs Cleveland) So I am not ignoring the Kyle Shannahan factor.....KShanny gets the best out of what he has to work with.....IMO......as well as being an excellent play caller...

I never said stats told the whole story...I saw Cousins play since he was given the shot to start after Brian Hoyer graduated Wink

I saw him play 4 full NFL games....the win at Cle and the 3 losses and I am not saying he lost the games, but he sure didnt win them, what I saw was the same things I saw a Mich state.....not a bad QB, but nothing special....his factual stats and win loss record back up my opinion of what I saw on the field.....safe throw's, solid game management, poor decision\lack of arm strength on a few of those 10 int's...

I am not saying Kirk Cousins is not an NFL QB...but worth trading a 3rd round pick for.....I dont agree with...in a draft like this you could an AJ McCarron in round 3 (3 national titles and almost a 4th) who is a better winner then KC...or Arron Murry who's college stats blow KC's out of the water in the tougher conference.....or a Tom Savage or Zach Mattenburger who's arm talents\strength and prototypical size make them superior prospects (IMO) to KC.

Just my opinion......not trying to upset anybody......not trying to say KC is a bad player at all.......or not an NFL QB, just stating my opinion based off what I have seen, then provide the facts and stats to back up why I feel my eyes are not lying to me when I look at K.C. play College and NFL football. Especially when there is a projection of my Favorite team I live and die with trading a valuable team building resource for K.C.
so you're telling me the 2014 Qb draft class is better than the 2012 draft class when prospects like Wilson went in round 3? And Cousins & Landry Jones went in round 4?

Luck, RG3, Tanehill...

Sorry bro, that's the most untrue statement ever.
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