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Lane Johnson Suspended Four Games due to PED Violation
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Dubyajay


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1713
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

organ donor wrote:
Withmy89vision wrote:
organ donor wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Meh. I always found steroid suspensions stupid but whatever. Hopefully Lane hides it better next time.


LOL


I agree with him. You are crazy if you don't think the vast majority of players take PEDs


Cool, it's nice to know I'm not crazy then, I guess. [removed]

Saying steroid use is okay and that they should hide it better I don't agree with. There's also a good portion of players who don't cheat. Just because a lot of players do it, doesn't make it right and those guys deserve to get caught.

-Absolutely no reason to tie marijuana use into this discussion, especially since it's against forum rules.


We should be suspending people who have Lasik done or use corrective eye surgery too for cheating.
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Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 14095
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubyajay wrote:
organ donor wrote:
Withmy89vision wrote:
organ donor wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Meh. I always found steroid suspensions stupid but whatever. Hopefully Lane hides it better next time.


LOL


I agree with him. You are crazy if you don't think the vast majority of players take PEDs


Cool, it's nice to know I'm not crazy then, I guess. [removed]

Saying steroid use is okay and that they should hide it better I don't agree with. There's also a good portion of players who don't cheat. Just because a lot of players do it, doesn't make it right and those guys deserve to get caught.

-Absolutely no reason to tie marijuana use into this discussion, especially since it's against forum rules.


We should be suspending people who have Lasik done or use corrective eye surgery too for cheating.
Suggesting that stuff is the same as steroid use is pretty ignorant point of view. One thing is life improvement and the other is soley used to get a competitive advantage.
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Dubyajay


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1713
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
Dubyajay wrote:
organ donor wrote:
Withmy89vision wrote:
organ donor wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Meh. I always found steroid suspensions stupid but whatever. Hopefully Lane hides it better next time.


LOL


I agree with him. You are crazy if you don't think the vast majority of players take PEDs


Cool, it's nice to know I'm not crazy then, I guess. [removed]

Saying steroid use is okay and that they should hide it better I don't agree with. There's also a good portion of players who don't cheat. Just because a lot of players do it, doesn't make it right and those guys deserve to get caught.

-Absolutely no reason to tie marijuana use into this discussion, especially since it's against forum rules.


We should be suspending people who have Lasik done or use corrective eye surgery too for cheating.
Suggesting that stuff is the same as steroid use is pretty ignorant point of view. One thing is life improvement and the other is soley used to get a competitive advantage.


People don't get a competitive advantage from seeing?
Leave your ignorance at the door and try again.

The only reason this is an issue for you or some others is because you believe the propoganda you have been fed by people wanting to get re-elected.
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Withmy89vision


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 3597
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
Dubyajay wrote:
organ donor wrote:
Withmy89vision wrote:
organ donor wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Meh. I always found steroid suspensions stupid but whatever. Hopefully Lane hides it better next time.


LOL


I agree with him. You are crazy if you don't think the vast majority of players take PEDs


Cool, it's nice to know I'm not crazy then, I guess. [removed]

Saying steroid use is okay and that they should hide it better I don't agree with. There's also a good portion of players who don't cheat. Just because a lot of players do it, doesn't make it right and those guys deserve to get caught.

-Absolutely no reason to tie marijuana use into this discussion, especially since it's against forum rules.


We should be suspending people who have Lasik done or use corrective eye surgery too for cheating.
Suggesting that stuff is the same as steroid use is pretty ignorant point of view. One thing is life improvement and the other is soley used to get a competitive advantage.


So healing faster isn't a life improvement? What about becoming a better player and making more money?
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RandyMossIsBoss


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One large difference between lasik and steroid use is that one has well documented, serious side effects, while the other does not. One of the biggest reasons, if not thee biggest reason, that steroids are illegal in sports is because of the dangers. If you made it legal, then people would be pressured to take steroids from a younger and younger age if they want to keep up with the competition and it would be ingrained in sports culture, and you don't want to ingrain something with so many ill health effects into a culture that already includes a ton of behavior that is risky to one's health. Hence why something like protein powder or caffeine, both of which could you give a competitive advantage, although the former is done indirectly, are not banned in sports, because their negative effects are minuscule compared to something like steroids. Now steroids are not as dangerous as the media paints them to be, and if you're using quality steroids and doing it responsibly you greatly minimize the side effects, which I suspect is the case with most pro athletes. That being said, it's not easy to "responsibly" take steroids if you're not a professional athlete or actor with millions of dollar and a high status that grants you good connections, and HS sports would certainly feel the trickle down effect of pro sports allowing heavy PEDs like steroids, which is simply unsafe, which is exactly why pro sports would never legalize any form of a PED that has serious side effects or odds of abuse. And please do not argue "well football players already risk their lives by playing the sport itself, so PEDs should be legalized for them," because that is not sound logic, at all. All you'd be doing is making the odds of serious health effects from being part of a football team even greater than they already are, which doesn't make much sense.
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Withmy89vision


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
One large difference between lasik and steroid use is that one has well documented, serious side effects, while the other does not. One of the biggest reasons, if not thee biggest reason, that steroids are illegal in sports is because of the dangers. If you made it legal, then people would be pressured to take steroids from a younger and younger age if they want to keep up with the competition and it would be ingrained in sports culture, and you don't want to ingrain something with so many ill health effects into a culture that already includes a ton of behavior that is risky to one's health. Hence why something like protein powder or caffeine, both of which could you give a competitive advantage, although the former is done indirectly, are not banned in sports, because their negative effects are minuscule compared to something like steroids. Now steroids are not as dangerous as the media paints them to be, and if you're using quality steroids and doing it responsibly you greatly minimize the side effects, which I suspect is the case with most pro athletes. That being said, it's not easy to "responsibly" take steroids if you're not a professional athlete or actor with millions of dollar and a high status that grants you good connections, and HS sports would certainly feel the trickle down effect of pro sports allowing heavy PEDs like steroids, which is simply unsafe, which is exactly why pro sports would never legalize any form of a PED that has serious side effects or odds of abuse. And please do not argue "well football players already risk their lives by playing the sport itself, so PEDs should be legalized for them," because that is not sound logic, at all. All you'd be doing is making the odds of serious health effects from being part of a football team even greater than they already are, which doesn't make much sense.


You need to paragraph that. It's hard to go point-by-point when it's a wall of text.

Anyways, to say LASIK has no side effects is absurd. My mom had it, had severe pain for a week, then it never fully improved her eyes but it made it so contacts and glasses didn't help her, and now she is losing her vision again.

Some people it completely blinds. It is a SURGERY, it is indeed dangerous and definitely has side effects.


Meanwhile, a lot of PEDs are just naturally occurring hormones that your body makes on its own.

You wouldn't have to encourage PED use amongst younger kids because we know that a lot of things are more harmful to developing people than fully grown adults. Hence why there is an age limit for alcohol and weed where it is legal. (Some age limits are more for limiting it to more matured individuals, like gambling)

There is no reason full-grown adults shouldn't be allowed to take prescribed medications so he can better perform in a dangerous sport that is also his livelihood.

That's like the people who think it makes sense 18 year olds can go fight in a war but can't come home and drink.
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Dubyajay


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1713
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Withmy89vision wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
One large difference between lasik and steroid use is that one has well documented, serious side effects, while the other does not. One of the biggest reasons, if not thee biggest reason, that steroids are illegal in sports is because of the dangers. If you made it legal, then people would be pressured to take steroids from a younger and younger age if they want to keep up with the competition and it would be ingrained in sports culture, and you don't want to ingrain something with so many ill health effects into a culture that already includes a ton of behavior that is risky to one's health. Hence why something like protein powder or caffeine, both of which could you give a competitive advantage, although the former is done indirectly, are not banned in sports, because their negative effects are minuscule compared to something like steroids. Now steroids are not as dangerous as the media paints them to be, and if you're using quality steroids and doing it responsibly you greatly minimize the side effects, which I suspect is the case with most pro athletes. That being said, it's not easy to "responsibly" take steroids if you're not a professional athlete or actor with millions of dollar and a high status that grants you good connections, and HS sports would certainly feel the trickle down effect of pro sports allowing heavy PEDs like steroids, which is simply unsafe, which is exactly why pro sports would never legalize any form of a PED that has serious side effects or odds of abuse. And please do not argue "well football players already risk their lives by playing the sport itself, so PEDs should be legalized for them," because that is not sound logic, at all. All you'd be doing is making the odds of serious health effects from being part of a football team even greater than they already are, which doesn't make much sense.


You need to paragraph that. It's hard to go point-by-point when it's a wall of text.

Anyways, to say LASIK has no side effects is absurd. My mom had it, had severe pain for a week, then it never fully improved her eyes but it made it so contacts and glasses didn't help her, and now she is losing her vision again.

Some people it completely blinds. It is a SURGERY, it is indeed dangerous and definitely has side effects.


Meanwhile, a lot of PEDs are just naturally occurring hormones that your body makes on its own.

You wouldn't have to encourage PED use amongst younger kids because we know that a lot of things are more harmful to developing people than fully grown adults. Hence why there is an age limit for alcohol and weed where it is legal. (Some age limits are more for limiting it to more matured individuals, like gambling)

There is no reason full-grown adults shouldn't be allowed to take prescribed medications so he can better perform in a dangerous sport that is also his livelihood.

That's like the people who think it makes sense 18 year olds can go fight in a war but can't come home and drink.


QFT.

Also, these "serious" side effects people talk about all go away when cycles are discontinued.

Also, are hyperbaric chambers allowed? Shoule we not play in Denver because of the elevation difference? Afterall, they get the advantage of regenerating red blood cells faster due to the higher altitude.
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RandyMossIsBoss


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubyajay wrote:
Withmy89vision wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
One large difference between lasik and steroid use is that one has well documented, serious side effects, while the other does not. One of the biggest reasons, if not thee biggest reason, that steroids are illegal in sports is because of the dangers. If you made it legal, then people would be pressured to take steroids from a younger and younger age if they want to keep up with the competition and it would be ingrained in sports culture, and you don't want to ingrain something with so many ill health effects into a culture that already includes a ton of behavior that is risky to one's health. Hence why something like protein powder or caffeine, both of which could you give a competitive advantage, although the former is done indirectly, are not banned in sports, because their negative effects are minuscule compared to something like steroids. Now steroids are not as dangerous as the media paints them to be, and if you're using quality steroids and doing it responsibly you greatly minimize the side effects, which I suspect is the case with most pro athletes. That being said, it's not easy to "responsibly" take steroids if you're not a professional athlete or actor with millions of dollar and a high status that grants you good connections, and HS sports would certainly feel the trickle down effect of pro sports allowing heavy PEDs like steroids, which is simply unsafe, which is exactly why pro sports would never legalize any form of a PED that has serious side effects or odds of abuse. And please do not argue "well football players already risk their lives by playing the sport itself, so PEDs should be legalized for them," because that is not sound logic, at all. All you'd be doing is making the odds of serious health effects from being part of a football team even greater than they already are, which doesn't make much sense.


You need to paragraph that. It's hard to go point-by-point when it's a wall of text.

Anyways, to say LASIK has no side effects is absurd. My mom had it, had severe pain for a week, then it never fully improved her eyes but it made it so contacts and glasses didn't help her, and now she is losing her vision again.

Some people it completely blinds. It is a SURGERY, it is indeed dangerous and definitely has side effects.


Meanwhile, a lot of PEDs are just naturally occurring hormones that your body makes on its own.

You wouldn't have to encourage PED use amongst younger kids because we know that a lot of things are more harmful to developing people than fully grown adults. Hence why there is an age limit for alcohol and weed where it is legal. (Some age limits are more for limiting it to more matured individuals, like gambling)

There is no reason full-grown adults shouldn't be allowed to take prescribed medications so he can better perform in a dangerous sport that is also his livelihood.

That's like the people who think it makes sense 18 year olds can go fight in a war but can't come home and drink.


QFT.

Also, these "serious" side effects people talk about all go away when cycles are discontinued.

Also, are hyperbaric chambers allowed? Shoule we not play in Denver because of the elevation difference? Afterall, they get the advantage of regenerating red blood cells faster due to the higher altitude.

Wow, that is just 100% false. I'd like you to show me one peer reviewed study that even remotely supports that claim, unless you don't consider a general degeneration of the human body as "serious," which certainly is a side effect that can occur if you use steroids for a long time.


You guys are just reaching with these examples. If you truly think lasik eye surgery or hyperbaric chambers are equivalent to steroids then I'm not sure what to tell you. First off, I guess I was wrong that lasik doesn't have side effects, so let me rephrase that, vision correction does not have side effects (or at least a lot less side effects than continuing to have uncorrected vision would have). How you choose to correct your vision is up to you, whether it's through contacts or lasik is up to you, but both are equally improving your eye sight. Correcting your vision is actually going to benefit your health, while not correcting it is going to harm your health, and this applies a large majority of the time. Where as with steroids, using them is harmful to to your health, while not taking them is not harmful, and this applies a large majority of the time. See the difference? Hence why one is allowed in pro sports, even if it's giving players an advantage, while something like steroids is not. Not to mention one, vision correction, is helping you reach "normal," while the other, steroids, is helping you achieve levels above "normal."

Encourage? What are you talking about? Do you think baseball coaches encourage chewing tobacco? Do you think football coaches encourage TD celebrations? Do you think basketball coaches encourage hero ball? No, but they occur at the pro level for various reasons, and as a result trickle down to lower levels like college or HS. You hear/see pros doing it, you want to be a pro, ergo you do it. If steroids become accepted and legal in pro sports, there is little doubt steroid use would be bumped significantly in college and HS. If pro sports allowed steroids do you honestly think HSers and college kids would be mature enough to think "I will wait until I am in the NFL where I can receive steroids in the safest way possible".... No, they will think "I'm going to get a head up on my competition by taking steroids now!" I mean that's the whole damn point of steroids, to gain a competitive advantage. If athletes are allowed to take X amount of steroids, then those who would have previously taken X amount of steroids for the advantage would now take 2X amount of steroids. This is pretty simple stuff.

"Why shouldn't full grown adults be allowed to take steroids?" Are you not aware that it is common for a man to continue growing until 25? Or are you not aware that a large chunk of NFL players are younger than 25? So yeah, that idea doesn't really hold up too well.

I hope the paragraphs weren't too big for you to read.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24813319

Quote:
J Biol Regul Homeost Agents. 2013 Apr-Jun;27(2 Suppl):107-14.
Potential neurodegenerative effect of anabolic androgenic steroid abuse.
Scaccianoce S, Caruso A, Miele J, Nistico' R, Nicoletti F.
Author information Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Sapienza University of Rome, Rome, Italy.
Abstract
Anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) are synthetic androgen-like compounds which are abused in sport communities despite their side effects. AAS abuse has been coupled with several medical complications, such as sterility, gynecomastia, and increased risk of cardiovascular and hepatic diseases. More recently, it has been observed that non-medical use of these steroids is frequently associated with changes in mood as well as cognitive deficits. Although the nature of this association is still largely unexplored, recent animal studies have shown the neurodegenerative potential of these compounds ranging from neurotrophin unbalance to increased neuronal susceptibility to apoptotic stimuli. Hence, exposure to AASs may result in a compromised brain, more susceptible, later in life, to the onset or progression of diseases not usually linked to drug abuse, especially neurodegenerative diseases.

PMID:24813319[PubMed - in process]


I bolded a few of the points for those looking for more information. The connection (or at least the linkage) between steroid use and CTE is not far reaching.

Thinking there are not side effects of increasing the amount of a substance (to levels reaching multiple times the physiological norm) within the human body is foolish.
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Withmy89vision


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 3597
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24813319

Quote:
J Biol Regul Homeost Agents. 2013 Apr-Jun;27(2 Suppl):107-14.
Potential neurodegenerative effect of anabolic androgenic steroid abuse.
Scaccianoce S, Caruso A, Miele J, Nistico' R, Nicoletti F.
Author information Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Sapienza University of Rome, Rome, Italy.
Abstract
Anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) are synthetic androgen-like compounds which are abused in sport communities despite their side effects. AAS abuse has been coupled with several medical complications, such as sterility, gynecomastia, and increased risk of cardiovascular and hepatic diseases. More recently, it has been observed that non-medical use of these steroids is frequently associated with changes in mood as well as cognitive deficits. Although the nature of this association is still largely unexplored, recent animal studies have shown the neurodegenerative potential of these compounds ranging from neurotrophin unbalance to increased neuronal susceptibility to apoptotic stimuli. Hence, exposure to AASs may result in a compromised brain, more susceptible, later in life, to the onset or progression of diseases not usually linked to drug abuse, especially neurodegenerative diseases.

PMID:24813319[PubMed - in process]


I bolded a few of the points for those looking for more information. The connection (or at least the linkage) between steroid use and CTE is not far reaching.

Thinking there are not side effects of increasing the amount of a substance (to levels reaching multiple times the physiological norm) within the human body is foolish.



No one ever claimed there were no side effects. I'm saying the side effects are massively overrated, especially if you use them correctly.

I think the whole idea of having people compete in an activity that can very easily cripple them but then saying "oh, they might have side effects" from a naturally occurring hormone is ridiculous.

People know the claims on illegal drugs like marijuana have been massively exaggerated but don't assume the same about steroids.


You are supposed to cycle PEDs in a controlled manner, which a doctor can help with if it were legal. Instead by it being illegal you encourage people who have no idea what they are doing to take it willy-nilly.

The fact of the matter is, steroids aren't going away. The vast majority of athletes in any sport are going to do them. You can either have them used in a controlled, safer manner or you can pretend that nobody does them then punish the few you catch very severely.
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Blahman88


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stallyns wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
RuskieTitan wrote:
Not surprised. It was obvious he was juicing, just a matter of time before he got caught.


This isn't supposed to be rude at all, but why was it obvious?

(I didn't really see him much so IDK anything here, just want to know)
Ruskie posts this in every thread where someone gets busted.

http://overthecap.com/costs-lane-johnsons-suspension/

Quote:
Per the CBA rules Johnson will be required to pay back 4/17ths of his signing bonus proration for the season. In addition he will forfeit a portion of a roster bonus that he will be paid in August and will lose 4/17ths of his $495,000 base salary. All told that should add up to a loss of $934,226 for Johnson. He had been scheduled to earn $1,307,404, so he will now play the season out for just $373,388. It is also likely that his guarantees will void with the suspension as it is common for teams to have clauses that coid future guarantees following suspension. Johnsonís contract is fully guaranteed.


He's the supplier
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Dubyajay


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24813319

Quote:
J Biol Regul Homeost Agents. 2013 Apr-Jun;27(2 Suppl):107-14.
Potential neurodegenerative effect of anabolic androgenic steroid abuse.
Scaccianoce S, Caruso A, Miele J, Nistico' R, Nicoletti F.
Author information Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Sapienza University of Rome, Rome, Italy.
Abstract
Anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) are synthetic androgen-like compounds which are abused in sport communities despite their side effects. AAS abuse has been coupled with several medical complications, such as sterility, gynecomastia, and increased risk of cardiovascular and hepatic diseases. More recently, it has been observed that non-medical use of these steroids is frequently associated with changes in mood as well as cognitive deficits. Although the nature of this association is still largely unexplored, recent animal studies have shown the neurodegenerative potential of these compounds ranging from neurotrophin unbalance to increased neuronal susceptibility to apoptotic stimuli. Hence, exposure to AASs may result in a compromised brain, more susceptible, later in life, to the onset or progression of diseases not usually linked to drug abuse, especially neurodegenerative diseases.

PMID:24813319[PubMed - in process]


I bolded a few of the points for those looking for more information. The connection (or at least the linkage) between steroid use and CTE is not far reaching.

Thinking there are not side effects of increasing the amount of a substance (to levels reaching multiple times the physiological norm) within the human body is foolish.


Where is the rest of the article? All that is is just an abstract. I'd like the full article so I could look at it in full to see how they designed this "long-term study". And that is quite an extrapolation to say that there are links to CTE. Did you use a critical eye when looking at this paper? Look at their methods? Look at their results and how they got there? Or just assume because you found it in a database that it is peer reviewed, therefore the abstract must be true. What do the results say?

Here is the answer to all of this. There won't be any data on this because the powers that be have deemed steroids to be bad and therefore made them illegal. So in turn, there haven't been any long term studies done in a controlled environment.

Therefore; until we take the government out of the equation and legalize them so we can do some trials, the best we have are case studies on individuals. There have been plenty of athletes stories of cycling for an extended period of time without ill effects.
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Legacyof52


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steroids are legal in some countries and they do pose health risks. That is usually a result of someone who uses steroids with no knowledge of PCT and what to take during a cycle.

This isn't much of an issue to me. There is so much pressure on athletes to take performance enhancing drugs, when playing for a new contract, a roster spot, and other factors. I can totally understand how someone can fall for that temptation.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TIL all steroids are testosterone.


Fun fact, my son has asthma and takes albueterol. That is a banned steroid in the NFL. Little guy dreams of being a football player, but I think my constant reminders that he's a doper are slowly sinking in and crushing his dreams.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
TIL all steroids are testosterone.


Fun fact, my son has asthma and takes albueterol. That is a banned steroid in the NFL. Little guy dreams of being a football player, but I think my constant reminders that he's a doper are slowly sinking in and crushing his dreams.


First of all Albuterol is not a steroid. It is a β2-adrenergic agonists. Your kid could be taking a medication that has combination of a β2 agonist and a streroid like Symbicort. 2nd, I think you are confusing Anabolic Steroids and Corticosteroids.
Corticosteroids are used to treat any inflamtion process. NFL player are allowed to use medication to treat illness when supervised by a physician. Players that have clinically diagnosed ADHD can use Adderall when the league is properly notifed. I assure you that there any many NFL player that have Asthma, and all of them have rescue inhalers that contain Albuterol.
If your kid is good enough to make it to the NFL...Im confident Albuterol wont hold him back!!!
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