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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19756
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aldashex86 wrote:
Myth wrote:
Garrett is locked into #1.

There's a reason you see many of the top 5 players going where they go. The blue chip players don't get overlooked for need. Some may disagree after 5 about who the top players are because their values may fluctuate with need. But the top 5 don't usually fall unless something weird happens, like a gas-mask video released minutes before the draft.

Mocks that do that for the sake of "changing it up" risk scorn or harsher. It's gotta make sense to each team's fans. Do I personally think Cleveland is capable of screwing up the unscrewable? Well, yeah maybe. But I'm not a Cleveland fan. We've seen some weird stuff happen in the past, so there's a little niggle of doubt.

Do I believe that they will screw it up? I really don't. Sashi Brown isn't doing Al Davis impersonations, may he RIP.

Now as you get further down the board, weird things can and do happen more frequently because the differences in player values are combined with various needs to make some very strange alcoholic drinks. And every team values different qualities for positions according to their scheme.

That's the fun part for us mock draft fans to juxtapose individual talents to scheme needs... And this board has some very insightful fans. My brain explodes trying to think about all the different ways my main team could go, much less trying to figure out what 31 other teams are going to do. So I appreciate each and every one of you all who make up multi round mocks. I don't say that enough.

What I don't appreciate is mockers who say that something could happen just because it's the Browns... or the Bills...or the Chargers ...or the Lions, etc. Mock draft fans like logic. First, last, and in between. You want atta boys... Hit me with logic.
q

The Browns literally traded up for Johnny Manziel because he called them and said "Hurry up and draft me already.". So yeah... forgive my ignorance thinking the Browns might do something that many think is unwise because they panic.

You want logic? The Browns have a huge need at QB. The teams with probably the only bigger needs at QB pick at 2 and 6. They are both interested in Trubisky. This draft is supremely deep in edge rushers and corners. Two of the Brown's other needs. I mean they could possibly get a guy who broke Reggie White's college sack record at #12.

So once again... do I think it will happen? No. Am I 100 percent certain it won't? No. I'm not even 80 percent certain it won't. And you saying someone is locked in to a draft spot is using far less logic than anyone else. No one is a lock. At some point last year Tunsil was called a lock at #1.


Different GM, different coach drafted Johnny. All out of the NFL, FWIW.

At least recognize who is making the pick.

This GM traded down to 8 with Carson Wentz in his lap. Not going to overdraft a QB just because of need.
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aldashex86


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 302
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
aldashex86 wrote:
Myth wrote:
Garrett is locked into #1.

There's a reason you see many of the top 5 players going where they go. The blue chip players don't get overlooked for need. Some may disagree after 5 about who the top players are because their values may fluctuate with need. But the top 5 don't usually fall unless something weird happens, like a gas-mask video released minutes before the draft.

Mocks that do that for the sake of "changing it up" risk scorn or harsher. It's gotta make sense to each team's fans. Do I personally think Cleveland is capable of screwing up the unscrewable? Well, yeah maybe. But I'm not a Cleveland fan. We've seen some weird stuff happen in the past, so there's a little niggle of doubt.

Do I believe that they will screw it up? I really don't. Sashi Brown isn't doing Al Davis impersonations, may he RIP.

Now as you get further down the board, weird things can and do happen more frequently because the differences in player values are combined with various needs to make some very strange alcoholic drinks. And every team values different qualities for positions according to their scheme.

That's the fun part for us mock draft fans to juxtapose individual talents to scheme needs... And this board has some very insightful fans. My brain explodes trying to think about all the different ways my main team could go, much less trying to figure out what 31 other teams are going to do. So I appreciate each and every one of you all who make up multi round mocks. I don't say that enough.

What I don't appreciate is mockers who say that something could happen just because it's the Browns... or the Bills...or the Chargers ...or the Lions, etc. Mock draft fans like logic. First, last, and in between. You want atta boys... Hit me with logic.
q

The Browns literally traded up for Johnny Manziel because he called them and said "Hurry up and draft me already.". So yeah... forgive my ignorance thinking the Browns might do something that many think is unwise because they panic.

You want logic? The Browns have a huge need at QB. The teams with probably the only bigger needs at QB pick at 2 and 6. They are both interested in Trubisky. This draft is supremely deep in edge rushers and corners. Two of the Brown's other needs. I mean they could possibly get a guy who broke Reggie White's college sack record at #12.

So once again... do I think it will happen? No. Am I 100 percent certain it won't? No. I'm not even 80 percent certain it won't. And you saying someone is locked in to a draft spot is using far less logic than anyone else. No one is a lock. At some point last year Tunsil was called a lock at #1.


Different GM, different coach drafted Johnny. All out of the NFL, FWIW.

At least recognize who is making the pick.

This GM traded down to 8 with Carson Wentz in his lap. Not going to overdraft a QB just because of need.


We will see in one week.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19756
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aldashex86 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
aldashex86 wrote:
Myth wrote:
Garrett is locked into #1.

There's a reason you see many of the top 5 players going where they go. The blue chip players don't get overlooked for need. Some may disagree after 5 about who the top players are because their values may fluctuate with need. But the top 5 don't usually fall unless something weird happens, like a gas-mask video released minutes before the draft.

Mocks that do that for the sake of "changing it up" risk scorn or harsher. It's gotta make sense to each team's fans. Do I personally think Cleveland is capable of screwing up the unscrewable? Well, yeah maybe. But I'm not a Cleveland fan. We've seen some weird stuff happen in the past, so there's a little niggle of doubt.

Do I believe that they will screw it up? I really don't. Sashi Brown isn't doing Al Davis impersonations, may he RIP.

Now as you get further down the board, weird things can and do happen more frequently because the differences in player values are combined with various needs to make some very strange alcoholic drinks. And every team values different qualities for positions according to their scheme.

That's the fun part for us mock draft fans to juxtapose individual talents to scheme needs... And this board has some very insightful fans. My brain explodes trying to think about all the different ways my main team could go, much less trying to figure out what 31 other teams are going to do. So I appreciate each and every one of you all who make up multi round mocks. I don't say that enough.

What I don't appreciate is mockers who say that something could happen just because it's the Browns... or the Bills...or the Chargers ...or the Lions, etc. Mock draft fans like logic. First, last, and in between. You want atta boys... Hit me with logic.
q

The Browns literally traded up for Johnny Manziel because he called them and said "Hurry up and draft me already.". So yeah... forgive my ignorance thinking the Browns might do something that many think is unwise because they panic.

You want logic? The Browns have a huge need at QB. The teams with probably the only bigger needs at QB pick at 2 and 6. They are both interested in Trubisky. This draft is supremely deep in edge rushers and corners. Two of the Brown's other needs. I mean they could possibly get a guy who broke Reggie White's college sack record at #12.

So once again... do I think it will happen? No. Am I 100 percent certain it won't? No. I'm not even 80 percent certain it won't. And you saying someone is locked in to a draft spot is using far less logic than anyone else. No one is a lock. At some point last year Tunsil was called a lock at #1.


Different GM, different coach drafted Johnny. All out of the NFL, FWIW.

At least recognize who is making the pick.

This GM traded down to 8 with Carson Wentz in his lap. Not going to overdraft a QB just because of need.


We will see in one week.


Those of us paying attention don't need to wait to see.
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Myth


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aldashex86 wrote:
Myth wrote:
Garrett is locked into #1.

There's a reason you see many of the top 5 players going where they go. The blue chip players don't get overlooked for need. Some may disagree after 5 about who the top players are because their values may fluctuate with need. But the top 5 don't usually fall unless something weird happens, like a gas-mask video released minutes before the draft.

Mocks that do that for the sake of "changing it up" risk scorn or harsher. It's gotta make sense to each team's fans. Do I personally think Cleveland is capable of screwing up the unscrewable? Well, yeah maybe. But I'm not a Cleveland fan. We've seen some weird stuff happen in the past, so there's a little niggle of doubt.

Do I believe that they will screw it up? I really don't. Sashi Brown isn't doing Al Davis impersonations, may he RIP.

Now as you get further down the board, weird things can and do happen more frequently because the differences in player values are combined with various needs to make some very strange alcoholic drinks. And every team values different qualities for positions according to their scheme.

That's the fun part for us mock draft fans to juxtapose individual talents to scheme needs... And this board has some very insightful fans. My brain explodes trying to think about all the different ways my main team could go, much less trying to figure out what 31 other teams are going to do. So I appreciate each and every one of you all who make up multi round mocks. I don't say that enough.

What I don't appreciate is mockers who say that something could happen just because it's the Browns... or the Bills...or the Chargers ...or the Lions, etc. Mock draft fans like logic. First, last, and in between. You want atta boys... Hit me with logic.
q

The Browns literally traded up for Johnny Manziel because he called them and said "Hurry up and draft me already.". So yeah... forgive my ignorance thinking the Browns might do something that many think is unwise because they panic.

You want logic? The Browns have a huge need at QB. The teams with probably the only bigger needs at QB pick at 2 and 6. They are both interested in Trubisky. This draft is supremely deep in edge rushers and corners. Two of the Brown's other needs. I mean they could possibly get a guy who broke Reggie White's college sack record at #12.

So once again... do I think it will happen? No. Am I 100 percent certain it won't? No. I'm not even 80 percent certain it won't. And you saying someone is locked in to a draft spot is using far less logic than anyone else. No one is a lock. At some point last year Tunsil was called a lock at #1.


In case you missed the logic: Myles Garrett is a lock for #1 because he is a blue chip player who doesn't get overlooked because of a need. Especially, and I didn't think it was necessary to articulate this, since none of these QBs are good enough to make Cleveland overlook him. And since Cleveland has multiple picks they have more ammunition than any other team to move to where they want to get the qb that they do like. Or they can just build their team with BPA since they have holes everywhere.

If that was you hitting me with logic, I'm not sure I felt it yet. You hit like a toddler.😀

To be serious for a moment, I appreciate you putting the original mock out there. That takes guts. But your responses to disagreement / criticism were juvenile. There is no need for that here.

Each team's fans know more about their own team then you or I will. We have to accept that and learn from what they say. Will they be 100% right all the time? No. But, they are going to know scheme fits and GM tendencies better than we are, so they are probably going to be right about their team more often than we are going to be. I see it a lot, but judging a fan's intelligence by their team's success is not a great way of approaching conversations on these boards.

I also realize fans of the same team aren't going to always agree, either. And I think the ones that use logic are more credible, don't you?

Anyway, sorry to get you riled up. Thanks for the discussion.
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aldashex86


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 302
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Myth wrote:
aldashex86 wrote:
Myth wrote:
Garrett is locked into #1.

There's a reason you see many of the top 5 players going where they go. The blue chip players don't get overlooked for need. Some may disagree after 5 about who the top players are because their values may fluctuate with need. But the top 5 don't usually fall unless something weird happens, like a gas-mask video released minutes before the draft.

Mocks that do that for the sake of "changing it up" risk scorn or harsher. It's gotta make sense to each team's fans. Do I personally think Cleveland is capable of screwing up the unscrewable? Well, yeah maybe. But I'm not a Cleveland fan. We've seen some weird stuff happen in the past, so there's a little niggle of doubt.

Do I believe that they will screw it up? I really don't. Sashi Brown isn't doing Al Davis impersonations, may he RIP.

Now as you get further down the board, weird things can and do happen more frequently because the differences in player values are combined with various needs to make some very strange alcoholic drinks. And every team values different qualities for positions according to their scheme.

That's the fun part for us mock draft fans to juxtapose individual talents to scheme needs... And this board has some very insightful fans. My brain explodes trying to think about all the different ways my main team could go, much less trying to figure out what 31 other teams are going to do. So I appreciate each and every one of you all who make up multi round mocks. I don't say that enough.

What I don't appreciate is mockers who say that something could happen just because it's the Browns... or the Bills...or the Chargers ...or the Lions, etc. Mock draft fans like logic. First, last, and in between. You want atta boys... Hit me with logic.
q

The Browns literally traded up for Johnny Manziel because he called them and said "Hurry up and draft me already.". So yeah... forgive my ignorance thinking the Browns might do something that many think is unwise because they panic.

You want logic? The Browns have a huge need at QB. The teams with probably the only bigger needs at QB pick at 2 and 6. They are both interested in Trubisky. This draft is supremely deep in edge rushers and corners. Two of the Brown's other needs. I mean they could possibly get a guy who broke Reggie White's college sack record at #12.

So once again... do I think it will happen? No. Am I 100 percent certain it won't? No. I'm not even 80 percent certain it won't. And you saying someone is locked in to a draft spot is using far less logic than anyone else. No one is a lock. At some point last year Tunsil was called a lock at #1.


In case you missed the logic: Myles Garrett is a lock for #1 because he is a blue chip player who doesn't get overlooked because of a need. Especially, and I didn't think it was necessary to articulate this, since none of these QBs are good enough to make Cleveland overlook him. And since Cleveland has multiple picks they have more ammunition than any other team to move to where they want to get the qb that they do like. Or they can just build their team with BPA since they have holes everywhere.

If that was you hitting me with logic, I'm not sure I felt it yet. You hit like a toddler.😀

To be serious for a moment, I appreciate you putting the original mock out there. That takes guts. But your responses to disagreement / criticism were juvenile. There is no need for that here.

Each team's fans know more about their own team then you or I will. We have to accept that and learn from what they say. Will they be 100% right all the time? No. But, they are going to know scheme fits and GM tendencies better than we are, so they are probably going to be right about their team more often than we are going to be. I see it a lot, but judging a fan's intelligence by their team's success is not a great way of approaching conversations on these boards.

I also realize fans of the same team aren't going to always agree, either. And I think the ones that use logic are more credible, don't you?

Anyway, sorry to get you riled up. Thanks for the discussion.


Please let me know which response of mine was juvenile. The only one lobbing around insults would be you. My point, which I have said several times, is there are no locks. That's why we all love the NFL draft. Myles Garrett is the number one talent but, it's not like he is an Andrew Luck.

This is a quarterback driven league and a league of what have you done for me lately. Organizations preach rebuilding and patience all the time and then end up blowing things up. Look at Chip Kelly.

You wanted reasons why Cleveland would take Mitchell at 1. I gave them to you. The most convincing being that the very next pick needs a QB and if they want him, they will not trade with the Browns. Whether those reasons convince you is irrelevant. The logic is there. I can give you reasons that they should choose other players too. Doesn't mean they will.

I never insulted any fan's intelligence. Literally all I have said is it could happen. And it could. I have also stated over and over that I don't think it will. Have I insulted the Brown's previous choices?? Sure. But, who hasn't? Including Brown's fans. But, saying that it will not happen at all... ever... That's asking for disappointment. I remember saying that Tim Tebow wouldn't beat the Steelers defense in the playoffs.... boy was I disappointed.

You attacked me for having a different mock (even though this was done by 4 people who are fans of 3 different teams) and then praised me for being brave enough to post a different mock. Genius.
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"Everybody (says), 'Well, he hits guys when they're not looking. Well, should I tap on your shoulder and say, 'Here I come, hit me?' At the end of the day, I just play football the way it should be played."

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FalconFan13


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 11608
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aldashex86 wrote:
FalconFan13 wrote:
Im ok with it for the Falcons. We lost out on some better players right before our pick sadly. Might look at Harris or Watt there as well over Lamp as i think Edge rusher is a more important position than RG. But Lamp might be the better player of the 3 so it goes value of player vs value of position at that point.


I really appreciate that you always offer great input, honestly. Watt went to the Lions earlier but, I understand they need an edge. The Steelers do as well but, I went CB just because not alot of edge players have went so far. There could be a lot of quality edge players that go in round 2, though.


Appologize didn't see Watt going that early when i 1st looked which makes it even more likely that we could go Lamp. Harris is a good player but as you said their are 2nd round Edge rushers not much worse than him like Willis, Bowser, or Rivers. A OG that fits our scheme is gonna be a bit harder to narrow down later in the draft if we miss out on guys like Feeney, Johnson, or Isidora in the rounds their expected to go.

As always i enjoy your mocks and where i might criticize them at times i always enjoy the discussion and i like the rest of us have no fricken clue who the team really wants come draft day Very Happy

As for the CB thing im guessing that was for the Steelers and not us you was talking about as we took Lamp at OG. CB would be a really bad pick for us our CB group is ridiculously talented and all young under contract.
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Nickpeloso1


Joined: 21 Feb 2015
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garretts going #1 lets just get that out there. Cowboys won't go offense under any circumstance so no to Njoku
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Wolfhunt


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1264
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aldashex86 wrote:


The Browns literally traded up for Johnny Manziel because he called them and said "Hurry up and draft me already.". So yeah... forgive my ignorance thinking the Browns might do something that many think is unwise because they panic.

You want logic? The Browns have a huge need at QB. The teams with probably the only bigger needs at QB pick at 2 and 6. They are both interested in Trubisky. This draft is supremely deep in edge rushers and corners. Two of the Brown's other needs. I mean they could possibly get a guy who broke Reggie White's college sack record at #12.

So once again... do I think it will happen? No. Am I 100 percent certain it won't? No. I'm not even 80 percent certain it won't. And you saying someone is locked in to a draft spot is using far less logic than anyone else. No one is a lock. At some point last year Tunsil was called a lock at #1.


No that is not at all accurate why they traded up for him. It was Haslam forcing the hand and making that pick. He learned his lesson after 2 years of a circus. He will not make that mistake again.

The current Browns starter had better stats then some guy named Carson Wentz who was passed over by this same exact front office. The 3 consistent QB's who are mentioned in the first are nowhere near as good as Wentz. There is not a single end who has the traits that Garrett has. If they did then they would be talked about at #1 but it is not even close.
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aldashex86


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfhunt wrote:
aldashex86 wrote:


The Browns literally traded up for Johnny Manziel because he called them and said "Hurry up and draft me already.". So yeah... forgive my ignorance thinking the Browns might do something that many think is unwise because they panic.

You want logic? The Browns have a huge need at QB. The teams with probably the only bigger needs at QB pick at 2 and 6. They are both interested in Trubisky. This draft is supremely deep in edge rushers and corners. Two of the Brown's other needs. I mean they could possibly get a guy who broke Reggie White's college sack record at #12.

So once again... do I think it will happen? No. Am I 100 percent certain it won't? No. I'm not even 80 percent certain it won't. And you saying someone is locked in to a draft spot is using far less logic than anyone else. No one is a lock. At some point last year Tunsil was called a lock at #1.


No that is not at all accurate why they traded up for him. It was Haslam forcing the hand and making that pick. He learned his lesson after 2 years of a circus. He will not make that mistake again.

The current Browns starter had better stats then some guy named Carson Wentz who was passed over by this same exact front office. The 3 consistent QB's who are mentioned in the first are nowhere near as good as Wentz. There is not a single end who has the traits that Garrett has. If they did then they would be talked about at #1 but it is not even close.


That's exactly why they traded up for him. It Doesn't matter who he said that to. That's what happened. And it's actually even worse that you are admitting it was the fault of the one person who is still there.

I don't understand why Wentz keeps being mentioned? Because they passed on him so that means they will pass on these lesser QBs? But, everyone still knows that Cleveland WILL draft a QB in the first 2 rounds. They have passed on good QBs in the past. And followed that up by drafting a QB.

Everyone keeps saying this is a new group and that's why it won't happen. It's always a new gm, a new coach, a new coordinator. The same people did not make all the mistake for the Browns. It was different people who drafted Johnny, Weeden, Quinn, Winslow, Courrney Brown, etc. You know what they have not done? Drafted a QB in the top 10 since Couch. As bad as this team has been, they haven't done that. It seems like every year they are bad But, haven't been bad enough to get Luck, or Cam, or Stafford, or Ryan, or any of the other guys that they thought were can't miss QBs.

They are drafting somewhere that they haven't drafted in over 15 years. I know that you and all of the other fortune tellers here know the pick already but, I am not the only one saying this could happen. Because it could. No matter how much you try to convince yourself it couldn't. That doesn't change the fact that it could.
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