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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19459
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I wouldn't complain one bit with Reuben Foster, especially if he falls to us at #20. I also appreciate your analytical approach and you really do not say anything about McCaffrey with which I disagree. I'm just going on an eyeball test; I like what I see in McCaffrey but I will fully admit I have not had time the last several years to study draft prospects as closely as I have in year's past.

Another thing that has been on my mind of late is how much, if at all, will PR affect the draft decision. McCaffrey is the overwhelming choice of the fanbase, just as Kyle was in the HC search, and Elway went the another direction and didn't really seem to care. Perhaps Elway and Ellis figure that between Elway's name and Super Bowl 50 they can weather any storm.

However, having lived in this state all my life, I know two things for certain. The fan base's patience with Vance will be short as will their patience with any rookie not name Christian McCaffrey we draft in the first round.

As we've seen before, things can get really ugly around here real quick.
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big_palooka:

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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 24142
Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Oh I wouldn't complain one bit with Reuben Foster, especially if he falls to us at #20. I also appreciate your analytical approach and you really do not say anything about McCaffrey with which I disagree. I'm just going on an eyeball test; I like what I see in McCaffrey but I will fully admit I have not had time the last several years to study draft prospects as closely as I have in year's past.

Another thing that has been on my mind of late is how much, if at all, will PR affect the draft decision. McCaffrey is the overwhelming choice of the fanbase, just as Kyle was in the HC search, and Elway went the another direction and didn't really seem to care. Perhaps Elway and Ellis figure that between Elway's name and Super Bowl 50 they can weather any storm.

However, having lived in this state all my life, I know two things for certain. The fan base's patience with Vance will be short as will their patience with any rookie not name Christian McCaffrey we draft in the first round.

As we've seen before, things can get really ugly around here real quick.


This is slightly hyperbolic.

I do agree that if Joseph doesn't perform well, he's gonna have a shorter leash with Broncos fans than Shanahan would have, but that also presupposes Shanahan is performing well in SF. Frankly, if Joseph performs well, fans aren't going to care. Winning cures everything.

I do disagree on the McCaffrey part. If he's there at 20 and we didn't select him, I think you would be more correct but if he gets taken as high as 8th like is being rumored no one will give anyone grief for that.

Most of Broncos country (of which a good subsection is reflected on sites like MHR) are gung-ho for a tackle. There's a few who like McCaffrey, but tackle is WAY more of a focus for the casual fan.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3580
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serious Q - is everyone finding an issue with posting where the banners are mega-huge and the pages aren't loading properly?

I blame Counselor and his sig. Laughing

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Query aside, one more point to consider on Foster - he's a top 10 prospect, #8 overall on my board, and that elite 9+ level talent ceiling (perennial Pro Bowler) I talked about before. So that alone justifies taking him at 1.20 IMO. Even if it makes all the T guys pass (and I will shed a tear myself too, but having an All Pro, top-of-league quarterback LB to pair with Marshall, that goes a long way in helping our run D and in our pass D against TE/RB, too, our only weak spot there).

But the other point I would get to - as a secondary bonus, if Foster is there (and he may still not fall far enough) - then KC and OAK's top (or 2nd highest need for KC after CB) is ILB. That alone isn't reason to take a ILB, but when you are special like he is..well, you get the idea.

If we go T over Foster and he goes to KC/OAK, I have a sinking feeling that's a decision that would haunt us for 5+ years. Not the reason alone to take a ILB (let KC or OAK take Cunningham!), but I think passing up on an elite, league-dominant ceiling talent like him has that very real potential impact.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3866
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foster would easily be the pick at 1.20 for me. He might be crazy, but having some crazy is helpful on defense, tone setting, and with our veterans hopefully he can keep his crazy on the field (Within the rules) and harness it.

I still don't think he will be there, but if he is, I hope we run to the podium.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3580
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Foster would easily be the pick at 1.20 for me. He might be crazy, but having some crazy is helpful on defense, tone setting, and with our veterans hopefully he can keep his crazy on the field (Within the rules) and harness it.

I still don't think he will be there, but if he is, I hope we run to the podium.


We are spoiled in that we see Tom Jackson and Karl Mecklenburg, and we lived in the Mike Singletary era think most LB's are like them. Smiling, camera-friendly, great interviews.

When the great ones at MLB/ILB are just half-baked nuts, and if you really want to be honest, kinda scary to meet in person. Jack Lambert, Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, and the throwbacks Ditka & Nitschke, even Randy Gradishar had a famous mean streak. Being a ILB you need to be fearless - so a little crazy actually helps, as you said, if it can be channeled properly. We are a great fit for that type of guy - our recent successes with Von and Shane Ray are really good signs the locker room can really channel guys with an edge to productivity.

I pray either we get Foster at 1.20 (the McCaffrey train is long gone, which I'm relieved with, but we've covered that), or he goes before us. I dread the thought of him in a KC or OAK uni.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 24142
Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We snuck in a meeting with Zach Cunningham under the deadline.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
We snuck in a meeting with Zach Cunningham under the deadline.


That scream of pain came from KingBishop's corner. Shocked

Not kidding - http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=578882&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

I'm heartened by the fact we actually interviewed ILB - I'm saddened by the fact it was Cunningham and NOT Jarrad Davis. KB has led the DND train on Cunningham, but give his price (Rd 1-2), I completely agree with him. I'd take Reddick or Davis in a heartbeat over Cunningham any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Cunningham is NOT a guy I'd pass on T for at 1.20 (I'd prefer to move down to get T then if we can swing that, but that's always easier said than done). Great athlete, but not instinctive at all (bad angles), and worse, worst skill is tackling. That's like a WR with bad hands. AVOID. Maybe Reddick & Foster weren't seen as likely to be there at 1.20, or Cunningham is a Day 2 prospect, but man, he's getting a lot of top 50 love, and I wouldn't even consider him at 2.51. Yes, that bad. UGH.

I know we probably didn't even bother interviewing Foster because we thought he'd never be there - but in the bizarro universe where we would consider Cunningham ahead of any of the top 3 ILB's (Foster, Reddick, Davis), well, I'd probably join KB in that neverending scream... Mad
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3866
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zach has been falling recently so hopefully he is being looked at for our R2, but even then I dislike him a bit. I have him after Walker Jr. and see him as a R3 pick through-and-through.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3580
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Zach has been falling recently so hopefully he is being looked at for our R2, but even then I dislike him a bit. I have him after Walker Jr. and see him as a R3 pick through-and-through.


Forgot about Walker Jr. earlier. Would much prefer him or Duke Riley over Cunningham at Rd 3. If someone else takes Cunningham sooner so be it.

Renck's podcast this AM, he believes Foster would be in play at 1.20. Also thought we would not trade up for McCaffrey if it meant getting to 12-range. Glad to hear both. He said Bolles would be the #1 T target over Ramczyk. No mention of Cam Robinson.

Interestingly he brought up Derek Barnett and Malik McDowell as other non-T possibilities at 1.20. I could see Barnett, I fell in love with McDowell initially, but man that game film is tough to watch. I couldn't justify him at 1.20 as I thought could be the case several months ago.

The other part that was good to see on their site - they've clearly recognized that CB along with ILB are long-term needs. Nobrainer call to dip into the CB pool sometime in the first 4 rounds given how deep that class is.

http://broncos.vsporto.com/

For Rd 1 I'd love the board to be:

Foster
Lamp
Reddick
T

would be my order of preference at 1.20. It sure sounds like we are still thinking T over Lamp. Oh well. Glad to hear Foster is clearly a target if he falls to 20. Like BF2010 said, we should run to the podium.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6938
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Foster would easily be the pick at 1.20 for me. He might be crazy, but having some crazy is helpful on defense, tone setting, and with our veterans hopefully he can keep his crazy on the field (Within the rules) and harness it.

I still don't think he will be there, but if he is, I hope we run to the podium.


We are spoiled in that we see Tom Jackson and Karl Mecklenburg, and we lived in the Mike Singletary era think most LB's are like them. Smiling, camera-friendly, great interviews.

When the great ones at MLB/ILB are just half-baked nuts, and if you really want to be honest, kinda scary to meet in person. Jack Lambert, Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, and the throwbacksButkus& Nitschke, even Randy Gradishar had a famous mean streak. Being a ILB you need to be fearless - so a little crazy actually helps, as you said, if it can be channeled properly. We are a great fit for that type of guy - our recent successes with Von and Shane Ray are really good signs the locker room can really channel guys with an edge to productivity.

I pray either we get Foster at 1.20 (the McCaffrey train is long gone, which I'm relieved with, but we've covered that), or he goes before us. I dread the thought of him in a KC or OAK uni.


I figure you just had a Brain Fart considering Ditka was a TE and you left out the scariest MLB in history. I fixed it for ya.
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 2080
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
We snuck in a meeting with Zach Cunningham under the deadline.


That scream of pain came from KingBishop's corner. Shocked

Not kidding - http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=578882&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

I'm heartened by the fact we actually interviewed ILB - I'm saddened by the fact it was Cunningham and NOT Jarrad Davis. KB has led the DND train on Cunningham, but give his price (Rd 1-2), I completely agree with him. I'd take Reddick or Davis in a heartbeat over Cunningham any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Cunningham is NOT a guy I'd pass on T for at 1.20 (I'd prefer to move down to get T then if we can swing that, but that's always easier said than done). Great athlete, but not instinctive at all (bad angles), and worse, worst skill is tackling. That's like a WR with bad hands. AVOID. Maybe Reddick & Foster weren't seen as likely to be there at 1.20, or Cunningham is a Day 2 prospect, but man, he's getting a lot of top 50 love, and I wouldn't even consider him at 2.51. Yes, that bad. UGH.

I know we probably didn't even bother interviewing Foster because we thought he'd never be there - but in the bizarro universe where we would consider Cunningham ahead of any of the top 3 ILB's (Foster, Reddick, Davis), well, I'd probably join KB in that neverending scream... Mad


Yes my hate for Cunningham started long long ago... With a poster name far far away Cool
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6938
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:

Foster
Lamp
Reddick
T

would be my order of preference at 1.20. It sure sounds like we are still thinking T over Lamp. Oh well. Glad to hear Foster is clearly a target if he falls to 20. Like BF2010 said, we should run to the podium.


Can you imagine the fan fallout if we pass on Bolles to get one of the others listed and he goes on to a pro-bowl career, something I fully expect.

Our QB competition would be relegated to "last man standing". Keep in mind, we still don't have a starting caliber OT on our roster, let alone two of them.

I think the fan base would go nuts.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19459
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
I do disagree on the McCaffrey part. If he's there at 20 and we didn't select him, I think you would be more correct but if he gets taken as high as 8th like is being rumored no one will give anyone grief for that.

Yeah that's the point I was attempting to make, sorry I wasn't more clear on that. I don't think McCaffrey is going to last to 20 so its kind of a moot point. I do know, however, that a lot of people want us to trade up for him.

I'm just scared we're going to end up taking one of the OTs at #20 and I think that would be a horrible mistake.
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big_palooka:

bhslinebacker wrote:
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19459
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Can you imagine the fan fallout if we pass on Bolles to get one of the others listed and he goes on to a pro-bowl career, something I fully expect.

Our QB competition would be relegated to "last man standing". Keep in mind, we still don't have a starting caliber OT on our roster, let alone two of them.

I think the fan base would go nuts.

You know OL play well so I'll defer to your judgement, but what do you see in Bolles that you like so much?
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big_palooka:

bhslinebacker wrote:
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3580
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Foster would easily be the pick at 1.20 for me. He might be crazy, but having some crazy is helpful on defense, tone setting, and with our veterans hopefully he can keep his crazy on the field (Within the rules) and harness it.

I still don't think he will be there, but if he is, I hope we run to the podium.


We are spoiled in that we see Tom Jackson and Karl Mecklenburg, and we lived in the Mike Singletary era think most LB's are like them. Smiling, camera-friendly, great interviews.

When the great ones at MLB/ILB are just half-baked nuts, and if you really want to be honest, kinda scary to meet in person. Jack Lambert, Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, and the throwbacksButkus& Nitschke, even Randy Gradishar had a famous mean streak. Being a ILB you need to be fearless - so a little crazy actually helps, as you said, if it can be channeled properly. We are a great fit for that type of guy - our recent successes with Von and Shane Ray are really good signs the locker room can really channel guys with an edge to productivity.

I pray either we get Foster at 1.20 (the McCaffrey train is long gone, which I'm relieved with, but we've covered that), or he goes before us. I dread the thought of him in a KC or OAK uni.


I figure you just had a Brain Fart considering Ditka was a TE and you left out the scariest MLB in history. I fixed it for ya.


18 hours up without sleep (about to end soon). Yes, brain fart, thx.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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