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Arsenal Pt. IX: Finally top our CL group (then draw Bayern)
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Said this a couple of weeks ago:

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
It's always "things could be worse" rather than imagining how things could be better. He's honestly not far off from telling off fans because at least we're not Coventry or Blackburn.


And now, this:

Quote:
Wenger in his programme notes: "I think it's a good opportunity to remind people we are not fighting to not be relegated."

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marky mark


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jack Wilshere is likely to miss the rest of the season amid fears that he has suffered a fracture to his lower left leg.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/18/jack-wilshere-likely-miss-rest-season-scans-show-fracture-lower

Should've sold him last summer.
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TheChancellor


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHAT DID SHE WEAR!?
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on what is leaking out it sounds like there is some division internally at the club where Gazidis is pushing to bring in a DoF and make some structural changes and Arsene is resisting any changes that he sees as undermining his authority. He made more comments along those lines today ("Iím manager of Arsenal Football Club and as long as Iím manager of Arsenal Football Club I will decide what happens on the technical front. Thatís it.") and hasn't really shied away from drawing a line in the sand against the club bringing in a DoF.

This situation is why I've always been skeptical about the idea of there being some 'compromise' solution out there where Wenger stays on at the club for a year or two more but the club gets the wheels in motion for a succession plan, etc. There isn't going to be any reform or restructuring at the club as long as Wenger is here and he's going to push back on anything that he sees as a threat to his own power/authority.

All this talk about Wenger always having the club's best interest at heart all these years and yet we're at a point now where he seems to be motivated only by his own self-interest and is willing to bring the club down as long as he gets his.
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marky mark


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usmanov bid $1.3 billion for Kroenke's stake. Not sure if I'd want Usmanov but I hope Kroenke sells the club.
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Canadian Saint


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Wenger to sign a 2 year extension after the FA final.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/19/arsene-wenger-reveals-future-will-decided-board-meeting-fa-cup/
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boring boring Arsenal.

Been finding myself more and more apathetic to the club, looks like that will continue for quite a bit longer.
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RaykwonDaChef


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So who is gonna knock us out of the round of 16 of Europa? Proverbial Giants Sevilla probably aren't in it this upcoming year.
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PurpleLion


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian Saint wrote:
Looks like Wenger to sign a 2 year extension after the FA final.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/19/arsene-wenger-reveals-future-will-decided-board-meeting-fa-cup/
Was going to post the same article and honestly am not in love with the idea of Wenger remaining or the Director notions. This being embarrassing that Arsenal even has to entertain these kind of notions because their greatest manager does not know when it's right to go away from his role. Furthermore after he has recent years put the club in a position in which their stature is reduced far enough that bringing in any proven guy is not a likelihood. The media keeps bringing up Arsenal wanting to avoid a Manchester United kind of situation. I'm asking what's the difference between bringing in the unproven or keeping the guy you've got now. Either way fifth at best and at least after with the unproven guy or any brand new for that matter it's easier to go forward. Manchester United did bring in a kind of proven guy and have not sank to depths afterward albeit not won either yet going on after the next guy was easier. My thoughts are that if they had won this season then maybe Wenger will have then retired. However the opposite was possible and he might have thought he was what he used to be maybe or thought he's still the only person for Arsenal. This only leverages the club in Wenger's favor based on his ego then who knows when the merry go round all stops. Real Madrid for example do not care how much you have won in the previous or even how much you've recently have won. You don't bring any shame on the club and Real Madrid might not ever have let this develop into a something. Arsenal are no longer the stature of Real Madrid or the like and either are they winning.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleLion wrote:
Canadian Saint wrote:
Looks like Wenger to sign a 2 year extension after the FA final.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/19/arsene-wenger-reveals-future-will-decided-board-meeting-fa-cup/
Was going to post the same article and honestly am not in love with the idea of Wenger remaining or the Director notions. This being embarrassing that Arsenal even has to entertain these kind of notions because their greatest manager does not know when it's right to go away from his role. Furthermore after he has recent years put the club in a position in which their stature is reduced far enough that bringing in any proven guy is not a likelihood. The media keeps bringing up Arsenal wanting to avoid a Manchester United kind of situation. I'm asking what's the difference between bringing in the unproven or keeping the guy you've got now. Either way fifth at best and at least after with the unproven guy or any brand new for that matter it's easier to go forward. Manchester United did bring in a kind of proven guy and have not sank to depths afterward albeit not won either yet going on after the next guy was easier. My thoughts are that if they had won this season then maybe Wenger will have then retired. However the opposite was possible and he might have thought he was what he used to be maybe or thought he's still the only person for Arsenal. This only leverages the club in Wenger's favor based on his ego then who knows when the merry go round all stops. Real Madrid for example do not care how much you have won in the previous or even how much you've recently have won. You don't bring any shame on the club and Real Madrid might not ever have let this develop into a something. Arsenal are no longer the stature of Real Madrid or the like and either are they winning.

Except it's not easier to go forward if an unproven guy (let's be realistic, it's guyS - no one man is going to fill all the job vacancies that Wenger fills at the club - that's honestly a bigger part of the issue... he's stretched himself too thin and stubbornly isn't willing trust but a select few to do jobs to his satisfaction so he instead does it himself) dips the club down to the bottom of the table and the club is then trying to "rebuild" on back of a board with no footballing minds on it and Kroenke having little ambition to outlay an kind of major expense that doesn't stand to bring back a heavy ROI and right quick.

We're not comparable to United. United is a special kind of rich where clubs are concerned. I'm ready to see the backside of Wenger, but this notion that anyone would be better than him is complete crap. Is he stubborn and sporting a big ego? Yes. Those are also qualities that you'll find in just about every great manager. Hell, if the FA would ever hire a manager for their national side that had the stubbornness and ego to say, "This is my team and I'll pick who I want for it and deploy what tactic I want to," rather than someone they can dictate to, their national team likely wouldn't be the running punchline that it has been for nearly 20 years.

I constantly see Arsenal "supporters" slandering the man, talking about how he "doesn't respect the fans," "puts himself before the club." And frankly I'm disgusted by it; they legitimately come off like spoiled children whose mommy told them they can't have ice cream for dinner. Arsene absolutely loves the club. And he's operating with considerably more knowledge of both the game and the way the club is run from the board's end than any of us are. It's odd how no one has ever considered that perhaps the reason he's been reluctant to walk away is because he recognizes the structure of things as they are at the club (given that not a damn member of the board outside of a very iffy argument for Gadzidis - who has been as silent as Stan - knows a lick about European football) could go to hell in a handbasket very quickly with the Board calling the shots.

His presser today was starting to become very telling and then someone went and shifted the topic of discussion at a very inopportune time. We'll see what develops, but I'm getting the genuine feeling that Arsene is not a big Kroenke supporter - and before people even bring it up, you can't have a manager in an open "battle" with with ownership without it tearing the club itself apart.
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LeeEvans


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying that you don't have a point because you very well might but I feel like it's just another excuse for Wenger. Arsenal have money and they've spent a fair bit of it as well. I think at least equal share is on Wenger for the failure to give up on "his players" and not invest wisely when he has spent. Arsenal might not be Manchester United rich but they've finished behind Leicester and Spurs who have far less money than Arsenal do. Arsenal are going in the wrong direction under Wenger and he's going to have to leave eventually, might as well take the risk now. You could get it wrong but you could also end up like Chelsea and get someone like Conte. I'd find it hard to believe that managers would not absolutely jump at the chance to manage Arsenal.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeEvans wrote:
I'm not saying that you don't have a point because you very well might but I feel like it's just another excuse for Wenger. Arsenal have money and they've spent a fair bit of it as well. I think at least equal share is on Wenger for the failure to give up on "his players" and not invest wisely when he has spent. Arsenal might not be Manchester United rich but they've finished behind Leicester and Spurs who have far less money than Arsenal do. Arsenal are going in the wrong direction under Wenger and he's going to have to leave eventually, might as well take the risk now. You could get it wrong but you could also end up like Chelsea and get someone like Conte. I'd find it hard to believe that managers would not absolutely jump at the chance to manage Arsenal.

What manager out there that would actually come has actually demonstrated that they could pull off a paradigm shift (like Conte did at Chelsea) and could do so on a budget that's not competitive with the clubs that he's ultimately be measured against? Only one I can think of right now is Simeone and I'm not confident he'll leave Atletico.

Leicester is a bad example. Thus far, they're looking like one hit wonders. Yes, they advanced in Champions League, but they did so largely at the expense of their league positioning and they went from Premier League champions to not qualifying for European competition in any capacity next season. They're likely to see their core raided even more than just losing Kante this past summer, and it's highly questionable that they'll be able to be nearly the side they were even this season if they lose the likes of Mahrez.

Tottenham have yet to actually be tested by the market. So this summer is going to be very telling for them. They (largely Pochettino) have also had some very fortunate finds in managing to get the likes of Alli for less than 10m, Trippier for less than 5m, and having Kane come (more-than-less) through their academy. Loyalty is cheap in football and while they've now got a new kit deal with Nike, they're still not getting NIKE money from it. We all know that loyalty in football is cheap, so it'll be truly interesting to see how loyal the likes of Alli are if/when clubs far bigger than Tottenham (e.g. Barca, Atletico, PSG, Inter, even Roma) come calling. They've got a good thing going in that I think Poch is definitely a manager that players will want to play for right now, so that gives them some definite draw, but I definitely expect them to get "Willian'd" several more times over, the same as Arsenal were with pursued transfers like Hazard, where a mega bucks club (we can basically count on Jose to employ this tactic as he's done it in the past, and is certainly not above spending to keep competitors from getting better whether or not he'll actually regularly deploy the player or not) pips them for transfer targets by simply offering wages beyond what is sustainable for the likes of Spurs.

LIS, I'm far from holding Arsene blameless. I'm just a realist. And while it may sound like an excuse, even if it is, there are such things as valid excuses. And my prior point still stands - no one man is going to come in and fulfill all the duties that Arsene has been and is currently doing at the club. Now certainly some (not that I'd expect him to come, but just using someone like an Ancelotti as an example) would hire on men to task with those duties, but I have little confidence in a BoD consisting of two Kroenkes, Gadzidis, and Keswick to pursue or hire on those individuals, because said individuals would want the kind of control to spend as they please that the Kroenkes, and certainly not Sir Chips, are going to approve because it poses too much of a threat to the stability of their ROI.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
I constantly see Arsenal "supporters" slandering the man, talking about how he "doesn't respect the fans," "puts himself before the club." And frankly I'm disgusted by it; they legitimately come off like spoiled children whose mommy told them they can't have ice cream for dinner. Arsene absolutely loves the club. And he's operating with considerably more knowledge of both the game and the way the club is run from the board's end than any of us are. It's odd how no one has ever considered that perhaps the reason he's been reluctant to walk away is because he recognizes the structure of things as they are at the club (given that not a damn member of the board outside of a very iffy argument for Gadzidis - who has been as silent as Stan - knows a lick about European football) could go to hell in a handbasket very quickly with the Board calling the shots.

His presser today was starting to become very telling and then someone went and shifted the topic of discussion at a very inopportune time. We'll see what develops, but I'm getting the genuine feeling that Arsene is not a big Kroenke supporter - and before people even bring it up, you can't have a manager in an open "battle" with with ownership without it tearing the club itself apart.


I mean this would be more convincing if Wenger wasn't the one resisting any of the structural reforms needed, like hiring a DoF. If he asked for one, he'd get it. He's the one who has consistently dismissed the idea of having any other power center at the club that can outlast Wenger. And he's going to continue to resist those changes because he knows that if the club builds up an infrastructure that makes them less reliant on Wenger, he becomes a whole lot more replaceable. If he, as it's always been said, cares about the club and the long-term future of the club, then now would be the time to start making preparations for whenever he does leave. But it's not going to happen. Because if we do, he can't run down his contract and then come back to the board saying that the club will fall apart without him. His model for Arsenal is always one in which he is irreplaceable.

I can respect everything Wenger has done while also recognizing that he's a shell of the man he once was. His actions as of late moreso reflect someone who looking out first and foremost for themselves. This shouldn't be that controversial - to say that a manager/person is acting out of self-interest - but Wenger has been built up as some saintly/otherworldly figure and so regardless of how he acts/operates people always want to ascribe some sort of selflessness and build him up into a martyr.

This season was an indisputable failure, and yet next year it'll be the same thing over again - same training sessions, same support staff, same transfer structure (with perhaps some superficial/ceremonial role created that still answers to Wenger), same midseason collapse, same everything. That's not part of some master plan to always put the club first and protect it from itself. That's not to say any of the other major figures at the club - Kroenke, Gazidis, etc. are themselves people to rally around, but whatever is rotten at the club seems to include Wenger at this point rather than being a separate issue.
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LeeEvans


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
The LBC wrote:
I constantly see Arsenal "supporters" slandering the man, talking about how he "doesn't respect the fans," "puts himself before the club." And frankly I'm disgusted by it; they legitimately come off like spoiled children whose mommy told them they can't have ice cream for dinner. Arsene absolutely loves the club. And he's operating with considerably more knowledge of both the game and the way the club is run from the board's end than any of us are. It's odd how no one has ever considered that perhaps the reason he's been reluctant to walk away is because he recognizes the structure of things as they are at the club (given that not a damn member of the board outside of a very iffy argument for Gadzidis - who has been as silent as Stan - knows a lick about European football) could go to hell in a handbasket very quickly with the Board calling the shots.

His presser today was starting to become very telling and then someone went and shifted the topic of discussion at a very inopportune time. We'll see what develops, but I'm getting the genuine feeling that Arsene is not a big Kroenke supporter - and before people even bring it up, you can't have a manager in an open "battle" with with ownership without it tearing the club itself apart.


I mean this would be more convincing if Wenger wasn't the one resisting any of the structural reforms needed, like hiring a DoF. If he asked for one, he'd get it. He's the one who has consistently dismissed the idea of having any other power center at the club that can outlast Wenger. And he's going to continue to resist those changes because he knows that if the club builds up an infrastructure that makes them less reliant on Wenger, he becomes a whole lot more replaceable. If he, as it's always been said, cares about the club and the long-term future of the club, then now would be the time to start making preparations for whenever he does leave. But it's not going to happen. Because if we do, he can't run down his contract and then come back to the board saying that the club will fall apart without him. His model for Arsenal is always one in which he is irreplaceable.

I can respect everything Wenger has done while also recognizing that he's a shell of the man he once was. His actions as of late moreso reflect someone who looking out first and foremost for themselves. This shouldn't be that controversial - to say that a manager/person is acting out of self-interest - but Wenger has been built up as some saintly/otherworldly figure and so regardless of how he acts/operates people always want to ascribe some sort of selflessness and build him up into a martyr.

This season was an indisputable failure, and yet next year it'll be the same thing over again - same training sessions, same support staff, same transfer structure (with perhaps some superficial/ceremonial role created that still answers to Wenger), same midseason collapse, same everything. That's not part of some master plan to always put the club first and protect it from itself. That's not to say any of the other major figures at the club - Kroenke, Gazidis, etc. are themselves people to rally around, but whatever is rotten at the club seems to include Wenger at this point rather than being a separate issue.
Exactly and it is abundantly clear that Wenger is not the man to turn things around. He's going to have to leave the club eventually, do it now and at least attempt to try something different.

And LBC, one man doesn't have to fill those roles all by himself. Arsene is the one who wants that responsibility, I am certain the club would be comfortable bringing in some more staff around the manager. I find the money in comparison to their rivals such a tired and [inappropriate/removed] excuse. My attempts at using Leicester is to show that clubs have performed better than Arsenal, at least once, with significantly less money. Arsenal may not be able to splash the money like United and Chelsea but they are a tremendously wealthy club who should, at least on occasion, be able to mount a title challenge that last to the last month or two of a season. You sight the bargains that Spurs have found and I think that actually underlines Wenger's failures even more. This was once his calling card but look at Walcott, Oxlade Chamerblin, Chambers, Jenkinson, Ramsey, Wilshere, etc. They haven't succeeded and yet are persisted with. I have no hatred to Wenger or Arsenal but it is abundantly clear that the club are only heading in one direction with Wenger at the helm. It's entirely possible that they struggle to replace him immediately but it's something that needs to be done.
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