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Best Secondary In The League?
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Best Secondary In The League
Denver Broncos
61%
 61%  [ 34 ]
Seattle Seahawks
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
New England Patriots
10%
 10%  [ 6 ]
Other
23%
 23%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 55

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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11935
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SilverNBlackFan wrote:
So the best thing you can say about Carr is at least he stays healthy lol OK. He hasn't been good for a while.

Tavon Young was decent but I don't believe he has the potential to be a great outside corner. He is a Nickel/match-up guy imo.

Your safeties look great. 3 out of the 4 starters in the secondary look great, but you can't be mentioned with the best units in the league with such uncertainty at the second corner spot.


Nickel corner is a starting spot, they will be on the field significantly more often than the 7th front-7 player. Tavon definitely seems to be trending to a very strong inside corner, and I don't really think that's a less important position than the second outside spot. A lot of impact players line up there.

In your words, 3 of our other starters "look great", but you are hung up on our LCB (who would get plenty of safety help opposite Jimmy) being either Carr or our unproven first round pick. That's our 5th DB. How many of these "best units in the league" have a better situation in all 5 spots?
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bmorecareful


Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 862
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
SilverNBlackFan wrote:
So the best thing you can say about Carr is at least he stays healthy lol OK. He hasn't been good for a while.

Tavon Young was decent but I don't believe he has the potential to be a great outside corner. He is a Nickel/match-up guy imo.

Your safeties look great. 3 out of the 4 starters in the secondary look great, but you can't be mentioned with the best units in the league with such uncertainty at the second corner spot.


Nickel corner is a starting spot, they will be on the field significantly more often than the 7th front-7 player. Tavon definitely seems to be trending to a very strong inside corner, and I don't really think that's a less important position than the second outside spot. A lot of impact players line up there.



In your words, 3 of our other starters "look great", but you are hung up on our LCB (who would get plenty of safety help opposite Jimmy) being either Carr or our unproven first round pick. That's our 5th DB. How many of these "best units in the league" have a better situation in all 5 spots?


My point exactly and at the same time Seattles corner opposite Sherman has proven to consistently be a product of the system as they have all struggled upon leaving Seattle.. So with a lockdown guy on one side and two high level safeties logic says u can scheme to protect the weaknesses of the other outside corner... We are talking projection here though so I'm not mad at the guy who has no benefit in our talent living up to its potential thus him not being optimistic... But on paper as a Ravens fan I think we have potential to be as good as anyone not named Denver and new England next year but we have to prove it on the field
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Kansas City? Not saying they're the best, but they have some really great pieces.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

l3lind golfer wrote:
What about Kansas City? Not saying they're the best, but they have some really great pieces.

Basically RCB is the only unsettled position. Terrance Mitchell played well last year so we'll see if he can repeat it.

Mitchell-Parker-Berry-Peters is pretty good

Combine that with Nelson-Gaines-Sorenson-Murray for nickel/dime packages.

They're the main reason we did so well against top tier QBs/passing attacks last year despite the pass rush not being up to the usual standard.
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Death, taxes, Andy Reid coming off a bye week.
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
What about Kansas City? Not saying they're the best, but they have some really great pieces.

Basically RCB is the only unsettled position. Terrance Mitchell played well last year so we'll see if he can repeat it.

Mitchell-Parker-Berry-Peters is pretty good

Combine that with Nelson-Gaines-Sorenson-Murray for nickel/dime packages.

They're the main reason we did so well against top tier QBs/passing attacks last year despite the pass rush not being up to the usual standard.


Yeah, it more or less all comes down to whether Mitchell is legit, or whether he's a Marcus Cooper repeat. Not drafting a CB seems to indicate a lot of faith from the FO and coaching staff, but we'll see. Otherwise, Nelson, Parker, Berry, and Peters all range from good to elite in their respective roles.
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KhanYouDigIt


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramsey-Bouye-Colvin

Church-Gipson


#NoFlyZone
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Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Since 2013, the Kansas City Chiefs have played 64 regular season games, and over that time, the defense has allowed an opposing team to throw for more than 250 yards in the pass-happy NFL on just 20 occasions, which is fourth-fewest in the league during that stretch.

The NFL average is 28 games.

Overall, the Chiefs have allowed just 232 yards passing per game over that time, which ranks fifth-best in the NFL.

To take these numbers a step further, the folks over at Pro Football Focus recently put out another statistic that backs up the idea of the Chiefs’ secondary being considered one of the NFL’s elite groups.

The Chiefs have been one of the toughest passing defenses in each of the past two seasons. pic.twitter.com/Xvax9lHSay

— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) May 15, 2017
They have the Chiefs’ defense ranked No. 2 (2015) and No. 3 (2016) in opponent quarterback rating over the past two years.

There’s reason to believe the success will continue considering every defensive back who played a snap for the Chiefs last year is returning this year.


Some Chiefs stats pulled from another message board
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Death, taxes, Andy Reid coming off a bye week.
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BroncoSojia


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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Location: Mississippi
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KhanYouDigIt wrote:
Ramsey-Bouye-Colvin

Church-Gipson


#NoFlyZone


Yeah, your teams twitter account tried to troll us with that hashtag and got checked. Laughing
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17890
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green Bay obviously.
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Yfz01


Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 9274
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

w4rrior723 wrote:
Even though the Giants were 23rd in ypg last year, they were 6th in yards per passing play - a much better indication of pass defense success.

So in other words... yeah, the Giants ARE a clear cut #2 Laughing


How does being 6th in yards per passing play make them the clear cut number 2?

Confused
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renndawg37


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
w4rrior723 wrote:
Even though the Giants were 23rd in ypg last year, they were 6th in yards per passing play - a much better indication of pass defense success.

So in other words... yeah, the Giants ARE a clear cut #2 Laughing


How does being 6th in yards per passing play make them the clear cut number 2?

Confused


Laughing Laughing
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JBURGE25


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
Quote:
Since 2013, the Kansas City Chiefs have played 64 regular season games, and over that time, the defense has allowed an opposing team to throw for more than 250 yards in the pass-happy NFL on just 20 occasions, which is fourth-fewest in the league during that stretch.

The NFL average is 28 games.

Overall, the Chiefs have allowed just 232 yards passing per game over that time, which ranks fifth-best in the NFL.

To take these numbers a step further, the folks over at Pro Football Focus recently put out another statistic that backs up the idea of the Chiefs’ secondary being considered one of the NFL’s elite groups.

The Chiefs have been one of the toughest passing defenses in each of the past two seasons. pic.twitter.com/Xvax9lHSay

— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) May 15, 2017
They have the Chiefs’ defense ranked No. 2 (2015) and No. 3 (2016) in opponent quarterback rating over the past two years.

There’s reason to believe the success will continue considering every defensive back who played a snap for the Chiefs last year is returning this year.


Some Chiefs stats pulled from another message board
Not knocking the secondary but let's not pretend that the pass rush hasn't played a huge factor
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JBURGE25 wrote:
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 15261
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBURGE25 wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
Quote:
Since 2013, the Kansas City Chiefs have played 64 regular season games, and over that time, the defense has allowed an opposing team to throw for more than 250 yards in the pass-happy NFL on just 20 occasions, which is fourth-fewest in the league during that stretch.

The NFL average is 28 games.

Overall, the Chiefs have allowed just 232 yards passing per game over that time, which ranks fifth-best in the NFL.

To take these numbers a step further, the folks over at Pro Football Focus recently put out another statistic that backs up the idea of the Chiefs’ secondary being considered one of the NFL’s elite groups.

The Chiefs have been one of the toughest passing defenses in each of the past two seasons. pic.twitter.com/Xvax9lHSay

— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) May 15, 2017
They have the Chiefs’ defense ranked No. 2 (2015) and No. 3 (2016) in opponent quarterback rating over the past two years.

There’s reason to believe the success will continue considering every defensive back who played a snap for the Chiefs last year is returning this year.


Some Chiefs stats pulled from another message board
Not knocking the secondary but let's not pretend that the pass rush hasn't played a huge factor


Last year I would say our secondary out-performed our pass rush by a decent margin, actually. Hali and Poe have steadily contributed less and less as as pass rushers, and Bailey, Howard, and Houston all missed time. So last year, our pass defense was largely carried by good coverage.

In prior years, you are correct, though. 2013 - 2015 our pass rush was a bigger influence in our pass defense than our coverage was.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
Quote:
Since 2013, the Kansas City Chiefs have played 64 regular season games, and over that time, the defense has allowed an opposing team to throw for more than 250 yards in the pass-happy NFL on just 20 occasions, which is fourth-fewest in the league during that stretch.

The NFL average is 28 games.

Overall, the Chiefs have allowed just 232 yards passing per game over that time, which ranks fifth-best in the NFL.

To take these numbers a step further, the folks over at Pro Football Focus recently put out another statistic that backs up the idea of the Chiefs’ secondary being considered one of the NFL’s elite groups.

The Chiefs have been one of the toughest passing defenses in each of the past two seasons. pic.twitter.com/Xvax9lHSay

— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) May 15, 2017
They have the Chiefs’ defense ranked No. 2 (2015) and No. 3 (2016) in opponent quarterback rating over the past two years.

There’s reason to believe the success will continue considering every defensive back who played a snap for the Chiefs last year is returning this year.


Some Chiefs stats pulled from another message board
Not knocking the secondary but let's not pretend that the pass rush hasn't played a huge factor


Last year I would say our secondary out-performed our pass rush by a decent margin, actually. Hali and Poe have steadily contributed less and less as as pass rushers, and Bailey, Howard, and Houston all missed time. So last year, our pass defense was largely carried by good coverage.

In prior years, you are correct, though. 2013 - 2015 our pass rush was a bigger influence in our pass defense than our coverage was.
yeah the pass rush wasn't great last year at all. It was basically Dee Ford and Chris Jones holding down the fort there.
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Death, taxes, Andy Reid coming off a bye week.
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w4rrior723


Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 5505
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
w4rrior723 wrote:
Even though the Giants were 23rd in ypg last year, they were 6th in yards per passing play - a much better indication of pass defense success.

So in other words... yeah, the Giants ARE a clear cut #2 Laughing


How does being 6th in yards per passing play make them the clear cut number 2?

Confused


Because even though yards per passing play is far more indicative of how good a pass defense is than bulk numbers, it's still just one stat. No single stat decides it. Otherwise, there would be no need for this thread since anyone can just list of 1-32 from the stat sheet without argument. There are obviously other factors as well. The fact that they were 6th in yards per passing play while being on the field more than almost every other secondary is incredibly impressive. Is it a preposterous assumption to make that their efficiency would be even BETTER if they didn't have to spend so much time on the field? They also had the worst pass-rush in the league for the first third of the season, and developed into an average pass-rush by seasons end. The Broncos secondary obviously benefits from an extremely talented and productive front 7. Also, how many other teams had 3 defensive backs named All-Pro last year? Whether you fully agree with the All-Pro selections or not, the fact that they even had 3 players with good enough years to be in the mix for All-Pro honors speaks volumes to how good the secondary was. The Giants have as good of an argument as anyone for best secondary in the league.
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