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elliot878
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 4014
Location: Connecticut
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Number 1 human being, Myron Rolle is reportedly working out like crazy at Oxford to keep his speed and agility, and is running in the 4.4 range. He plans to work out full time starting in December, participate in the senior bowl, and should be invited to the combine.
I can't think of a better guy for Dawkins to work with for a year or two, and then hand the reins over to at strong safety than Myron Rolle.
If he's there in the 4th-6th round range i want him, i wouldn't even be mad if we used a 3rd on him, if defensive end and center had already been addressed.
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lomaxgr
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 14577
Location: Manchester, England
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Darcel McBath and David Bruton will be groomed to be our Safeties of the future. Unless Rolle is a ST stud, I don't see him being a Bronco.
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elliot878
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 4014
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| lomaxgr wrote: | | Darcel McBath and David Bruton will be groomed to be our Safeties of the future. Unless Rolle is a ST stud, I don't see him being a Bronco. |
im not sure Brutons a starter, but he is the ST stud you speak of.
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germ-x
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3097
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| elliot878 wrote: | | lomaxgr wrote: | | Darcel McBath and David Bruton will be groomed to be our Safeties of the future. Unless Rolle is a ST stud, I don't see him being a Bronco. |
im not sure Brutons a starter, but he is the ST stud you speak of. |
I agree. I like Bruton a lot, but i am not 100% sure he was selected with the thought of him taking over as a starter. I think McDaniels saw his special teams ability and that had a lot to do with the pick, then the fact that he could serve as a servicable back up for years.
I think if there is a S high on Denver's board that is ability in rounds 1-3 there is a possibliity that Denver takes one. |
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lomaxgr
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 14577
Location: Manchester, England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Bruton really impressed me during the pre-season with his play on Defense. I think he could definitely develop into a starter, but I do understand what you are saying. I want to say its a deep Safety class, but it seems I have said that every year for the last 2 years and then when it rolls around, it ends up being thin 
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germ-x
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3097
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| lomaxgr wrote: | | Bruton really impressed me during the pre-season with his play on Defense. I think he could definitely develop into a starter, but I do understand what you are saying. I want to say its a deep Safety class, but it seems I have said that every year for the last 2 years and then when it rolls around, it ends up being thin |
I like the group of safeties in this years class as well. I really like Darrell Stuckey from Kansas and he is probably a 2nd-3rd round pick. Nate Allen is also a very good safety prospect.
I think if Berry and Earl Thomas declare along with a few other juniors it will be a very deep class. |
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paul-mac
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 1158
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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straight out of the left-field... LaGarette Blount RB oregon
I want us to draft a moreno compliment and because of the incident at boise state he will be available in the low rounds.
at 6 foot 2, 240lb he sorts our short yardage problem.
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lomaxgr
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 14577
Location: Manchester, England
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | at 6 foot 2, 240lb he sorts our short yardage problem. |
Our short yardage problem has next to nothing to do with our RB's. I bet there are few players in the league who run as hard as Peyton Hillis, but he struggled because our OL isn't built for power running in short yardage situations, and it baffles me why McDaniels continues to call these plays in these scenarios.
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Cut-2-Marsh
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 2132
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| lomaxgr wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | at 6 foot 2, 240lb he sorts our short yardage problem. |
Our short yardage problem has next to nothing to do with our RB's. I bet there are few players in the league who run as hard as Peyton Hillis, but he struggled because our OL isn't built for power running in short yardage situations, and it baffles me why McDaniels continues to call these plays in these scenarios. |
I think it is insane that we are still trying to power it in on these short yardage situations.
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AntiSuperstar
Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 1349
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| lomaxgr wrote: | | Our short yardage problem has next to nothing to do with our RB's. I bet there are few players in the league who run as hard as Peyton Hillis, but he struggled because our OL isn't built for power running in short yardage situations, and it baffles me why McDaniels continues to call these plays in these scenarios. |
While I agree the backs are not really the problem, I wouldn't go quite as far. While I agree with the sentiment that Hillis is good in short yardage situations, I don't think he's great in them because he is a bit limited. He doesn't have the balance of a true Running Back. So I wouldn't disagree with the idea that a great short yardage back couldn't help the offense(I can't comment on the specific player).
And let me express my strong disagreement with the idea that the short yardage problems are due to our Offensive Line. Last year we basically ran a power running game after Torain went down with the injury, with Hillis, and we did fine in short yardage situations. During that period(the Cleveland game to the 2nd Kansas City game), we were 24/33 when we ran on plays that had 4 yards or less to go(not counting Wide Receiver reverse plays). But that stat is actually misleading because 4 or 5 of those plays were either 2nd or 3rd downs where we ran successfully for the 1st down on the subsequent play. We had something like only 4 short yardage running failures during that period. Hillis' stats specifically were 13/16 successful runs. And on possessions when we ran inside the 20(regardless of yardage) we scored a touchdown every single time.
Furthermore, Ryan Clady is over 320 pounds, and both Russ Hochstein and Casey Wiegmann are veterans from non-zone blocking running teams. That reasoning just doesn't make sense. We have Hillis from last year and our backs of this year as a whole are a lot stronger than last year's(given the amount of times we ran with Bell, Pope, Hall, and Young). The reason we aren't running well on short yardage situations is do to poor play design, poor usage of players, the lack of counterbalances(tosses, play action, any non-predictable 3rd down passing really) and the style of the offense in those situations. It isn't because our lineman are incapable. If you look at lines across the league most aren't these huge power lines. Pretty much only Dallas, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Miami, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia fit the bill. A team doesn't need huge offensive lines to run it in short yardage situations. |
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germ-x
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3097
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| AntiSuperstar wrote: | | lomaxgr wrote: | | Our short yardage problem has next to nothing to do with our RB's. I bet there are few players in the league who run as hard as Peyton Hillis, but he struggled because our OL isn't built for power running in short yardage situations, and it baffles me why McDaniels continues to call these plays in these scenarios. |
While I agree the backs are not really the problem, I wouldn't go quite as far. While I agree with the sentiment that Hillis is good in short yardage situations, I don't think he's great in them because he is a bit limited. He doesn't have the balance of a true Running Back. So I wouldn't disagree with the idea that a great short yardage back couldn't help the offense(I can't comment on the specific player).
And let me express my strong disagreement with the idea that the short yardage problems are due to our Offensive Line. Last year we basically ran a power running game after Torain went down with the injury, with Hillis, and we did fine in short yardage situations. During that period(the Cleveland game to the 2nd Kansas City game), we were 24/33 when we ran on plays that had 4 yards or less to go(not counting Wide Receiver reverse plays). But that stat is actually misleading because 4 or 5 of those plays were either 2nd or 3rd downs where we ran successfully for the 1st down on the subsequent play. We had something like only 4 short yardage running failures during that period. Hillis' stats specifically were 13/16 successful runs. And on possessions when we ran inside the 20(regardless of yardage) we scored a touchdown every single time.
Furthermore, Ryan Clady is over 320 pounds, and both Russ Hochstein and Casey Wiegmann are veterans from non-zone blocking running teams. That reasoning just doesn't make sense. We have Hillis from last year and our backs of this year as a whole are a lot stronger than last year's(given the amount of times we ran with Bell, Pope, Hall, and Young). The reason we aren't running well on short yardage situations is do to poor play design, poor usage of players, the lack of counterbalances(tosses, play action, any non-predictable 3rd down passing really) and the style of the offense in those situations. It isn't because our lineman are incapable. If you look at lines across the league most aren't these huge power lines. Pretty much only Dallas, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Miami, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia fit the bill. A team doesn't need huge offensive lines to run it in short yardage situations. |
Where did anyone ever say they needed to be huge?
I would agree that part of the problem is Denver's failure to use counter balances, that could solve some of the problem.
Also, i don't recall, but when Torain went down and Hillis took over, did Denver switch from the ZBS to the MBS or any other kind of run blocking scheme? I could be wrong, but i highly doubt it.
The change from ZBS to MBS, with an interior offensive line that is accustomed to the ZBS and the ZBS fits to their strengths could be the biggest problem. Which is why i think Denver is going to make adjustments in the offseason to bring in interior lineman that fit this scheme better. |
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Pistol_Monkey
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5915
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I want Taylor Mays in the 1st round. The Bares should be just bad enough so where we can get him, and he'll be the perfect replacement for Dawkins. He'd also be BPA. But I know it won't happen because of Darcel McBath (who I am leery of) and Hill at the other spot.
Otherwise, a good 3-4 DE would be the way to go. I hear good things about Arthur Jones. Maybe Carlos Dunlap would make a good 3-4 DE and would be there at our pick.
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germ-x
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3097
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Pistol_Monkey wrote: | I want Taylor Mays in the 1st round. The Bares should be just bad enough so where we can get him, and he'll be the perfect replacement for Dawkins. He'd also be BPA. But I know it won't happen because of Darcel McBath (who I am leery of) and Hill at the other spot.
Otherwise, a good 3-4 DE would be the way to go. I hear good things about Arthur Jones. Maybe Carlos Dunlap would make a good 3-4 DE and would be there at our pick. |
See i am leery of Taylor Mays. I really think he is one of the most overrated prospects heading into the draft. He has great measurables, but i think his athleticism makes up for his lack of instincts and play recognition.
I like Arthur Jones though and would not mind at all if Denver selected him. |
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lomaxgr
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 14577
Location: Manchester, England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| AntiSuperstar wrote: | | And let me express my strong disagreement with the idea that the short yardage problems are due to our Offensive Line. Last year we basically ran a power running game after Torain went down with the injury, with Hillis, and we did fine in short yardage situations. During that period(the Cleveland game to the 2nd Kansas City game), we were 24/33 when we ran on plays that had 4 yards or less to go(not counting Wide Receiver reverse plays). But that stat is actually misleading because 4 or 5 of those plays were either 2nd or 3rd downs where we ran successfully for the 1st down on the subsequent play. We had something like only 4 short yardage running failures during that period. Hillis' stats specifically were 13/16 successful runs. And on possessions when we ran inside the 20(regardless of yardage) we scored a touchdown every single time. |
Well, I totally disagree with the notion that we ran a power running game late last year that is remotely similar to what Josh is trying to bring in. We ran predominantly Zone blocking plays even when Peyton was in there, and that included a variety of toss, sweeps etc. They were nothing like the man on man power blocking runs Josh is running on 3rd and short.
| AntiSuperstar wrote: | | Furthermore, Ryan Clady is over 320 pounds, and both Russ Hochstein and Casey Wiegmann are veterans from non-zone blocking running teams. That reasoning just doesn't make sense. |
Hochstein doesn't play in the starting interior line though, does he? Clady is 320, yes. But are you trying to say that you believe Casey Wiegmann, Ben Hamilton and Ryan Harris are built for man on man power blocking in 3rd and short situations? They aren't, and that's a fact. Harris isn't strong enough at the POA for it, Wiegmann didn't play in a traditional power blocking scheme in all those years for the Chiefs and Hamilton well - I am sure you have seen for yourself how much he is getting owned in the run game full stop. Hell, I personally don't think Kuper is much of a mauling Guard but I may be alone in that thought.
| AntiSuperstar wrote: | | We have Hillis from last year and our backs of this year as a whole are a lot stronger than last year's(given the amount of times we ran with Bell, Pope, Hall, and Young). The reason we aren't running well on short yardage situations is do to poor play design, poor usage of players, the lack of counterbalances(tosses, play action, any non-predictable 3rd down passing really) and the style of the offense in those situations. It isn't because our lineman are incapable. If you look at lines across the league most aren't these huge power lines. Pretty much only Dallas, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Miami, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia fit the bill. A team doesn't need huge offensive lines to run it in short yardage situations. |
I am not sure why you mentioned last years RB's - as I said before, I don't actually think our woes in short yardage situations have much to do with our RB's.
I certainly agree the playcalling leaves a lot to be desired. I would love to see counterbalance plays; the sort Shanahan lived for. I don't think our OL is incapable of these at all, and I never said they were. I do however think our Line isn't suited to man on man power blocking in obvious rushing situations. I am not even talking about size of the OL - I am talking about their strength at the POA.
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Winder23
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2488
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| lomaxgr wrote: | | AntiSuperstar wrote: | | And let me express my strong disagreement with the idea that the short yardage problems are due to our Offensive Line. Last year we basically ran a power running game after Torain went down with the injury, with Hillis, and we did fine in short yardage situations. During that period(the Cleveland game to the 2nd Kansas City game), we were 24/33 when we ran on plays that had 4 yards or less to go(not counting Wide Receiver reverse plays). But that stat is actually misleading because 4 or 5 of those plays were either 2nd or 3rd downs where we ran successfully for the 1st down on the subsequent play. We had something like only 4 short yardage running failures during that period. Hillis' stats specifically were 13/16 successful runs. And on possessions when we ran inside the 20(regardless of yardage) we scored a touchdown every single time. |
Well, I totally disagree with the notion that we ran a power running game late last year that is remotely similar to what Josh is trying to bring in. We ran predominantly Zone blocking plays even when Peyton was in there, and that included a variety of toss, sweeps etc. They were nothing like the man on man power blocking runs Josh is running on 3rd and short.
| AntiSuperstar wrote: | | Furthermore, Ryan Clady is over 320 pounds, and both Russ Hochstein and Casey Wiegmann are veterans from non-zone blocking running teams. That reasoning just doesn't make sense. |
Hochstein doesn't play in the starting interior line though, does he? Clady is 320, yes. But are you trying to say that you believe Casey Wiegmann, Ben Hamilton and Ryan Harris are built for man on man power blocking in 3rd and short situations? They aren't, and that's a fact. Harris isn't strong enough at the POA for it, Wiegmann didn't play in a traditional power blocking scheme in all those years for the Chiefs and Hamilton well - I am sure you have seen for yourself how much he is getting owned in the run game full stop. Hell, I personally don't think Kuper is much of a mauling Guard but I may be alone in that thought.
| AntiSuperstar wrote: | | We have Hillis from last year and our backs of this year as a whole are a lot stronger than last year's(given the amount of times we ran with Bell, Pope, Hall, and Young). The reason we aren't running well on short yardage situations is do to poor play design, poor usage of players, the lack of counterbalances(tosses, play action, any non-predictable 3rd down passing really) and the style of the offense in those situations. It isn't because our lineman are incapable. If you look at lines across the league most aren't these huge power lines. Pretty much only Dallas, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Miami, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia fit the bill. A team doesn't need huge offensive lines to run it in short yardage situations. |
I am not sure why you mentioned last years RB's - as I said before, I don't actually think our woes in short yardage situations have much to do with our RB's.
I certainly agree the playcalling leaves a lot to be desired. I would love to see counterbalance plays; the sort Shanahan lived for. I don't think our OL is incapable of these at all, and I never said they were. I do however think our Line isn't suited to man on man power blocking in obvious rushing situations. I am not even talking about size of the OL - I am talking about their strength at the POA. |
Harris is one of our better run blockers. He plays with good power for his size. The weakness in our scheme is Hamilton and Wiggy. They simply don't have the size and are routinely beat by bigger more powerful players. While I enjoyed some of the success of the zone scheme, there are times when the smaller line was simply outmanned and we suffered because of it. |
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