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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Palm Bay, FL
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: |
That just shows that the Seahawks front office is dumb and the Patriots run a great organization. Giving up a 1st round pick for a guy who never had over 1,000 yards was just stupid. |
You always come up with SOME excuse to bring Brady down, huh?
I've got a newsflash for you, dumb FOs do NOT, categorically, DO NOT build teams that go to the playoffs 5 years in a row, let alone win their conference.
You really need to take out that Haterade IV drip and give credit where it's due.[/quote]
| DontTazeMeBro wrote: |
There was an argument to be made for him being the second best QB at the time though.
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Not good enough? I never said Brady wasn't a good QB, even though he plays in an offense that is the NFL's answer to Texas Tech.
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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No it's not good enough. Calling him anything less than equal to Manning is absurd. There's nothing one has accomplished that the other hasn't.
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NoHypeNeeded
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 4014
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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DeSean Jacksons' production is a result of his opponents being slower than he is, and unable to catch him. 
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: | | No it's not good enough. Calling him anything less than equal to Manning is absurd. There's nothing one has accomplished that the other hasn't. |
Did Brady win 2 MVPs today? Because when I woke up he wasn't a 3 time MVP.
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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Location: Running laps on a Möbius strip
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | No it's not good enough. Calling him anything less than equal to Manning is absurd. There's nothing one has accomplished that the other hasn't. |
Did Brady win 2 MVPs today? Because when I woke up he wasn't a 3 time MVP. |
No... did Manning win 2 Super Bowls?
The MVP award is pretty meaningless, anyway. They just give it to the guy with the best numbers nowadays. When a guy like Shaun Alexander can win it in 2005 and disappear from the face of the earth shortly thereafter, and his team can continue winning the division for the following 2 years, you know exactly how much it's worth in the grand scheme of things.
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: Palm Bay, FL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | No it's not good enough. Calling him anything less than equal to Manning is absurd. There's nothing one has accomplished that the other hasn't. |
Did Brady win 2 MVPs today? Because when I woke up he wasn't a 3 time MVP. |
No... did Manning win 2 Super Bowls?
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Did Brady lead the greatest comeback in Championship Game history?
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NextBigThing
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 228
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Manning has 1 real playoff comeback, nobody needs to point out Bradys playoff play compared to Mannings, because they're not comparable. Taze bringing that is borderline suicide in this debate.
With all due respect to Brady, MVP is a much larger reflection of ones individual play than Super Bowl trophies are. By and large, Tom Bradys numbers never really matched Peyton Manning's until Brady got Randy Moss...than again, Peyton always had Marvin Harrison.
Its the greatest paradox in NFL history: who is better-Brady or Manning? There are answers for every argument for both of them.
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| NextBigThing wrote: | Well, with all due respect to Brady, MVP is a much larger reflection of ones individual play than Super Bowl trophies are.
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Of course. But except in obvious cases like 2004 and 2007, where there's a clear-cut winner, they always just give it to the guy with the prettiest numbers, which doesn't necessarily reflect his value to the team.
Look at that 2005 season.
You could make a stronger case for both Brady and Tiki Barber that year than for Alexander. Especially since Brady led a team to a division title that was devastated by injury, with no running game and a 25-ranked defense. While Barber led the league in yards from scrimmage and carried a team that had a struggling 2nd year QB and a mediocre defense to the postseason.
And yet Alexander won it.
Why? 27 TDs.
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NextBigThing
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I dont disagree, but his point was Brady never had the real absurd #'s that you mentioned that win someone the MVP until he had Moss. Peyton did have those #'s, but he had equally talented receivers the whole time, while Brady didn't until 2007, when he put up the same #s as Manning.
Basically...they're about equal as it gets.
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Alexander also had 1,880 yards, 9th most in NFL history, on a 13-3 team. I don't think it's ridiculous that he won it.
Tiki Barber had a strong case coming close to 2,400 yards from scrimmage.
Having Harrison and Wayne is not the same as having Randy Moss. Not even close.
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: |
Having Harrison and Wayne is not the same as having Randy Moss. Not even close. |
Marvin Harrison is the best route-runner in NFL history not named Jerry Rice. Did you SEE how open he would routinely get when he was in his prime?
Throwing to Marvin Harrison was, more often than not, the same as throwing into a huge gap in a zone defense. The guy was THAT quick.
As for Reggie Wayne... are you suggesting he's not as good as Wes Welker?
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: Palm Bay, FL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: |
Having Harrison and Wayne is not the same as having Randy Moss. Not even close. |
Marvin Harrison is the best route-runner in NFL history not named Jerry Rice. Did you SEE how open he would routinely get when he was in his prime?
Throwing to Marvin Harrison was, more often than not, the same as throwing into a huge gap in a zone defense. The guy was THAT quick.
As for Reggie Wayne... are you suggesting he's not as good as Wes Welker? |
I'm suggesting Randy Moss alone is better.
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Nuke
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well, this thread started well anyway 
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The Third Rider
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 5753
Location: Running up the score on your favorite team
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | Alexander also had 1,880 yards, 9th most in NFL history, on a 13-3 team. I don't think it's ridiculous that he won it.
Tiki Barber had a strong case coming close to 2,400 yards from scrimmage.
Having Harrison and Wayne is not the same as having Randy Moss. Not even close. |
Individually no they are not better than Moss but luckily for Manning he happened to have both Wayne and Harrison which both have been top 10 WRs. Is harder on defenses to focus on 2 elite WRs than just 1.
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Meeker
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 4519
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Football Giant wrote: | | It doesn't add up, given that Tom turned a wide array of nobodies into stars. |
Who did Tom Brady turn into a star. Deion Branch? |
Fact: The Pats received a 1st round draft pick in exchange for Branch
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That just shows that the Seahawks front office(same one that gave Burleson $7 million a year) is dumb and the Patriots run a great organization. Giving up a 1st round pick for a guy who never had over 1,000 yards was just stupid.
Off topic but since we are talking about Deion Branch, Rodney Harrison not winning Super Bowl MVP was a joke. And I hate Harrison. |
Sorry, I just had to take a second to lol.
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