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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 3402
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 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| H2ThaIzzo wrote: | San Francisco isn't going to give up both their first round picks and a second next year to move up to #2.
Instead of us wasting another top pick on a QB, why don't we look around the league and see who can be acquired instead? Why don't we see what it would take to get Kevin Kolb from Philly instead of spending our early pick on a QB? Big arm, accurate arm, makes some poor decisions, but he has only played a limited amount of time so far in the pros. |
I don't want someone else's cast off. If you want a QB you draft a QB the FAs are junk and I don't think there is a QB worth acquiring that would be available. |
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H2ThaIzzo
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 653
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: | | H2ThaIzzo wrote: | San Francisco isn't going to give up both their first round picks and a second next year to move up to #2.
Instead of us wasting another top pick on a QB, why don't we look around the league and see who can be acquired instead? Why don't we see what it would take to get Kevin Kolb from Philly instead of spending our early pick on a QB? Big arm, accurate arm, makes some poor decisions, but he has only played a limited amount of time so far in the pros. |
I don't want someone else's cast off. If you want a QB you draft a QB the FAs are junk and I don't think there is a QB worth acquiring that would be available. |
Well I don't think there is a QB in this draft worth wasting our first round pick on. You seem to be quite adamant on drafting another QB in the first, not building around him, thus ruining his career. Your idea defines insanity perfectly. I would rather start Quinn all of next season, gain draft picks by various trades, or just use our current picks to build AROUND him, and see what potential, if any he has, than to draft another QB in the hopes of turning them into a franchise QB.
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2007-QB
2008-none
2009-C
2010-Anything but another QB |
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| H2ThaIzzo wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: | | H2ThaIzzo wrote: | San Francisco isn't going to give up both their first round picks and a second next year to move up to #2.
Instead of us wasting another top pick on a QB, why don't we look around the league and see who can be acquired instead? Why don't we see what it would take to get Kevin Kolb from Philly instead of spending our early pick on a QB? Big arm, accurate arm, makes some poor decisions, but he has only played a limited amount of time so far in the pros. |
I don't want someone else's cast off. If you want a QB you draft a QB the FAs are junk and I don't think there is a QB worth acquiring that would be available. |
Well I don't think there is a QB in this draft worth wasting our first round pick on. You seem to be quite adamant on drafting another QB in the first, not building around him, thus ruining his career. Your idea defines insanity perfectly. I would rather start Quinn all of next season, gain draft picks by various trades, or just use our current picks to build AROUND him, and see what potential, if any he has, than to draft another QB in the hopes of turning them into a franchise QB. |
How is that not building around the QB? The QB is the most important position on the field and without one your not going to do anything. There are about 4 QBs that can turn into Franchise QBs (if they all declare) in this draft. (Clausen, Tebow, Locker, Bradford). Every one of them is worth a first round pick.
We already have a LT and a C on the oline. In FA we get a TE and a LG. Add some more pieces in Dwyer at RB and a third round slot receiver and another guard.
So how is this not building an offense? Again who is our QB next year? I don't think Quinn will be in Cleveland. He will want a trade and the new coach is going to want to bring in his guys.
So from the "core" players that would give us this (between 2 drafts)
3 WRs
LT
C
QB
RB
OG
How is that not building? Again if you have the opportunity to take a QB you do and don't ask questions. I am sick and tired of saying we are going to ruin another QB by taking a QB in the first round. Sorry we have weapons on offense that aren't being utilized and we have 11 draft picks to help make them work.
Just because everyone thinks that the defense is the safe route to go doesn't mean it is right. We don't need safe picks we need Home Runs. It is basically go big or go home. So yes adding defense to this team (that has nothing at QB) is a big mistake.
We will wear down that defensive rookie until they "quit" when the offense cannot put up more than 6 points a game. I would agree about the QB situation if we were putting up 15-20 points a game but we aren't even doing that. Bottom line is QB is the most important position on the field and by extension our biggest need. PERIOD. |
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WimbleyROY
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1449
Location: Lakewood, Oh
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: | | H2ThaIzzo wrote: | San Francisco isn't going to give up both their first round picks and a second next year to move up to #2.
Instead of us wasting another top pick on a QB, why don't we look around the league and see who can be acquired instead? Why don't we see what it would take to get Kevin Kolb from Philly instead of spending our early pick on a QB? Big arm, accurate arm, makes some poor decisions, but he has only played a limited amount of time so far in the pros. |
I don't want someone else's cast off. If you want a QB you draft a QB the FAs are junk and I don't think there is a QB worth acquiring that would be available. |
not necessarily. I'm sure brett favre, matt schaub, kyle orton, kurt warner, and drew brees would disagree.
i would have loved to take any of them over any quarterback we have had since 2010.
but, to your point, the majority of the top quarterbacks were taken by the team they play for. that said, quarterbacks are constantly taken in the first round and more than half of those become busts. you can get a good quarterback anywhere, really, you just need a team around them.
we need a quarterback desperately, but that could be a stopgap quarterback. Personally, I would finish off our line, greatly improve our running game, get a tight end, then worry about the qb. Why just toss a qb in there next season with little to no talent around them? did we learn nothing from the tim couch experiment?
also see teams with running games that greatly help their qb/team: vikings, ravens, bengals , saints
teams with good quarterbacks who have struggled with sub par to poor running games: Packers, Bears, Chargers (at least as of now), Steelers (not that I think rothlesburger is that good, but it is a top 10-12 qb. and yes, they were struggling because of their running game, though it appears to be improving).
maybe it's just my philosophy that the run opens up the pass. i dunno.
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“You can learn a line from a win and a book from a defeat.” - Paul Brown. The Browns now have more books than the Library of Congress. |
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flightno23
Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Concerns:
-DA will not be happy or function as a backup, especially to a rookie
-Dwyer has had injury problems and doesn't play in a traditional pro offense
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H2ThaIzzo
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 653
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: | | H2ThaIzzo wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: | | H2ThaIzzo wrote: | San Francisco isn't going to give up both their first round picks and a second next year to move up to #2.
Instead of us wasting another top pick on a QB, why don't we look around the league and see who can be acquired instead? Why don't we see what it would take to get Kevin Kolb from Philly instead of spending our early pick on a QB? Big arm, accurate arm, makes some poor decisions, but he has only played a limited amount of time so far in the pros. |
I don't want someone else's cast off. If you want a QB you draft a QB the FAs are junk and I don't think there is a QB worth acquiring that would be available. |
Well I don't think there is a QB in this draft worth wasting our first round pick on. You seem to be quite adamant on drafting another QB in the first, not building around him, thus ruining his career. Your idea defines insanity perfectly. I would rather start Quinn all of next season, gain draft picks by various trades, or just use our current picks to build AROUND him, and see what potential, if any he has, than to draft another QB in the hopes of turning them into a franchise QB. |
How is that not building around the QB? The QB is the most important position on the field and without one your not going to do anything. There are about 4 QBs that can turn into Franchise QBs (if they all declare) in this draft. (Clausen, Tebow, Locker, Bradford). Every one of them is worth a first round pick.
-Clausen has had one great season, that being this season. Tebow is the only QB I want out of this group, and he still has major flaws to correct. He is a mental leader, a gamer, the type of guy I would want leading my team, but isn't worth a top 5 pick. Locker is a project, makes as many bad passes as good ones. Again, not worth a top 5 pick. Bradford is a system QB, just like the previous Oklahoma QB's, just like Tony Pike is at Cincinnati. Not a solid arm, now surrounded by injury concerns. None of these options are worth our pick to me. Brady Quinn on current contract with a complete offensive scheme/line/players>>>>>>> top 5 project QB.
We already have a LT and a C on the oline. In FA we get a TE and a LG. Add some more pieces in Dwyer at RB and a third round slot receiver and another guard.
-I don't mind Dwyer, but I am not insanely high on him either. Didn't we try the whole "FA we get a TE and G" thing this season? How did that turn out? I love Tony Scheffler, think its possible to get him, but there will be a lot of bidders out there for a TE that can block, and has his pass catching abilities. This years draft is deep at tackle and the first 4 rounds are pretty deep at guard as well. I think Iupati, Johnson, Pietrus, Jerry, Render, Hudson are all better guards than what will be available in free agency.
So how is this not building an offense? Again who is our QB next year? I don't think Quinn will be in Cleveland. He will want a trade and the new coach is going to want to bring in his guys.
-You're assuming we have a new coach, and that the new coach doesn't like Brady Quinn too much. I am not high on Quinn at ALL, but I would rather play him than pay a top 5 QB a huge contract to not win games for two more seasons.
So from the "core" players that would give us this (between 2 drafts)
3 WRs
LT
C
QB
RB
OG
How is that not building? Again if you have the opportunity to take a QB you do and don't ask questions. I am sick and tired of saying we are going to ruin another QB by taking a QB in the first round. Sorry we have weapons on offense that aren't being utilized and we have 11 draft picks to help make them work.
-So what you're saying is that we have weapons, don't use them correctly, and instead of using our 11 draft picks to highlight those weapons, and say make things a little easier on Quinn, who happens to be a very cheap option going into next year at QB, you instead draft a QB with one solid season under his belt, and no big time wins in his career to lead the team? Tebow is the only QB you listed with any credibility towards the hype, and he isn't worth a top 5 pick right now. They are all projects. Bradford has flaws, and a bum shoulder, Locker is a project, our owner already said he doesn't want to wait to win, we aren't drafting a project QB that high. Clausen looks solid, but so did Quinn coming into the league, maybe we should take our chances on him playing better with better play calling and a complete line instead of throwing him into the trash?
Just because everyone thinks that the defense is the safe route to go doesn't mean it is right. We don't need safe picks we need Home Runs. It is basically go big or go home. So yes adding defense to this team (that has nothing at QB) is a big mistake.
-Thats your opinion, which I respectfully disagree with. You're completely confident that we can use free agency to get a guard and a tight end, two positions we went after in free agency this year, and completely bombed, yet you're willing to reach your greedy hand back into the cookie jar for another high pick QB who has proven nothing other than he can get the football to playmaker WR's just enough times to lose big games.
We will wear down that defensive rookie until they "quit" when the offense cannot put up more than 6 points a game. I would agree about the QB situation if we were putting up 15-20 points a game but we aren't even doing that. Bottom line is QB is the most important position on the field and by extension our biggest need. PERIOD. |
-Again, I disagree completely. You already admitted that we don't use our players properly, and that there are two holes to fill on the offensive line, so based on those assessments, I'm not sure how you can rate our current QB's and expect a top 5 draft pick rookie QB to come and contribute points right away. The Detroit Lions went rookie QB #1 last season, and are averaging 16 points per game, with less than 200 through the air per game. Main stat line is that they have still only managed to win one football game this season. Oakland did the same thing a few draft ago, and they are right down with us, last in the league in passing offense with a high draft pick QB busting. You're trying to draft like the Ravens and Falcons did, and we aren't in the same position as they are. Atlanta went and got a playmaking DE. They drafted a solid LB thats the defensive leader of that team. They got the best free agent RB available, who has carried that team all over the field, drafted a LT, established a solid O-Line, and have one of the best playmakers at WR in the league. Baltimore had a complete defense, had always been able to run the football, and were ONLY missing a franchise QB before getting Flacco. Same could be said about Pittsburgh.
The move you're wanting to make is a DESPERATE move, one that rarely ever works out in the long run. Chicago just did that last offseason by trading a ton away to get Jay Cutler, and they are slowly finding out that without a good line, running game, solid defensive play, even one of the best passers in football isn't going to win you anything.
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2007-QB
2008-none
2009-C
2010-Anything but another QB |
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bungleodeon
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 1844
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Why would San Fran be trading to get the first QB in the draft when they are already paying a QB that was a #1 draft pick?
Why would we keep DA for another season then draft a QB in the top 10?
I am no finance expert, but neither of those situations sound remotely believable.
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brownie man
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 3568
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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If were going 43 Spikes is the pick or an OLB like Weatherspoon or Travis Lewis. Mcclain is not going to reach his potential in a 43
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| Austin Carr wrote: | | And furthermore young man, don't bring that weak stuff in here! |
Oh yeah get ready for 28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeovxDqZYyA |
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cattleman78
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 3747
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Dropkick_pride wrote: | The Point After is on STO right now(replay?). They were just talking aout how DA has the worst QB rating so far this season then any other QB since 1982.
How many millions is DA going to get paid next year if he is still on the roster? And you want to keep him as a back up?
After drafting Locker in the first how much $ will we have tied up between Locker and DA at the QB position?
I like some of the other things you have but the above is tough to swallow. |
anderson's contract next year calls for $7.5 million but is not guaranteed is what i have seen. no way will he be paid that to be a back up. he will be released. $7.5 million can be spent a heck of a lot better else where.
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