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Fans Upset Over Quinn
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 44621
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cfbstats.com/2006/player/365/62595.html

this also shows that im right, Russell against ranked teams 8TD 7 INT.

Before the Notre Dame game, he was even more mediocre- 6TD 6INT.

Yet no one bashes him for being bad against good teams? Perhaps its because three other Tigers were drafted in the first round- a reflection of talent on the teams?

Quinn's RB went undrafted and was cut from his first NFL team.
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THRILLHO


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 3089
Location: New Orleans, LA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Hm. Where to go from here.

last year, Quinn: 11TD 5 INT against Ranked competition. last year Russell, 8 TD 7 INt against ranked competition.


Quinn's ranked competition had a road game against a good USC defense, and home games against an overrated Michigan team and a fringe top 25 Penn St team.

JR's ranked competition were 4 road games against SEC teams ranked in the top 10 at the time of the game.

I could care less about college games started. Using how Manning and Leaf turned out to figure out how Quinn and Russell will turn out (as opposed to the players' performances) is ridiculous, as neither player is Manning or Leaf. It's like saying "Don't draft Larry Johnson, Penn St. RB's have been a line of big time busts."
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STLRedHawk7


Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 6244
Location: Arlington, VA but always repping St. Louis
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THRILLHO wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Hm. Where to go from here.

last year, Quinn: 11TD 5 INT against Ranked competition. last year Russell, 8 TD 7 INt against ranked competition.


Quinn's ranked competition had a road game against a good USC defense, and home games against an overrated Michigan team and a fringe top 25 Penn St team.

And a road game against a very good LSU defense. Unless you want to counter that fact? But I'm guessing you won't for obvious reasons.

And Michigan might have been overrated but their defense wasn't.
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Bonanza


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 977
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THRILLHO wrote:
Show me where I said Quinn was inaccurate.


The part where you said:
Quote:
and is more accurate to boot.


Maybe you didn't say it, but I'd bet you were implying it Wink Everyone seems to think the nonfactual Smile
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Hilit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arm strength and athletic ability mean almost nothing for a QB. If you saw Dree brees out shopping you'd think he was a normal guy.

Its decision making and intelligence that matter. Peyton Manning throws tons of wobbling balls but he puts them where they need to be and when they need to be there.

Brady has been in a pro offense and tutored by the best. Mentally he has everything you want. He also has the Jay Cutler about him (played for a terrible team in college and had to win games on his own. Is used to carrying a team so any step up in assistence will be welcomed)

Akili Smith could throw the ball a mile. Guess what though. He had just 19 games of starting experience and no grasp of the mental aspect.

Russell has been running a far less developed offense. In terms of the mental aspect of the game he isnt close to Quinn.
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91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSU not ranked opposition in the Bowl game?
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91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 24360
Location: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hilit wrote:
Arm strength and athletic ability mean almost nothing for a QB. If you saw Dree brees out shopping you'd think he was a normal guy.

Its decision making and intelligence that matter. Peyton Manning throws tons of wobbling balls but he puts them where they need to be and when they need to be there.

Brady has been in a pro offense and tutored by the best. Mentally he has everything you want. He also has the Jay Cutler about him (played for a terrible team in college and had to win games on his own. Is used to carrying a team so any step up in assistence will be welcomed)

Akili Smith could throw the ball a mile. Guess what though. He had just 19 games of starting experience and no grasp of the mental aspect.

Russell has been running a far less developed offense. In terms of the mental aspect of the game he isnt close to Quinn.

Peyton Manning has near perfect throw mechanics, guess who NFL.com compares JR's
"Has a fluid throwing motion, much like the Colts' Peyton Manning …"
So if were comparing either of them to Peyton its JR who is more similar.
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THE MAD STORK wrote:

1. Is Hayden going to be a bust? Sure looked like it last year IMO..But I give him a pass because he almost died…therefore I believe anyone who almost dies deserves a pass……………

A principle to live by..
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THRILLHO


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 3089
Location: New Orleans, LA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:

Yet no one bashes him for being bad against good teams?


And yet JR had a higher QB rating than Quinn in those games. And let's compare how defensive players from Brady's ranked competition were drafted vs. JR's:

Round 1:

JR's competition:
Jamaal Anderson, Arkansas DE (8th)
Justin Harrell, Tenn DT (16th)
Jarvis Moss, Florida DE (17th)
Reggie Nelson, Florida S (21)

Brady's:
Leon Hall, Michigan CB (1Cool

--------------------------
R2:
JR's:
Chris Houston, Arkansas CB (9th)
Turk McBride, Tenn DT (21)

Brady's:
Allen Branch, Michigan DT (1st)
Paul Poz, Penn St LB (2nd)
Lamar Woodley, Michigan DE (14th)
David Harris, Michigan MLB (15th)

Rounds 3-5"

JR's:
John Wade, Tenn CB
Ray McDonald, Florida DT
Marcus Thomas, Florida DT
Joe Cohen, Florida DT
Will Herring, Auburn OLB

Quinns:
Jay Alford, Penn St DT
Dallas Sartz, USC OLB
Tim Shaw, Penn St ILB



Quinn has the advantage in the 2nd round thanks to a bunch of Michigan players (and we see how well they did vs. USC), but the top of the draft was littered with talent that JR had to face throughout last season.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THRILLHO wrote:
It's like saying "Don't draft Larry Johnson, Penn St. RB's have been a line of big time busts."


Well, why then do people all say to dodge Jeff Tedford quarterbacks?
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Hilit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 8753
Location: The University of Edinburgh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
Hilit wrote:
Arm strength and athletic ability mean almost nothing for a QB. If you saw Dree brees out shopping you'd think he was a normal guy.

Its decision making and intelligence that matter. Peyton Manning throws tons of wobbling balls but he puts them where they need to be and when they need to be there.

Brady has been in a pro offense and tutored by the best. Mentally he has everything you want. He also has the Jay Cutler about him (played for a terrible team in college and had to win games on his own. Is used to carrying a team so any step up in assistence will be welcomed)

Akili Smith could throw the ball a mile. Guess what though. He had just 19 games of starting experience and no grasp of the mental aspect.

Russell has been running a far less developed offense. In terms of the mental aspect of the game he isnt close to Quinn.

Peyton Manning has near perfect throw mechanics, guess who NFL.com compares JR's
"Has a fluid throwing motion, much like the Colts' Peyton Manning …"
So if were comparing either of them to Peyton its JR who is more similar.


Peytons mechanics are great but hes throws a lot of shakey balls. If you watch the Colts anniversary DVD he says so himself:

"I mean i've thrown a lot of ducks. But I always put them in my recievers reach right when he wants them there"
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milesles wrote:
Regulate wrote:
Of course Favre is gonna play this Sunday..He is the definition of Man


Did he text you a pic?
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THRILLHO


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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Location: New Orleans, LA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STLRedHawk7 wrote:

And a road game against a very good LSU defense. Unless you want to counter that fact? But I'm guessing you won't for obvious reasons.


I'd forgotten about it. It was a pretty forgettable game, considering he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn despite LSU not getting much pressure on the guy. My passing over a 2 TD, 2 INT, 4YPA game isn't exactly a move that is biased against BQ, regardless of the competition.

Quote:
And Michigan might have been overrated but their defense wasn't.


I think USC and Florida proved that the Big 10 was pretty overrated last season. Michigan and OSU's defenses could do anything.
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THRILLHO


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:


Well, why then do people all say to dodge Jeff Tedford quarterbacks?


I don't even know how to answer that. You just completely missed the point I was making. People were saying avoid Penn St RB's when Larry Johnson was an amazing performer at the school. If an amazing QB comes out of Cal, you can't ignore their feats because of what past players at the school have done in the NFL.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THRILLHO wrote:
Woz wrote:


Well, why then do people all say to dodge Jeff Tedford quarterbacks?


I don't even know how to answer that. You just completely missed the point I was making. People were saying avoid Penn St RB's when Larry Johnson was an amazing performer at the school. If an amazing QB comes out of Cal, you can't ignore their feats because of what past players at the school have done in the NFL.


You were objecting to others comparing Russell and Quinn to Manning and Leaf. You said that it was stupid.

The problem is that humans associate concepts. If I say "Ryan Leaf" to a football fan, chances are the first thing they'll think of is "draft bust." Penn State had the association that they produced good running backs at the college level, but that they turned into busts in the pros. Given that Paterno has been there forever and it was his players, a track record was established. People were hesitant about Johnson because they did not want to burn their picks on yet another bum from Happy Valley. It was especially strange since the Chiefs had a great running back in Priest Holmes.

Now, we've seen that they made the right choice (assuming they can either get him resigned or traded, if that's what they think).

I was giving another track record has been established as conventional wisdom is don't draft Jeff Tedford-coached quarterbacks. If Nate Longshore starts lighting up all comers, there is going to be some hesitancy on some teams' parts because he comes from Tedford. They will look askance at Longshore simply because of the track record of Tedford QBs.

Unfair? Yes. The way it is? Yes.
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THRILLHO


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:


Unfair? Yes. The way it is? Yes.


I don't think that's necessarily true within the NFL. Footballoutsiders and mistakbytehlak are going on and on with the comparisons of JR to Leaf and Quinn to Manning based on association (that QB's with many starts in college do better than those with relatively few), but their jobs don't rest on how accurate they predict. JR went #1 with few starts and Quinn went #22 with many starts for a reason, NFL GM's didn't see the talent in Quinn that they saw in JR. The last time an NFL team made a major draft move based on association rather than play, it cost them a top 10 QB and one of the best defensive players of all time for a guy that hasn't looked anything like his brother.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except for that top 10 QB you are talking about had 47 starts in his collegiate career.....

funny.
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