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BoneyMaroney
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1504
Location: Massachusetts
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 Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | His will to play has never been an issue? What are you talking about? You do know we are talking about RANDY MOSS...that has been the biggest issue. When he doesnt get what he wants, he takes plays off and doesnt play hard. |
You're confusing the will to play with the willingness to play. They're two different things. He wants to play, be successful and win and when the team isnt, or things havent gone his way....he's pouted. The will to play is and has ALWAYS been there. He wouldnt have put up the numbers he has without it
| Quote: | | I love how Patriots fans think their team is so above and beyond every other team in this league and that they are immune to all the bad things. They werent immune to the HGH bug that has taken one of their best players. One minute Patiots fans are calling him one of the best, and then this happens and all of a sudden he is expendable. |
Patriots fans dont think the team is above every other......it's just a cop out stereotype other fans create because they don't want to accept reality. The reality that, the New England Patriots are one of the top organizations in the National Football League on and off the field, period. Character issues have never been an issue here. We heard it all when Rodney Harrison, and Corey Dillon came to town about how they're cancers, and now with Randy Moss. Its nothing new to the organization, so until they can't handle it....you have to assume they will.
| Quote: | Now with Randy Moss, Pats fans are blind to what this guy is all about. I remember when the rumor started about him going to NE, Pats fans were like "This guy is a selfish a$$ and there is no room for the likes of him on our team" Now, all of a sudden, he is a great guy.
Pats fans crack me up. |
Now when you generalize Pats fans, you're referring to a select few. I know exactly what the Patriots received when they picked up Randy Moss.....possibly the most talented, gifted WR of all-time with authority issues and a will to win.
How some people perceive Pats fans and generalizes them ALL....cracks ME up.
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| TMX Cowboy wrote: | | Although Tom Brady is a great quarterback, I think he is overrated this year because his receivers make him look better than he is. |
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Ares Caesar
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 1565
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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I live in Minnesota and I'm a Vikings fan. While Moss was here, anytime Moss did anything it was covered in the news. We dont have a lot of superstar players in the state, and while Moss was here, he was one of them... so let me tell you when he took a cr@p everyone knew about it.
Moss has 2 things in NE, that he had only for a short time in his career prior;
1) Veteran Leadership on the team- This is perhaps THE most important aspect. Moss was never a problem until team leaders Cris Carter and Randall Cunningham left the team. Once Moss was proclaimed "The Man" as a team leader, the problems began. You *cannot* have a selfish player, combined with a selfish position as a team leader and expect to have good things come of it. There is a reason QBs are generally team leaders, and its because they by design "distribute" and cannot be selfish. (unless they start passing to themselves?  )
The New England Patriots have more leaders on their team than necessary, thus requiring NOTHING from Moss beyond "making plays." This does not leave him to so heavily affect the locker room. If he isnt a leader, how is he going to "cancer" the team? They have plenty of other guys who will be able to inspire and motivate teammates regardless of Moss' attitude.
2) A winning team- Moss was *never* a problem when the Vikings were a playoff team, or even during the games they won. Moss is a poor loser, there is NO doubt about that. However let me ask this, what team did Randy Moss join?
The dynasty of this decade, the New England Patriots.
As long as the Pats are winning, and he's getting a touchdown here and there and a few balls his way, he wont be a problem. 1 of those things is assured (They ARENT going to lose too many games)
I'm telling you, from someone who saw him for many years (Oakland never got to see him as Vikings fans did... Oakland had NEITHER of the two things I listed above) This is the absolutely perfect situation to harbor a wild beast like Randy Moss. If anyone can tame the "super freak" its the New England Patriots.
Injuries are the only thing that keeps this guy from having a 10+ TD season.
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Sean Taylor-Forever 'Canes-
Last edited by Ares Caesar on Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Canadian_Patriot
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 8709
Location: Halifax
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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The talking will be done on the field, I don't think i need to get into a huge discussion defending my team that went to the AFC championship game last year and was like 5 minutes away from the superbowl.
The actions begin this Sunday, and I have all the faith in the worth, that whether Moss catches 13 TD's this year, or 3, we'll still be back in that AFC championship game looking back at all of your guys trying to find ways to constantly knock us down.
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Boltstrikes
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 5145
Location: LA MIRADA, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Canadian_Patriot wrote: | | Boltstrikes wrote: | | Is Moss the most overhyped off season deal? Of course he is. Randy is older and injury plagued now |
I'm so sick of hearing this.
138 Career Games
132 Played
95.6% of his games, hes been in there.
Doesn't seem to injury prone to me. He is older, so there are more chances for injury, but to just write him off and SAY that he's injury prone, i think is a little silly. |
You can write four of those games off the last 4 years that he "played" in. He just went out there and limped around on a pulled hamstring and dogged it. That is a deceptive stat to pull. The guy was always sitting practice out for the Raiders with some nonsense injury.
Like I said, is he capable of being a good role player at this stage in his career. Yes. Is he going to be a 16 TD season type of guy that you expect when you hear the name Randy Moss? No. He is overhyped now. A decent pickup, but not the best one the Patriots made this year.
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| EverythingSF wrote: | | But I do feel Alex is better than Rivers and we may as well not even argue over it here because I am pretty sure neither will change the others mind. |
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BoneyMaroney
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1504
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Like I said, is he capable of being a good role player at this stage in his career. Yes. Is he going to be a 16 TD season type of guy that you expect when you hear the name Randy Moss? No. He is overhyped now. A decent pickup, but not the best one the Patriots made this year. |
I hope the San Diego Chargers share that opinion on him with you......it'll be fun watching him run through the Charger secondary single covered 
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| TMX Cowboy wrote: | | Although Tom Brady is a great quarterback, I think he is overrated this year because his receivers make him look better than he is. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40594
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneyMaroney wrote: |
You're confusing the will to play with the willingness to play. They're two different things. He wants to play, be successful and win and when the team isnt, or things havent gone his way....he's pouted. The will to play is and has ALWAYS been there. He wouldnt have put up the numbers he has without it |
Im not confusing anything, and they arent much different. His WILL to play means absolutely nothing if he isnt WILLING to play. A team player will play hard no matter how badly the team is doing and no matter how much he gets passed to.
| BoneyMaroney wrote: | | Patriots fans dont think the team is above every other......it's just a cop out stereotype other fans create because they don't want to accept reality. The reality that, the New England Patriots are one of the top organizations in the National Football League on and off the field, period. Character issues have never been an issue here. We heard it all when Rodney Harrison, and Corey Dillon came to town about how they're cancers, and now with Randy Moss. Its nothing new to the organization, so until they can't handle it....you have to assume they will. |
Accept reality? What do I care? I respect the Pats organization, it has nothing to do with that. Its how stuck up and arrogant their fans have become. The organization does handle adversity well, thats not what this is about. This is about how Pats fans talk about how great they are constantly like they can do no wrong. Plus all the double talking. One minute Harrison is a key to the defense, the next minute he is expendable. One minute Moss is a selfish SOB, the next he is great. 
| BoneyMaroney wrote: | Now when you generalize Pats fans, you're referring to a select few. I know exactly what the Patriots received when they picked up Randy Moss.....possibly the most talented, gifted WR of all-time with authority issues and a will to win.
How some people perceive Pats fans and generalizes them ALL....cracks ME up. |
Hey, I have nothing wrong with Pats fans personally. I like most of the ones I meet, regardless of how arrogant they are about their team. And I didnt mean to generalize, but with the Pats, its most of them in this case. Like when Bill Belcihick tossed that cameraman like a ragdoll and snubbed Mangini after the Jets loss, most Pats fans were being so apologetic. They are blind to anything negative about the team, even in the slightest.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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BoneyMaroney
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1504
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Im not confusing anything, and they arent much different. His WILL to play means absolutely nothing if he isnt WILLING to play. A team player will play hard no matter how badly the team is doing and no matter how much he gets passed to. |
The will to play and be on the field is something every successful player has to have. The willingness to play can vary from game to game depending on injury, situation, etc. His willingness to play within the Oakland system wasnt there....but his will to play football was.
| Quote: | | Accept reality? What do I care? I respect the Pats organization, it has nothing to do with that. Its how stuck up and arrogant their fans have become. The organization does handle adversity well, thats not what this is about. This is about how Pats fans talk about how great they are constantly like they can do no wrong. Plus all the double talking. One minute Harrison is a key to the defense, the next minute he is expendable. One minute Moss is a selfish SOB, the next he is great. |
I never said the Patriots can't do wrong. Ive just stated that until it's proven they cant handle a situation....you have to assume they can. Rodney Harrison hasnt been a key to this defense since 2004. He has looked much better, faster, younger this year (and we now all know why....*cough*HGH*cough*) but the key now is the defensive line play. Harrison isnt expendable....but the defense can succeed without him. As for Moss, he has been selfish in the past.....but he's ALWAYS been great. Theres no denying his abilities, even with his problem with authority.
| Quote: | | Hey, I have nothing wrong with Pats fans personally. I like most of the ones I meet, regardless of how arrogant they are about their team. And I didnt mean to generalize, but with the Pats, its most of them in this case. Like when Bill Belcihick tossed that cameraman like a ragdoll and snubbed Mangini after the Jets loss, most Pats fans were being so apologetic. They are blind to anything negative about the team, even in the slightest. |
Ok.....when Bill Belichick "tossed the cameraman like a ragdoll" it was to get to Mangini and hug him. Another case of non-story made into one.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1uKjJhPBjN4
The time he snubbed him, can you blame him ?? His team played sloppy, mistake filled football and lost a home game to a weaker team. Just because he didnt congratulate the winning coach with open arms, he's wrong ?? They're very similar in terms of personality and intensity and used to fight like brothers when Mangini was in New England. Would you congratulate your "little brother" after losing to him ?? Not me.....
Being blind to negativity is one thing......but being blind to media conjured negativity is another. Most of the issues debated are nothing more than a rumor and until I see hard evidence proving there's an issue that the organization can't handle.....I'll continue to believe that they will.
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| TMX Cowboy wrote: | | Although Tom Brady is a great quarterback, I think he is overrated this year because his receivers make him look better than he is. |
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Boltstrikes
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 5145
Location: LA MIRADA, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneyMaroney wrote: | | Quote: | | Like I said, is he capable of being a good role player at this stage in his career. Yes. Is he going to be a 16 TD season type of guy that you expect when you hear the name Randy Moss? No. He is overhyped now. A decent pickup, but not the best one the Patriots made this year. |
I hope the San Diego Chargers share that opinion on him with you......it'll be fun watching him run through the Charger secondary single covered |
2004 min wr 13 25.5 Snaps per game
2005 rai wr 16 30.0 Snaps per game
2006 rai wr 13 21.0 Snaps per game
The previous years he played around 50-60 snaps per game. He has been playing less. It's hard to be the superstar Randy Moss when he hasn't been on the field.
Moss was covered by Jammer last year, and Jammer is far from being considered elite, but in single coverage Moss put up these stats.
2006 VS. SAN DIEGO 7 Rec 73 yards 10.4 Avg 20 long 0 TDS
2005 VS SAN DIEGO 7 REC 74 yards 10.6 AVG 24 LONG 0 TDS
Against the rest of the division, he has been less then stellar as well.
2006 VS. DENVER 6 Rec 94 yards 15.7 avg 51 long 0 TDS
2006 He played in one game agaisnt Surtain and Law in KC and didn't have a catch last year.
Moss was great in his prime. He is 3-4 years past his prime. However if the patriots have the elixir to restore a players prime then please let me know, I know Priest Holmes, Curtis Martin and Jamal Lewis would both love to return to their form 3-4 years ago.
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| EverythingSF wrote: | | But I do feel Alex is better than Rivers and we may as well not even argue over it here because I am pretty sure neither will change the others mind. |
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BoneyMaroney
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1504
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Moss was covered by Jammer last year, and Jammer is far from being considered elite, but in single coverage Moss put up these stats.
2006 VS. SAN DIEGO 7 Rec 73 yards 10.4 Avg 20 long 0 TDS
2005 VS SAN DIEGO 7 REC 74 yards 10.6 AVG 24 LONG 0 TDS
Against the rest of the division, he has been less then stellar as well.
2006 VS. DENVER 6 Rec 94 yards 15.7 avg 51 long 0 TDS
2006 He played in one game agaisnt Surtain and Law in KC and didn't have a catch last year.
Moss was great in his prime. He is 3-4 years past his prime. However if the patriots have the elixir to restore a players prime then please let me know, I know Priest Holmes, Curtis Martin and Jamal Lewis would both love to return to their form 3-4 years ago. |
Who cares what Randy Moss did as a member of the terrible Oakland offense ?? He's playing for a much better team now and I have personally watched him in practice blow by everyone in the Patriots secondary. There is no doubt the ability is still there. I had my doubts as welll....until I saw him going at one speed, and everyone else at a slower one. I'm not saying he'll put up 1500 yards and 15 touchdowns......but I am saying he still has the speed and leaping ability that helped produce those numbers. A couple of bad seasons with a bad team doesn't define a career or an individuals' ability......especially one as bad as Oakland's.
Comparing him to 3 players that have had SERIOUS injuries throughout their careers to Randy Moss doesnt make any sense.......especially considering they're all running backs and the career expectancy is much shorter for them.
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| TMX Cowboy wrote: | | Although Tom Brady is a great quarterback, I think he is overrated this year because his receivers make him look better than he is. |
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BornToFly
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 9983
Location: SE Wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Better not, I drafted in in the 4th round in FF
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husker_vikes3 wrote:
| Quote: | | you have the best ideas. |
BornToFly's Relationship Advice V14 |
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52decleetzu
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenboyGB wrote: | | Woz wrote: |
Perhaps Moss turns it around and is a model citizen for the entire year. Perhaps not. This was the risk you guys signed up for when you traded for Moss. Until the rest of us are shown that he can be a model stay citizen and stay that way, you are going to have to deal with this. It is what it is. |
And thats why he is on a leash... |
Was that leash tied to the bench for the past month? |
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52decleetzu
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | BoneyMaroney wrote: |
His work ethic and will to play have NEVER been an issue....he's always in great shape, and he wants to win. The only thing in question has been his issues with authority and how he pouts when he doesnt get what he wants. He has what he wants right now so all is good and as long as the Patriots are succesful, he won't be a problem at all. |
His will to play has never been an issue? What are you talking about? You do know we are talking about RANDY MOSS...that has been the biggest issue. When he doesnt get what he wants, he takes plays off and doesnt play hard.
I love how Patriots fans think their team is so above and beyond every other team in this league and that they are immune to all the bad things. They werent immune to the HGH bug that has taken one of their best players. One minute Patiots fans are calling him one of the best, and then this happens and all of a sudden he is expendable.
Now with Randy Moss, Pats fans are blind to what this guy is all about. I remember when the rumor started about him going to NE, Pats fans were like "This guy is a selfish a$$ and there is no room for the likes of him on our team" Now, all of a sudden, he is a great guy.
Pats fans crack me up.
I hope he works out well for you guys, I really do, but just wait and see what happens if he doesnt get enough balls his way. |
So true,its like they think that Belicheck will emit some waves of greatness to anyone and everyone who sets foot in NE these days.
I heard he was seen levitating at practice to get a better view,and then just vanished into thin air after practice was over.The guy is amazing. |
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Canadian_Patriot
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 8709
Location: Halifax
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| 52decleetzu wrote: |
So true,its like they think that Belicheck will emit some waves of greatness to anyone and everyone who sets foot in NE these days.
I heard he was seen levitating at practice to get a better view,and then just vanished into thin air after practice was over.The guy is amazing. |
Or you know. He'll just put a quality football team out on the field and go win games. That being his job after all.
Super funny joke though! 
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sundancejoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 3729
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry to get you Pats fans riled up, but the truth is the truth. The last time most of you probibly saw him play was the season opener 2 years ago (his first game as a Raider). Yes, then he owned your secondary. Sadly, his first game as a Raider was his best. You didn't have to watch him run half speed and go up for every catch with alligator arms. The guy could be amazing for you. He could be the worst thing to ever happen to your team. |
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BoneyMaroney
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1504
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Sorry to get you Pats fans riled up, but the truth is the truth. The last time most of you probibly saw him play was the season opener 2 years ago (his first game as a Raider). Yes, then he owned your secondary. Sadly, his first game as a Raider was his best. You didn't have to watch him run half speed and go up for every catch with alligator arms. The guy could be amazing for you. He could be the worst thing to ever happen to your team. |
The truth doesn't rile me. Theres no question he dogged it in Oakland and didnt play to his ability, partly due to the offense and partly due to his lack of effort.
What does rile me up is when people attempt to stereotype and group Patriot fans together as believing we're high and mighty. Just because the majority of personnel moves the team makes, works out and we believe this one will......we're all of sudden oblivious to negativity and think we're never wrong ?? Theres only been two personnel moves that havent worked out and fit into the system in recent memory....Doug Gabriel and Monty Beisel. Both of which didnt last the season and they parted ways.
Not many people understand the system New England has for evaluating intelligence, ability, character, etc. It's unlike any other in the league. Many players have expressed this, and if the front office and coaching staff believes in a player....why shouldnt the fans as well ?? Especially since they've PROVEN to be very reliable and successful.
Another incident of confidence and trust being mistaken for arrogance
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| TMX Cowboy wrote: | | Although Tom Brady is a great quarterback, I think he is overrated this year because his receivers make him look better than he is. |
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