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Rolni


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Oakland Raiders Defense 2015 Reply with quote

We have our HC and DC in place for a while now and we finished the free agent signings for now, so I think this could be a good time to talk about our projected defense before the draft.

I think it worth a discussion before the draft, because our defensive scheme will obviously have an impact on the draft. I know that we will go with the BPA approach, but when you have 2 guys with identical rating you go back and check who fits your scheme, plan better IMO.


It is obvious that there are two defenses from last season(s), which we should look at as fans, since those will give us the best guess for our 2015 defense. Yeah the Denver Broncos and the Seattle Seahawks are those defenses and that is clear to everyone here. Let's break down our roster and see what we got then...

Both of those defenses uses a 4-3 base formations, so we can expect the same for us and both of those teams run lots of 4-3under looks just like we did last year.

Both of those defenses used the LDE position similarly. Both of them used the LDE as a run stopping 2 gap 5tech lineman. Red Bryant (not last year I know) and Derek Wolfe are the prototipical guys for the LDE role, but as the Seahawks showed it can be played with smaller, quicker guy well too (Bennett).
I think we will ask our LDE to focus on the run first and contain 2 gaps in the base package. I also think that we have a really solid group of players on roster, who can fill in nicely for that role.
Justin Tuck and CJ Wilson comes to mind immediately and rightfully IMO. Last year they were pretty good in an identical role. We have some young guys after them, who can grow into the position with some time IMO. I'm talking about Shelby Harris and Denico Autry here. It will be interesting to see whether any of them can push the veterans and get a 53 roster spot.
I think we are set at LDE.

At the DT position there is a slight difference in concept between the 2 teams, but nothing major IMO. I think Seattle would like to have more pressure from the 3tech DT spot, but they weren't consistent in that during the years, so that couldn't be a focal point IMO. Both teams focusing on the run heavily with their DT's. Denver had Terrence Knighton and Silvester Williams next to each other and while they might be a bit lighter then the Williams-Jelly duo they are on the same level when it comes to pass rush. I think we will have our big boys up front for the early downs a lot and later they will give us a really solid rotation at NT. We have Antonio Smith as a veteran for the 3tech DT spot, where he played solid as the season went on last year, but I think he will be more of a pass rushing specialist then a starter and that's a good idea IMO. We have Ricky Lumpkin and Stacy McGee as young guys at DT. Both of them showed some nice things during the last 2 seasons Stacy in 2013 and Ricky in 2014, but neither seems to be a lock right now IMO. If we add another DT via draft (which I can see easily) there will be a really big fight in TC between McGee, Lumpkin, the rookie and even A.Smith.
In nickel or dime packages we can expect some Tuck\Wilson-Smith duo's in the middle as well, but for the most part I think our DT's will be run stoppers. As I said I can see us adding another DT to the roster via draft (and if we do so I expect that to be a pass rushing UT, Leo Williams says Hi! Smile), but since we wanna focus on the run stopping part in the middle we can field a team from this group without a problem IMO.

At RDE we have a hole and that's obvious. Both Denver and Seattle uses the RDE as a pass rush specialist most of the time. Cliff Avril, DeMarcus Ware or Chris Clemons earlier...smaller, but quick effective pass rushers. These Defenses rely big on that position. We have Benson Mayowa there, but he is more of a back up, so we will need to adress this position. I know that some of you want to put Khalil Mack there to be our LEO, since he is the best pass rusher on the team, but I don't like that idea. Mack is so much more than a pass rusher and we should use him better. We should move him around, put him at OLB where he is a force against the run and also can be effective as a rusher and then put him down to DE to rush the passer, move him from left side to right and confuse the OL and the QB. I would like RM to add a pass rusher to the roster pretty early. My only problem is I can't really see a guy who could fill the void if we go WR or Leo Williams in the first. I think we may end up in a situation where we have to use Mack and Mayowa down at RDE a lot more then I would like to...


Both of those mentioned defenses uses big, pass rushers at SLB. We have Khalil Mack there and I would really like him to stay there as I stated that before. He can be a game changer there IMO.
We could use Burris as depth behind Mack, but I expect Khalil to be the SAM almost 100% of the time, since we will run 2LB sets when he is down at DE.

Both of those teams uses athletic and quick guys at WLB and 3down MLB's (when the starter is healthy). We have Sio Moore at WLB which is fine and we added Malcolm Smith as depth to that position too. We have Curtis Lofton at MLB, who is a 2down MLB at this stage of his carrier, but I really think that Moore and Smith will be our nickel 2 LB tandem, which is fine by me on paper. I also expect us to add another MLB to the roster via draft and I think that guy will be more of a Bobby Wagner then a Curtis Lofton if you know what I mean. Good thing is that we have Norton and JDR to tutor a young MLB.

In the secondary both teams like to run man on the outside with some zone's obviously and with a high FS with the SS more around the box. We are really young at CB, but full of potential as well and we can match that with great experience at S. Hayden and Carrie will have a really big task, but if they can continue where they left of the 2014 season we could finally see solid CB play from both starters. Keith McGill's improvement will also be critical since as of now he would be the 3rd CB in nickel packages, with Carrie sliding in at NCB.

At safety I think the Woodson and Allen duo will start with Woodson being the SS closer to the LOS\box and Allen being the last line. I also think that Ross and Asante could have a solid roles as rotational guys and there is Jonathan Dowling as the project at S. We will see how many DB's will get on the final roster, but there will be a big fight IMO.
I would have liked a veteran CB addition via FA, since this CB corp is really young and unproven with injury concerns, but I can see what RM and JDR is doing...


Overall I think our defensive roster is the best in long years.
We have a really solid front 7 in the making with a potential superstar and on the back end we could field a potent secondary finally. If the front 7 puts it together and we can finally have some pass rush I think the defense overall will be pretty solid. I really expect this unit to be around TOP 10 against the run and around TOP 15 overall.

I would like to hear if you have some different ideas about this upcoming defense, about roles and needs.
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Modman7777


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a browser and not a poster these days, but bravo 👏 . Very insightful, detailed, thought out and accurate points across the board. Saw the novel at first and said oh boy, but ended up being a very enjoyable read.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you nailed it. IMO Mayowa could be a huge surprise, as of right now he would start as the LEO, but we will draft someone to compete with him.
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Crickett


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please tell me the rumors of the Raiders moving Khalil Mack to defensive end are false. Pray
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post Rolni!

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your assesments of each part of the defence and I don't think I can offer many different ideas as to what we're going to be doing on defence. I would hope our CBs play a little more closely as we seemed to be playing quite far off last season - probably as a safety valve due to our inexperience or lack of pass rush.

I would add that while Nate Allen has been a questionable move for some, I believe JDR and Reggie deliberately targeted him as being a guy who can play centre field with great range, good closing speed and decent ball hawking abilities. I think we put him in a much better situation to suceed than the Eagles did.

I like your assesment of the DL and feel like we have 3/4 of what we need there. The obvious gap in our scheme is the LEO or 9T or wide RE position. Luckily, there are plenty of guys who look to have potential to fill that very important role in the draft:

Vic Beasley, Shane Ray and Dante Fowler spring to mind as being athletic speed rushing types who all have varying weaknesses in run defence. Alvin Dupree is a guy i've liked for a while but he is more potential than production at this point. A guy I really like that could be had later is Hauoli Kikaha and another name we could be interested in would be Eli Harold. All have their pros and cons but one thing to remember is that they will have the advantage of having Mack opposite them to take some pressure off, stout DTs inside and a good LB in Moore or Smith behind them which should help.

Therefore, draft wise I think we'll be looking at a few positions in particular - LEO is the prime need, nickel CB and CB depth, LB depth and possibly a penetrating UT as you say.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not understanding what the issue with having Mack at DE is? Can someone explain?
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
Please tell me the rumors of the Raiders moving Khalil Mack to defensive end are false. Pray


JDR has been quoted as saying the move would be 'natural'

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2015/3/24/8284635/jack-del-rio-says-khalil-mack-move-to-defensive-end-would-be-natural-oakland-raiders

I think it's not a traditional DE role we're talking about though, he put his hand in the dirt a few times last year and played some snaps as a DE in Nickel packages so it's not like we're forcing him to completely change positions - or it could be subterfuge in order to disgiuse what our plan is in the draft Laughing
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modman7777 wrote:
I'm a browser and not a poster these days, but bravo 👏 . Very insightful, detailed, thought out and accurate points across the board. Saw the novel at first and said oh boy, but ended up being a very enjoyable read.

Thanks man Smile

raidr4life wrote:
I think you nailed it. IMO Mayowa could be a huge surprise, as of right now he would start as the LEO, but we will draft someone to compete with him.

I like Mayowa a lot, but I think we shouldn't rely on him too much. If he Rocks that's great, if he flops we have back up plan...

Darbsk wrote:
Great post Rolni!

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your assesments of each part of the defence and I don't think I can offer many different ideas as to what we're going to be doing on defence. I would hope our CBs play a little more closely as we seemed to be playing quite far off last season - probably as a safety valve due to our inexperience or lack of pass rush.

I would add that while Nate Allen has been a questionable move for some, I believe JDR and Reggie deliberately targeted him as being a guy who can play centre field with great range, good closing speed and decent ball hawking abilities. I think we put him in a much better situation to suceed than the Eagles did.

I like your assesment of the DL and feel like we have 3/4 of what we need there. The obvious gap in our scheme is the LEO or 9T or wide RE position. Luckily, there are plenty of guys who look to have potential to fill that very important role in the draft:

Vic Beasley, Shane Ray and Dante Fowler spring to mind as being athletic speed rushing types who all have varying weaknesses in run defence. Alvin Dupree is a guy i've liked for a while but he is more potential than production at this point. A guy I really like that could be had later is Hauoli Kikaha and another name we could be interested in would be Eli Harold. All have their pros and cons but one thing to remember is that they will have the advantage of having Mack opposite them to take some pressure off, stout DTs inside and a good LB in Moore or Smith behind them which should help.

Therefore, draft wise I think we'll be looking at a few positions in particular - LEO is the prime need, nickel CB and CB depth, LB depth and possibly a penetrating UT as you say.

I think we will\should go with WR in the 1st. We need to give Carr a big time weapon IMO. So I think we will have to find our RDE in round 2 or later...Kikaha ad Harold could be interesting options.

TiberiusRising wrote:
I am not understanding what the issue with having Mack at DE is? Can someone explain?

I give you my 5cents:
Khalil Mack is a great all around OLB. He is a force against the run, he can cover RB's, TE's and he can offer good pass rushing presence.
We all saw this last year, however we also saw that Mack is not a speed rusher, that's not his strongest point IMO and I want my RDE\LEO to be a true speed rusher. We saw last year that Mack alone is not the answer as a pass rusher. He is not a one man wrecking crue in that department.

I think Khalil Mack is much better used in the Von Miller or should say Khalil Mack rookie role. SLB in the base package and DE in pass rushing situations.

I want a speed rusher badly on this team. He don't have to be an everydown player, since Mayowa is a viable option as base RDE, if there is a speed rusher behind him who can come in for nickel and dime packages.

I think Mack's cover and sideline-to-sideline LB ability would be lost if he would be put down into a full time DE role.

That's how I see it.
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agarcia34


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its a make or break season for DJ Hayden in the games he has played in he shown promise and showed why he was a high draft. I'm way more concerned about Hayden then iam abut Carrie.

He's interring his 3rd season and his first off-season where he is fully healthy(HOPEFULLY) and he will be able to get all the valuable reps that he needs to grow into a good CB. The pressure is on.
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agarcia34 wrote:
I think its a make or break season for DJ Hayden in the games he has played in he shown promise and showed why he was a high draft. I'm way more concerned about Hayden then iam abut Carrie.

He's interring his 3rd season and his first off-season where he is fully healthy(HOPEFULLY) and he will be able to get all the valuable reps that he needs to grow into a good CB. The pressure is on.


You are right, this will be a really important season and offseason for DJ. He needs to stay healthy and he needs to make the next step and be consistently good.

On the other hand TJ Carrie had lots of injuries in college, so the worry is always there with him IMO.

McGill should also benefit big time from a fully healthy full offseason.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:

TiberiusRising wrote:
I am not understanding what the issue with having Mack at DE is? Can someone explain?

I give you my 5cents:
Khalil Mack is a great all around OLB. He is a force against the run, he can cover RB's, TE's and he can offer good pass rushing presence.
We all saw this last year, however we also saw that Mack is not a speed rusher, that's not his strongest point IMO and I want my RDE\LEO to be a true speed rusher. We saw last year that Mack alone is not the answer as a pass rusher. He is not a one man wrecking crue in that department.

I think Khalil Mack is much better used in the Von Miller or should say Khalil Mack rookie role. SLB in the base package and DE in pass rushing situations.

I want a speed rusher badly on this team. He don't have to be an everydown player, since Mayowa is a viable option as base RDE, if there is a speed rusher behind him who can come in for nickel and dime packages.

I think Mack's cover and sideline-to-sideline LB ability would be lost if he would be put down into a full time DE role.

That's how I see it.


This is a very interesting point, and one in which I am in agreement. The strange thing is a lot of the higher profile pass rushers in this draft are being labelled as 'speed rushers' - meant as a negative in that they have perceived deficiencies in their variety of pass rush moves or rush defence. I see Beasley and Ray labelled as 'speed rusher' and I think to myself that is exacty what we need in our D to compliment the other ingredients Smile
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reddevil


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Rolni wrote:

TiberiusRising wrote:
I am not understanding what the issue with having Mack at DE is? Can someone explain?

I give you my 5cents:
Khalil Mack is a great all around OLB. He is a force against the run, he can cover RB's, TE's and he can offer good pass rushing presence.
We all saw this last year, however we also saw that Mack is not a speed rusher, that's not his strongest point IMO and I want my RDE\LEO to be a true speed rusher. We saw last year that Mack alone is not the answer as a pass rusher. He is not a one man wrecking crue in that department.

I think Khalil Mack is much better used in the Von Miller or should say Khalil Mack rookie role. SLB in the base package and DE in pass rushing situations.

I want a speed rusher badly on this team. He don't have to be an everydown player, since Mayowa is a viable option as base RDE, if there is a speed rusher behind him who can come in for nickel and dime packages.

I think Mack's cover and sideline-to-sideline LB ability would be lost if he would be put down into a full time DE role.

That's how I see it.


This is a very interesting point, and one in which I am in agreement. The strange thing is a lot of the higher profile pass rushers in this draft are being labelled as 'speed rushers' - meant as a negative in that they have perceived deficiencies in their variety of pass rush moves or rush defence. I see Beasley and Ray labelled as 'speed rusher' and I think to myself that is exacty what we need in our D to compliment the other ingredients Smile


Great initial post and responses.

And I agree Darbsk. It has taken me a while to get around to this point - certainly with Bealey who at first I saw as a situational pass - rusher. Now as the defense starts to shape and looks like a really solid group, I think we afford to have a guy who doesn't necassarily have to have as many responsibilities. A guy who can just be cut loose after the QB. For this reason Beasley is now no. 2 on my board behind Williams. Hoped for a better pro day from Ray. Still pretty high on him though. Certainly if we trade down.

Kikaha is a guy who's name I haven't heard around here much. Has he had his pro day? Was it a serious injury that kept him out of the combine? What round do people see him going in?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kikaha's pro day is on april 2, iirc. I think he's a late 2nd to early 3rd right now but that could change if he tests well.

As for Mack moving to RE, i really don't know. He has shown he has no problem holding the POA against OTs and TEs but i tend to agree that he's not a pure speed rusher. Imo, the LEO and the SAM are not that different in their roles. I guess it depends more on who we are able to add in the draft.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reddevil wrote:

Great initial post and responses.

And I agree Darbsk. It has taken me a while to get around to this point - certainly with Bealey who at first I saw as a situational pass - rusher. Now as the defense starts to shape and looks like a really solid group, I think we afford to have a guy who doesn't necassarily have to have as many responsibilities. A guy who can just be cut loose after the QB. For this reason Beasley is now no. 2 on my board behind Williams. Hoped for a better pro day from Ray. Still pretty high on him though. Certainly if we trade down.

Kikaha is a guy who's name I haven't heard around here much. Has he had his pro day? Was it a serious injury that kept him out of the combine? What round do people see him going in?


I believe Kikaha missed the combine through illness. Regarding his knee injury:

In the 2011 season opener against the California Golden Bears, Kikaha—then known by the last name of Jamora, which he later changed to honor his mother's side of the family—tore his left anterior cruciate ligament.

It took a second surgery on the same knee for it to finally feel right again, according to Kikaha:

"I'm extremely confident in the results we've gotten. The second surgery was done by one of a top surgeons in the Seattle Seahawks' Edward Khalfayan. He's probably going to be there [at the NFL combine]. I'm really confident in his work, and I'm feeling very strong compared to the first time".


I myself have had 2 surgeries on an ACL tear so I'm not unfamiliar with the procedures and though it is a major injury I think the recovery success is evident by his subsequent performances. For us specifically, he's not as quick or agile as Beasley or Ray but he is a better run defender than Beasley and I think his natural position is as a LEO or Nickel pass rusher. Again, we're not looking for a Howie Long style DE here who can do it all so we could perhaps compromise a little in run defence for a boost in pass rush IMHO. I think we could get him in the early 3rd if we're lucky. Anthony Chickillo is a player I also like a little later in the draft, He's more stout but the trade off is a decline in explosiveness and burst but he'd be great value.

One thing I think we have to consider is that these guys will actually benefit from playing across from Mack (rather than the other way round). If I was an OC would I focus on and adjust my game plan to negate the rookie or Mack?
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
reddevil wrote:

Great initial post and responses.

And I agree Darbsk. It has taken me a while to get around to this point - certainly with Bealey who at first I saw as a situational pass - rusher. Now as the defense starts to shape and looks like a really solid group, I think we afford to have a guy who doesn't necassarily have to have as many responsibilities. A guy who can just be cut loose after the QB. For this reason Beasley is now no. 2 on my board behind Williams. Hoped for a better pro day from Ray. Still pretty high on him though. Certainly if we trade down.

Kikaha is a guy who's name I haven't heard around here much. Has he had his pro day? Was it a serious injury that kept him out of the combine? What round do people see him going in?


I believe Kikaha missed the combine through illness. Regarding his knee injury:

In the 2011 season opener against the California Golden Bears, Kikaha—then known by the last name of Jamora, which he later changed to honor his mother's side of the family—tore his left anterior cruciate ligament.

It took a second surgery on the same knee for it to finally feel right again, according to Kikaha:

"I'm extremely confident in the results we've gotten. The second surgery was done by one of a top surgeons in the Seattle Seahawks' Edward Khalfayan. He's probably going to be there [at the NFL combine]. I'm really confident in his work, and I'm feeling very strong compared to the first time".


I myself have had 2 surgeries on an ACL tear so I'm not unfamiliar with the procedures and though it is a major injury I think the recovery success is evident by his subsequent performances. For us specifically, he's not as quick or agile as Beasley or Ray but he is a better run defender than Beasley and I think his natural position is as a LEO or Nickel pass rusher. Again, we're not looking for a Howie Long style DE here who can do it all so we could perhaps compromise a little in run defence for a boost in pass rush IMHO. I think we could get him in the early 3rd if we're lucky. Anthony Chickillo is a player I also like a little later in the draft, He's more stout but the trade off is a decline in explosiveness and burst but he'd be great value.

One thing I think we have to consider is that these guys will actually benefit from playing across from Mack (rather than the other way round). If I was an OC would I focus on and adjust my game plan to negate the rookie or Mack?


Really good point man!

Mack will be the focal point of every game plan in 2015 for opposing OC's, so a guy like P.Smith or Kikaha or Chikillo could benefit big time from that.
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