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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: NFL Combine Thread Reply with quote

I thought we could start a combine thread since it's coming up soon and there is sure to be all kinds of discussion going on about it that weekend.

Anyways, I saw an article on the redskins blog about what players do who aren't invited to the combine and how our scouts and front office people find them. It even has a few videos.

http://blog.redskins.com/2014/02/18/when-the-combine-is-not-an-option/#more-20014734

Quote:
Throughout February and March, dark horse draft candidates will have a chance to impress in Los Angeles, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Chicago, Miami, Seattle, Indianapolis and Baltimore before the Super Regional Combine in Detroit on April 12-13.

In 2013, 10 Regional/Super Regional Combine participants held 53-man roster positions to begin the season.

Redskins Director of Pro Personnel Scott Campbell said he sent a scout to Houston and will send scouts to Atlanta, Baltimore and the Super Regional in Detroit.


Also -

Redskins.com will broadcast Grudenís Combine press conference live at 3:15p.m ET Friday afternoon.
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óDays until: NFL Draft 14; Training camp 90; Kickoff 183
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stickied
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be wrong, totally wrong ( been known to happen ) and I'm probably in a small minority but I think the Combine is THE MOST OVERRATED OVERHYPED whatever it is --EVER.
Speed, strength, reach, jumping ability don't measure a "Football Player "..! I'll take the kid that plays w/ his heart and played 3-4 years at a high Level at a top college level.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
I may be wrong, totally wrong ( been known to happen ) and I'm probably in a small minority but I think the Combine is THE MOST OVERRATED OVERHYPED whatever it is --EVER.
Speed, strength, reach, jumping ability don't measure a "Football Player "..! I'll take the kid that plays w/ his heart and played 3-4 years at a high Level at a top college level.


I disagree. I think it is a useful scouting tool. It's the only time where you can compare all the prospects side by side in the same setting. Sometimes a prospect isn't in a good situation to put up big numbers with his college team and would be overlooked because of it. For example, Mike Wallace/Chris Johnson had their stock go way up after the combine a few years back. Obviously watching game tape is huge, but the combine can be a nice tool as well to help with scouting. No GM/scout in the NFL is dumb enough to only use the combine as way to grade prospects, but rather use it as one of many aspects in getting the whole picture on a draft prospect.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
I may be wrong, totally wrong ( been known to happen ) and I'm probably in a small minority but I think the Combine is THE MOST OVERRATED OVERHYPED whatever it is --EVER.
Speed, strength, reach, jumping ability don't measure a "Football Player "..! I'll take the kid that plays w/ his heart and played 3-4 years at a high Level at a top college level.
Im with you. I've always felt that way but to me it's always signified the start of the football offseason so I get stoked Cool for it!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I may be wrong, totally wrong ( been known to happen ) and I'm probably in a small minority but I think the Combine is THE MOST OVERRATED OVERHYPED whatever it is --EVER.
Speed, strength, reach, jumping ability don't measure a "Football Player "..! I'll take the kid that plays w/ his heart and played 3-4 years at a high Level at a top college level.


I disagree. I think it is a useful scouting tool. It's the only time where you can compare all the prospects side by side in the same setting. Sometimes a prospect isn't in a good situation to put up big numbers with his college team and would be overlooked because of it. For example, Mike Wallace/Chris Johnson had their stock go way up after the combine a few years back. Obviously watching game tape is huge, but the combine can be a nice tool as well to help with scouting. No GM/scout in the NFL is dumb enough to only use the combine as way to grade prospects, but rather use it as one of many aspects in getting the whole picture on a draft prospect.
The problem is they're in shorts.

It's a tool, I'll give ya that much

I remember Chris Johnson always being a late 1st or early 2nd projection after the football season was done.

Mike Wallace didn't go up that far did it?

He was still a 3rd

There's been a lot of Mike Mamula's, Vernon Golston's and Larry English's etc, etc who are put in round 1 after looking great at the combine and then there are some guys who fall because of the combine who end up being pro bowlers.

It's fun because it starts the football offseason buts it more like watching and evaluating a track event than anything else.
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
I may be wrong, totally wrong ( been known to happen ) and I'm probably in a small minority but I think the Combine is THE MOST OVERRATED OVERHYPED whatever it is --EVER.
Speed, strength, reach, jumping ability don't measure a "Football Player "..! I'll take the kid that plays w/ his heart and played 3-4 years at a high Level at a top college level.


We agree on this ( and scotch). It's the most over hyped Promotional tool the nfl has. I believe more mistakes happen here because of how people look and test vs how they can actually play football.

All the seniors have already been measured and weighed by now and the only real value it to see how tall or how much the underclassmen are

For our team the free agency period will be far more important to next years success as non top 15 draft picks other than Morris have any meaningful impact on the team in the first year. I think the draft is immensely important, but not in the year they are drafted but in years two and onward. That's why I'm excited to see amerson Thomas and rambo's continuing development and hope they are all keepers to solidify our defensive backfield.

I also heard chances now over 50% rak doesn't sign and gets a franchise or even transition tag. This means we will probably draft a potential replacement like a Dee Ford who Has fell in love with at the Sr bowl to let him develop his rookie year
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I may be wrong, totally wrong ( been known to happen ) and I'm probably in a small minority but I think the Combine is THE MOST OVERRATED OVERHYPED whatever it is --EVER.
Speed, strength, reach, jumping ability don't measure a "Football Player "..! I'll take the kid that plays w/ his heart and played 3-4 years at a high Level at a top college level.


We agree on this ( and scotch). It's the most over hyped Promotional tool the nfl has. I believe more mistakes happen here because of how people look and test vs how they can actually play football.

All the seniors have already been measured and weighed by now and the only real value it to see how tall or how much the underclassmen are

For our team the free agency period will be far more important to next years success as non top 15 draft picks other than Morris have any meaningful impact on the team in the first year. I think the draft is immensely important, but not in the year they are drafted but in years two and onward. That's why I'm excited to see amerson Thomas and rambo's continuing development and hope they are all keepers to solidify our defensive backfield.

I also heard chances now over 50% rak doesn't sign and gets a franchise or even transition tag. This means we will probably draft a potential replacement like a Dee Ford who Has fell in love with at the Sr bowl to let him develop his rookie year


Transition Tag..I was thinking about that also but teams are hesitant to use it cause the player gets so upset at the team.. Gets a top 10 average vs. top 5 and we get right to match any contract .
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooley & Czabe just spent a few minutes on the combine claiming it a waste of time and stating that teams would be better off not going and relying on just the film of players and the work their scouts did evaluating players through the college football season
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Last edited by turtle28 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I may be wrong, totally wrong ( been known to happen ) and I'm probably in a small minority but I think the Combine is THE MOST OVERRATED OVERHYPED whatever it is --EVER.
Speed, strength, reach, jumping ability don't measure a "Football Player "..! I'll take the kid that plays w/ his heart and played 3-4 years at a high Level at a top college level.


We agree on this ( and scotch). It's the most over hyped Promotional tool the nfl has. I believe more mistakes happen here because of how people look and test vs how they can actually play football.

All the seniors have already been measured and weighed by now and the only real value it to see how tall or how much the underclassmen are

For our team the free agency period will be far more important to next years success as non top 15 draft picks other than Morris have any meaningful impact on the team in the first year. I think the draft is immensely important, but not in the year they are drafted but in years two and onward. That's why I'm excited to see amerson Thomas and rambo's continuing development and hope they are all keepers to solidify our defensive backfield.
yeah! I think everyone is excited to see what Amerson, Thomas and Rambo can do this year and how Crawford, Minnifield, Gumbs and Robinson look as depth DBs

Quote:
I also heard chances now over 50% rak doesn't sign and gets a franchise or even transition tag. This means we will probably draft a potential replacement like a Dee Ford who Has fell in love with at the Sr bowl to let him develop his rookie year
ughh that'd be horrible! We have Brandon Jenkins for development and Rak's potential replacement if Rak is franchised and then won't re-sign long term after that
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Cooley & Czabe just spent a few minutes on the combine claiming it a waste of time and stating that teams would be better off not going and relying on just the film of players and the work their scouts did evaluating players through the college football season


I agree with them. I love the combine. But I think teams place too much into the combine rather than reviewing game film and relying on their scouts.

Yes - the combine puts all players in the same place in order to evaluate them against their peers.

Yes - the combine can allow you more access to the player to determine their psychological makeup (through the interview process).

But sometimes teams just ignore the body of work in their games in college and get overly enamored with a player based upon their combine. Mike Mamula comes to mind here. As does quite a few players who posted ridiculously fast 40 times and teams like the Raiders snatch them up 2-3 rounds too early just because they are fast.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Cooley & Czabe just spent a few minutes on the combine claiming it a waste of time and stating that teams would be better off not going and relying on just the film of players and the work their scouts did evaluating players through the college football season


I agree with them. I love the combine. But I think teams place too much into the combine rather than reviewing game film and relying on their scouts.

Yes - the combine puts all players in the same place in order to evaluate them against their peers.

Yes - the combine can allow you more access to the player to determine their psychological makeup (through the interview process).

But sometimes teams just ignore the body of work in their games in college and get overly enamored with a player based upon their combine. Mike Mamula comes to mind here. As does quite a few players who posted ridiculously fast 40 times and teams like the Raiders snatch them up 2-3 rounds too early just because they are fast.


I think the 40 time is the most overrated stat at the combine. I think the combine is a good tool see how big or small the players actually are... Height, weight, hand size. arm length, and strenght..etc. Game film should be the ultimate tool used to evaluate players!!
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Cooley & Czabe just spent a few minutes on the combine claiming it a waste of time and stating that teams would be better off not going and relying on just the film of players and the work their scouts did evaluating players through the college football season


I agree with them. I love the combine. But I think teams place too much into the combine rather than reviewing game film and relying on their scouts.

Yes - the combine puts all players in the same place in order to evaluate them against their peers.

Yes - the combine can allow you more access to the player to determine their psychological makeup (through the interview process).

But sometimes teams just ignore the body of work in their games in college and get overly enamored with a player based upon their combine. Mike Mamula comes to mind here. As does quite a few players who posted ridiculously fast 40 times and teams like the Raiders snatch them up 2-3 rounds too early just because they are fast.


Well, now that I've had time to ruminate..I think the biggest thing there might be the medical aspect.. Checking players that had injuries--are they recovered. Will they be a risk for re-injury if drafted.. Think
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AseLAGMydisldHE0Rl9kOGxPXzhPckREX3NQd0dQTGc&f=true&noheader=true&gid=3

I thought this was a good link provided by a FF poster in the Combine thread in the draft forum...
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Cooley & Czabe just spent a few minutes on the combine claiming it a waste of time and stating that teams would be better off not going and relying on just the film of players and the work their scouts did evaluating players through the college football season


I agree with them. I love the combine. But I think teams place too much into the combine rather than reviewing game film and relying on their scouts.

Yes - the combine puts all players in the same place in order to evaluate them against their peers.

Yes - the combine can allow you more access to the player to determine their psychological makeup (through the interview process).

But sometimes teams just ignore the body of work in their games in college and get overly enamored with a player based upon their combine. Mike Mamula comes to mind here. As does quite a few players who posted ridiculously fast 40 times and teams like the Raiders snatch them up 2-3 rounds too early just because they are fast.


Well, now that I've had time to ruminate..I think the biggest thing there might be the medical aspect.. Checking players that had injuries--are they recovered. Will they be a risk for re-injury if drafted.. Think
that or the interview process. Getting a chance to interview who they want and having so many guys there at one time is a good thing
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