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Simeon Rice Rips Jon Gruden
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81_80_39_28_10


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 2228
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are so many posters saying "Im sure Gruden's a nice guy. His players are just mad cause they are old and terrible now". Has anyone ever seen the Buc Training Camp on NFL Network? The guy is a complete and total d!ck.
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Greg_Jennings


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A tear just rolled down my cheek.
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torch1980


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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Location: Republic, PA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

81_80_39_28_10 wrote:
Why are so many posters saying "Im sure Gruden's a nice guy. His players are just mad cause they are old and terrible now". Has anyone ever seen the Buc Training Camp on NFL Network? The guy is a complete and total d!ck.


The same reason they praise Bill Parcells..they like coaches who are "tough nosed" I am all for discipline and acknowledgement but not belittling players and acting "tough" Keyshawn was screaming at gruden (as shown alot on epsn) and he didnt say nothing and just walked away and I saw gruden grab up a grown [inappropriate/removed] man, im sorry thats a brawl if he did that too me
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Senor Mortgage


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 2713
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread just confirms that most fans really don't understand how the day to day of football really works and just love things that sound cool like tough nosed/lived for football/dedicated to winning. The truth is that a big check magically making a terrible working environment worth it doesn't. Gruden is an example of why fans have unrealistic expectations of athletes and treat them as inhuman football robots rather than real people with real concerns. Even the Parcells of the world are fair and compassionate at times with their players. Belicheck (sp) routinely jokes with his players on the sidelines. Gruden was completely unfair and cut players/put them in the dog house routinely, especially QBs.

People siding with Gruden are either myopic fans at best or just plain don't get it at worst. The quote about Chris Simms suck out the most. You know why? Simms was a mediocre QB at best but he played hard and teammates could trust him to bring it. The truth in on NFL teams, players care about each other and "go to battle" for each other. They don't purely analyze players on whether they are pro-bowlers or fill-in guys. The fact is if the players can't rely on the coach to have their backs, how can they afford to give it their all. Kiffin was the only reason the Bucs didn't implode and that was because the defense cared about Kiffin and were willing to play for him.

But go ahead. Live in fantasy land with you're Madden football robots and beg for the wacko dictator to say all the awesome things that sound great but don't hold up in the real world.
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neutral1


Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1004
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good post.

No one in the Bucs org seems to have liked Gruden. Guy really sounds like a real expletive. Coaches like Gruden usually can turn a team around quickly by getting the most out of players for a year or two, but then the act gets old and players just don't get motivated after a while.
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Cincy_Jungle


Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 615
Location: The Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
This thread just confirms that most fans really don't understand how the day to day of football really works and just love things that sound cool like tough nosed/lived for football/dedicated to winning. The truth is that a big check magically making a terrible working environment worth it doesn't. Gruden is an example of why fans have unrealistic expectations of athletes and treat them as inhuman football robots rather than real people with real concerns. Even the Parcells of the world are fair and compassionate at times with their players. Belicheck (sp) routinely jokes with his players on the sidelines. Gruden was completely unfair and cut players/put them in the dog house routinely, especially QBs.

People siding with Gruden are either myopic fans at best or just plain don't get it at worst. The quote about Chris Simms suck out the most. You know why? Simms was a mediocre QB at best but he played hard and teammates could trust him to bring it. The truth in on NFL teams, players care about each other and "go to battle" for each other. They don't purely analyze players on whether they are pro-bowlers or fill-in guys. The fact is if the players can't rely on the coach to have their backs, how can they afford to give it their all. Kiffin was the only reason the Bucs didn't implode and that was because the defense cared about Kiffin and were willing to play for him.

But go ahead. Live in fantasy land with you're Madden football robots and beg for the wacko dictator to say all the awesome things that sound great but don't hold up in the real world.


Good post. I was on the fence on Jon Gruden but now... He looks a complete - Cheney!!!
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boohoo. An NFL coach has to make tough decisions and that's what Gruden does. The criticism for his constantly wanting to change Quarterbacks in unfair, when the guy making the front office decisions repeatedly turns down Gruden's attempts to draft a young franchise Quarterback. So Tampa have been stuck going after small-time guys. Half of them should thank Gruden for giving them a chance. When players get injured, sometimes they outlive their usefulness. They can act like they're being treated unjust all they want. It's a business. With so many players wanting out of deals for bigger contracts, and holding out, I don't want to hear about how wrong it is for teams to cut players. Give me a break. When one guy gets cut, that's an opportunity for another player to step in and be given a chance.

All these guys who were supposed to be star players are whining when Gruden does something they don't like. Michael Clayton deserves to be just a backup. He drops balls all the time, and has never been a fundamentally sound player(dude can sure block though). Sorry that Gruden isn't just going to give you the job. Jeff Garcia played like crap this year behind one of Tampa Bay's best lines they have had in recent memory. He deserved to be benched. Simeone Rice was never anything more than a quick pass rusher, who did nothing against the run. When he started to decline, he became pretty much useless. He also was injury prone. Gruden should have had him cut earlier.

You know it wasn't too long ago when the stories were about how Tom Coughlin's teams hated him, and Tiki Barber was talking crap about him. See how that turned out? I'm sorry, but these are just the words of players who disagree with the coach. Maybe he could have treated his players better personally, but guys complaining about getting cut or benched are crybabies. That's how it works. If you're not good enough see ya. I'm sure Julius Jones still thinks he should have been starting over Marion Barber, that doesn't mean we should listen to anything negatively he says about the Cowboys.
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Rivers2GatesTD


Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 6382
Location: San Diego
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steelcurtain29 wrote:
boo hoo!

SOMEBODY CALL THE WAAAAAAAMBULENCE!!!


Rolling Eyes

dude was on the downfall anyway. If he's so great, why didn't anyone else pick him up? Confused


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Senor Mortgage


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
Boohoo. An NFL coach has to make tough decisions and that's what Gruden does. The criticism for his constantly wanting to change Quarterbacks in unfair, when the guy making the front office decisions repeatedly turns down Gruden's attempts to draft a young franchise Quarterback. So Tampa have been stuck going after small-time guys. Half of them should thank Gruden for giving them a chance. When players get injured, sometimes they outlive their usefulness. They can act like they're being treated unjust all they want. It's a business. With so many players wanting out of deals for bigger contracts, and holding out, I don't want to hear about how wrong it is for teams to cut players. Give me a break. When one guy gets cut, that's an opportunity for another player to step in and be given a chance.

All these guys who were supposed to be star players are whining when Gruden does something they don't like. Michael Clayton deserves to be just a backup. He drops balls all the time, and has never been a fundamentally sound player(dude can sure block though). Sorry that Gruden isn't just going to give you the job. Jeff Garcia played like crap this year behind one of Tampa Bay's best lines they have had in recent memory. He deserved to be benched. Simeone Rice was never anything more than a quick pass rusher, who did nothing against the run. When he started to decline, he became pretty much useless. He also was injury prone. Gruden should have had him cut earlier.

You know it wasn't too long ago when the stories were about how Tom Coughlin's teams hated him, and Tiki Barber was talking crap about him. See how that turned out? I'm sorry, but these are just the words of players who disagree with the coach. Maybe he could have treated his players better personally, but guys complaining about getting cut or benched are crybabies. That's how it works. If you're not good enough see ya. I'm sure Julius Jones still thinks he should have been starting over Marion Barber, that doesn't mean we should listen to anything negatively he says about the Cowboys.


Yeah and the one year Coughlin lightened up a bit is the one where his team took it to the next level and won rather than getting fired. Again you'd understand it if your every worked for a truly bad boss, one who is tough to be tough, never fair, always demeaning, randomly firing people for no real reason. The fact you drive a nicer car (multiple), drink more expensive liquor at more expensive clubs, live in a more expensive house doesn't change terrible working conditions, especially in a job where you go home physically beat up. Theres a reason the team literally fell apart the moment Kiffin left. Theres a reason everyone under the sun is going out of their way to blast a coach that did win them the superbowl. Tiki wasn't half as critical with Coughlin as these Tampa players are. Link me the quotes where ex Parcells players ripped him once gone. Again being the bad guy doesn't mean you have to be a terrible human being with no personal skills.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
Theres a reason the team literally fell apart the moment Kiffin left.


What? Are you talking about when he just left to go to Tennessee?

Senor Mortgage wrote:
Theres a reason everyone under the sun is going out of their way to blast a coach that did win them the superbowl. Tiki wasn't half as critical with Coughlin as these Tampa players are. Link me the quotes where ex Parcells players ripped him once gone. Again being the bad guy doesn't mean you have to be a terrible human being with no personal skills.


Well, all I know is Derrick Brooks has done more for the Tampa Bay franchise than Michael Clayton, Jeff Garcia, Chris Simms, and Simeon Rice combined, and I haven't heard him coming out bashing Gruden. I'm not saying Gruden doesn't have his flaws, but these players criticizing him all likely have agendas(especially Rice, what a joke). And it would not surprise me if these descriptions are just a bit exaggerated. Also, Gruden isn't the only coach that yells at players, seriously.

Also, when did Gruden randomly fire someone for no reason?
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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Location: Houston
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
This thread just confirms that most fans really don't understand how the day to day of football really works and just love things that sound cool like tough nosed/lived for football/dedicated to winning. The truth is that a big check magically making a terrible working environment worth it doesn't. Gruden is an example of why fans have unrealistic expectations of athletes and treat them as inhuman football robots rather than real people with real concerns. Even the Parcells of the world are fair and compassionate at times with their players. Belicheck (sp) routinely jokes with his players on the sidelines. Gruden was completely unfair and cut players/put them in the dog house routinely, especially QBs.

People siding with Gruden are either myopic fans at best or just plain don't get it at worst. The quote about Chris Simms suck out the most. You know why? Simms was a mediocre QB at best but he played hard and teammates could trust him to bring it. The truth in on NFL teams, players care about each other and "go to battle" for each other. They don't purely analyze players on whether they are pro-bowlers or fill-in guys. The fact is if the players can't rely on the coach to have their backs, how can they afford to give it their all. Kiffin was the only reason the Bucs didn't implode and that was because the defense cared about Kiffin and were willing to play for him.

But go ahead. Live in fantasy land with you're Madden football robots and beg for the wacko dictator to say all the awesome things that sound great but don't hold up in the real world.


is that u simeon?? or just some other bitter football player, or fan, whatever, that can't take heat? i think u need to get picked up on the waahmbulance as well...
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Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-Durden wrote:

Now one thing that makes me think about all that Gruden's episode with the Buccaneers, is that maybe, just maybe, some players were unhappy about him and plotted against Gruden.
I still find it strange the way the Buccaneers declined in the end of the season.



And if this is anywhere near the truth then these players should be ashamed to wear a uniform,and be kicked out of the NFL if it was true.
Also 1 thing I've never heard about Gruden is that he is not afraid to tell his players what he thinks of them.They may not like what he says but never heard of him not saying it to their face.
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Keleth


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
They don't purely analyze players on whether they are pro-bowlers or fill-in guys. The fact is if the players can't rely on the coach to have their backs, how can they afford to give it their all.


So are you saying if he's a nice guy then a player shouldn't be cut or whatever if he doesn't perform.
Some players "all" is not up to NFL standards whether they like it or not.
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ninerminer49


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
And if this is anywhere near the truth then these players should be ashamed to wear a uniform,and be kicked out of the NFL if it was true.
Also 1 thing I've never heard about Gruden is that he is not afraid to tell his players what he thinks of them.They may not like what he says but never heard of him not saying it to their face.

You've never had a horrible boss have you? Everyone in this thread must never have any complaints about anything and you just go about your lives completely oblivious to the fact that some of the people in the world aren't good, honest people. At least Simeon Rice had the decency to wait until Gruden was fired to come out and speak. If he didn't really think he was treated unfairly, why would he say something a couple years down the road. You must all have it drilled in your heads that coaches are all knowing and the players are cry babies. Just because there are players who complain to the media too much about everything, doesn't mean all of them do.
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therealdeal


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, how some people say "These players make too much money to whine"


Money is just something extra to them.. They've had money for years now.. They'll have money until they die.

When they have money and they're set, they're not worrying about money. They want to go somewhere everyday, somewhere they love, somewhere they like to do what they do, have fun... Live their life.


Just because they have money, doesn't give anyone and their mama an excuse to treat those human beings like crap as if their money is their protection and their feelings.

Unless you've all hung around actual football players and see how they act/react/talk about the average everyday topics, you'll never realize how AVERAGE these guys really are.

Gruden wasn't/isn't a man. He's a power hungry, ego driven coach who thinks he can say and do what he wants, and thinks just because hes the coach and the player has money, they shouldn't be affected by it..

Wow
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