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Simeon Rice Rips Jon Gruden
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HY7


Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 1186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
This thread just confirms that most fans really don't understand how the day to day of football really works and just love things that sound cool like tough nosed/lived for football/dedicated to winning. The truth is that a big check magically making a terrible working environment worth it doesn't. Gruden is an example of why fans have unrealistic expectations of athletes and treat them as inhuman football robots rather than real people with real concerns. Even the Parcells of the world are fair and compassionate at times with their players. Belicheck (sp) routinely jokes with his players on the sidelines. Gruden was completely unfair and cut players/put them in the dog house routinely, especially QBs.

People siding with Gruden are either myopic fans at best or just plain don't get it at worst. The quote about Chris Simms suck out the most. You know why? Simms was a mediocre QB at best but he played hard and teammates could trust him to bring it. The truth in on NFL teams, players care about each other and "go to battle" for each other. They don't purely analyze players on whether they are pro-bowlers or fill-in guys. The fact is if the players can't rely on the coach to have their backs, how can they afford to give it their all. Kiffin was the only reason the Bucs didn't implode and that was because the defense cared about Kiffin and were willing to play for him.

But go ahead. Live in fantasy land with you're Madden football robots and beg for the wacko dictator to say all the awesome things that sound great but don't hold up in the real world.



Great post; you are in-tune with the game at a fundamental level. Gruden simply lacked class.
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Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 3169
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninerminer49 wrote:

You've never had a horrible boss have you? Everyone in this thread must never have any complaints about anything and you just go about your lives completely oblivious to the fact that some of the people in the world aren't good, honest people.


You cannot compare everdays peoples normal jobs to an NFL players job.
An NFL player (a big % of them anyway) could tell their bosses to stick it and walk away and never have to worry about feeding the family etc.
How many of us normal people can do that ?

ninerminer49 wrote:

At least Simeon Rice had the decency to wait until Gruden was fired to come out and speak. If he didn't really think he was treated unfairly, why would he say something a couple years down the road.


And waiting until Gruden was fired shows how classy he was ?
Go to the person you have a problem with and tell him the problem,if that doesn't work go over his head.
Or was it the fact he deserved to be cut and knew he would struggle finding another team if they cut him due to complaining that he didn't say anything to Grudens face.

Look at the Giants and Coughlin that was all done behind closed doors and probably the right way and look what happened there.
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torch1980


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 356
Location: Republic, PA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is this obsession with Gruden being this great coach? Lets see his record with the bucs was medicore after the superbowl at best

Yet dungy has the NFL record for the most consecutive 12 plus wins and superbowl
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ninerminer49


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3090
Location: California
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
You cannot compare everdays peoples normal jobs to an NFL players job.
An NFL player (a big % of them anyway) could tell their bosses to stick it and walk away and never have to worry about feeding the family etc.
How many of us normal people can do that ?

This is where you are wrong. Just because they make tons of money does not make the situation any different. The players are there to do a job and most of them actually enjoy what they do for a living. When a boss is hired that inhibits their joy for the game, that isn't right. Also, when multiple players have the same feelings as Simeon Rice, it makes me wonder how bad Gruden really was. The coaches make just as much money as the players, so what makes them so special? They bail on out jobs all the time to pursue other opportunities. There is no reason to act as if Simeon is on a different level than Gruden.

Keleth wrote:

And waiting until Gruden was fired shows how classy he was ?
Go to the person you have a problem with and tell him the problem,if that doesn't work go over his head.
Or was it the fact he deserved to be cut and knew he would struggle finding another team if they cut him due to complaining that he didn't say anything to Grudens face.

Look at the Giants and Coughlin that was all done behind closed doors. and probably the right way and look what happened there.

Because he avoided calling the coach, the team did not have to face media problems and other assorted things that come with scrutinizing a coach. He waited until Gruden was out in the open to call him out because he knew it would only affect Gruden and would not cast a shadow on the franchise. Last I checked, players on the Giants called out Coughlin mid-season, so I wouldn't use them as an example.
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Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninerminer49 wrote:

This is where you are wrong. Just because they make tons of money does not make the situation any different. The players are there to do a job and most of them actually enjoy what they do for a living. When a boss is hired that inhibits their joy for the game, that isn't right. Also, when multiple players have the same feelings as Simeon Rice, it makes me wonder how bad Gruden really was. The coaches make just as much money as the players, so what makes them so special? They bail on out jobs all the time to pursue other opportunities. There is no reason to act as if Simeon is on a different level than Gruden.


Yes players play for joy (some of them anyway) but in what way do you mean a coach inhibits their joy for the game ?
As in he doesn't give them enough of the ball ?
He plays them out of position ?
He is nasty to them ?

I doubt many coaches make the same money as players except for a few exceptions.
You still can't compare it to everyday jobs.
Who on this forum could turn round today and say "stick this job" and not have to worry about not collecting another paycheck ?

Funny how the Cowboys under Parcells hated him yet look at the teams "attitude" and what it is doing to them since he left.
Funny how the Dolphin players don't seem to have a problem with him but maybe its more to do with the type of people they are more than the type of person Parcells is.

ninerminer49 wrote:

Because he avoided calling the coach, the team did not have to face media problems and other assorted things that come with scrutinizing a coach. He waited until Gruden was out in the open to call him out because he knew it would only affect Gruden and would not cast a shadow on the franchise. Last I checked, players on the Giants called out Coughlin mid-season, so I wouldn't use them as an example.


So waiting until him calling out a coach when it would have no affect on him shows his backbone ?
Call them out to their face when it matters not leave it until a couple of years down the road.
Also he seems to be joining a crowd of players calling Gruden out as in follow the herd mentality.
I'm not defending Grudens personality,he is a good coach that's it.However I certainly wouldn't stoop to defend a player having a crying whine either.
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snapp73


Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 3230
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this in the Bucs Forum when this topic was brought up, so I'll post it here also.




Quote:
In a Tuesday interview with Sirius NFL Radio, former Buccaneers defensive end Simeon Rice told Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan of Movin’ The Chains that Rice believes former Bucs coach Jon Gruden is a “scumbag.”
“You get what you deserve,” Rice said. “That’s what Jon said. He got it now. Everybody gets what they deserve. . . .
“You look at what he did when Chris [Simms] damn near died on the field he wanted to release him right when he got injured.


It's the NFL, it's a business, a ton of guys get hurt like this and get released. Even though Simms should have been released he wasn't, and even though we had a total of 5qbs on the roster and should have cut him before the preseason, we didn't, we gave him a chance to show his skills in the preseason so he'd have a glimmer of hope of finding another place to play, I think it worked out pretty well for Simms though, he landed in Tennessee I believe. But nobody thinks about that.


Quote:
I get hurt, my shoulder’s torn off the bone. This dude releases me.



Again, how many teams wanted to sign him after his shoulder was messed up? 2, Bronco's wanted him at LE, and he didn't do anything, and the Colts with Dungy, and Dungy cut him, but he ain't sayin nuthin bad about Dungy, But we are supposed to keep im cause he couldn't pass a physical? What kind of loyalty would that show? We'll keep you and pay you a ton of money just because you are hurt, so we'll be hurt at DE because we can't bring in someone because your gonna take up cap and a roster spot.


Quote:
You know what I mean? I’m your guy. The list goes on. Keenan McCardell, that situation was a debacle.



Kennan wanted a bigger contract and only had a year left of being a legit target at his age.


Quote:
Keyshawn Johnson, another situation [that] was a debacle.



Keyshawn was a joke, if you've never heard the story about how he got Sapp to get management to bring him in, then you prolly don't know what I'm talking about, if not, look it up, read it up, whatever.


Quote:
Joey Galloway, which was his man, was in the dog house all year because he got injured, broke his ankle or whatever.



When you get hurt and somebody else comes in and steps up and does better than you have, and your around 37 years old, what do you expect? It's a business, and they fire coaches for not performing, so why not players, hurt or not hurt, Galloway isn't Tom Brady?


Quote:
Brad Johnson, that situation was bad. Brings Jeff Garcia in here,
oh, he’s going to change things. I helped recruit him [and he] released me, kept Jeff and then put him in the dog house.



Brad was losing it, look at how well he did in Dallas this year? Not too mention he had a large contract from McKay, as for Garcia, look at his track record, he's only fit in well in SF and Philly, and he bolted on Philly to come here, and he was cut in SF. What'd he do in Cleveland and Detroit that was so special? Exactly, we gave him a chance to revive a career, and what does he do, gets angry and wants a new contract after 1 year, yet we're supposed to show him loyalty and not act like a business, when he's tryin to be all business?



Quote:
Gets rid of Brian Greise, brings him, starts a controversy. It was chaotic. I’m giving you facts.”


Obviously Simeon wasn't thinking long term, cause look where we are right now? Luckily we have a starter still on our roster, because 2 QB's on our roster were set to hit FA this year.

Quote:

And then Rice gave opinions.
“How I feel personally? I could tell you that, too. I think he’s a scumbag,” Rice said. “I think he’s a scumbag personally. That’s when he’s telling you one thing and… You know what he told me? ‘Simeon you’ll be here in the next five years.’ I got injured [and] this man’s never said one word to me. I won a Super Bowl for you. I got 13 sacks, 12, 15 every year for you. I balled. I got injured [and] you let me go like it was nothing.




If anybody knows anything about Simeon Rice, they know, he's not the most professional athlete there is, heck Gruden even suspended him once. Sounds to me like someone is sour that he got released when he got a serious injury. It's a business, he should know that, instead of just coming and running his mouth about a guy.


Also, heres' an interview with former Bucs Offensive Coordinator Bill Muir, I do think it's important to know the Bucs hired him before Gruden was brought in. So he wasn't one of the guys Gruden brought to Tampa with him.


http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/view/5165
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Irish 11


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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 8215
Location: Steelers Nation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same radio show had Tim Brown on later that week. Ryan asked Brown about Rice's comments and Brown simply stated that their lockers were next door during Brown's last season. He went on to say that Simeon Rice was the most selfish player he'd ever encountered during his time in the NFL.

Just a bit more perspective on this tempest in a teapot.
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