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Tom Cable and the OL Problems

 
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Jazzaloha


Joined: 20 Nov 2013
Posts: 1120
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: Tom Cable and the OL Problems Reply with quote

I'm starting this because one of the frustrating aspects of the Super Bowl--probably the only frustrating thing, actually--was the OL penalties. Like some of the previous games, the penalties negated some fairly good plays (runs), too.

I know the OL has had injuries during the year, so I can't really blame them or Cable for that. And I should say when they got back to full strength, they did a much better job, but they still weren't as consistent as they should be--i.e., getting these type of penalties or not handling the pass rush/blitz (as in the NFC championship) so well.

So what's the reason for this? Are the players the problem? Okung and Unger are the all-pros, and they both had penalties on Sunday (Okung, more than one if I recall correctly). Then again, when it comes to penalties, I tend to hold coaches--the position coach and HC. Is coaching the problem? How good a coach is Tom Cable? (I never thought highly of him when he was an HC at the Raiders.)

Does the fact that they mix-matched the line, even when everyone was healthy, part of the problem?

Part of the reason I'm raising this issue is because I really think the OL is a top priority going into next season. For one thing, Wilson can't get popped as many times as he did this past season, and he shouldn't be running for his life as much as he did. Also, I'm going to go crazy if these penalties--especially the big play killing ones--continue into next season.
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redforman


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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Location: Pointe Place, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Cable is a good coach. He shouldn't have to be working with a converted D lineman like Sweezy and a below average talent like McQuistan. It's also not his fault Carpenter whiffs on blocks in pass protection. He's just too slow. I really hope they consider giving Bailey a shot at starting LG and drafting another guard (maybe Yankey) early and build up that spot. They need to limit the pressure from the interior so Wilson can step up in the pocket and not run for his life every other play. Sweezy and Carpenter can be solid depth. Or even cut Carp because he's not playing to his contract and draft another guy to develop later on and have Bowie/LJP be guard depth.
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Jazzaloha


Joined: 20 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think explains the penalties, though?
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TheDudeAbides


Joined: 19 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the penalties come from a few basic sources.

1) When you get beat, you hold. Happens constantly, especially with Okung. His guy will *rarely* get to the QB because Okung's guy is either beaten or being held, heh.
2) Russell Wilson. When your QB is where he's supposed to be, you block your guy away from that spot (which is behind you) - simple enough. When your QB is running around for his life, you end up blocking a guy for 2 seconds, then see your QB out of the corner of your eye, outside the hashes and your immediate reflex is to hold.
3) Once you've been getting beaten, you start jumping early to compensate.


I think an improved OLine, across the board, is the simple solution. I think we're a year away, to be honest. Next year's line?
Okung, Bowie?, Unger, ???, Bailey?. I don't know who's in the draft at OG and OT, but McQ, Carp and Sweezy are 2nd string at best who've been starting for this team. I can live with Giacomini, but would prefer to see him as a backup as well.

We nail a couple of draft picks and this offense could be ridiculous. I don't think the universe gives our offensive skill guys enough credit for doing what they do behind that wall of injury-prone rice paper. Let's see if JS/PC and Cable can improve their OL scouting and land us some winners this May.
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sirensong


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talent level isnt nearly high enough. Plain and simple, I think Cable is great OL coach but a terrible OL talent evaluator. They need to invest quality draft picks in the OL and stop with the below average band aids like McQ, Sweezy and Carp.

Okung and Unger are the only real talent we have on the OL. Breno is average at best but you can defenitly get by with him when you such an elusive QB and you gotta love his grit.

Okung takes some penalties when he gets beat but hes just far too good and consistent for it to be a real problem.

The guard play is the real problem, way way too much pressure from the inside. Those guys hold like crazy because they get beat regularly.
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirensong wrote:
Talent level isnt nearly high enough. Plain and simple, I think Cable is great OL coach but a terrible OL talent evaluator.


Boom. This is all that really needs to be said. Okung is pre-Cable. Unger is pre-Cable. Outside of that, who has he coached up to be a good player? He has a great talent in Alvin Bailey slapping him in the face and he can't even manage to play him until the very end of the year (and even then he was only an extra lineman).

I really don't think Cable is that good of an OLine coach, I just think he's a good motivator and coach in general. He failed on the only 1st rounder we brought in and trusts his abilities way too much with these late rounders.

This team needs to add talent on the OLine this season.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
sirensong wrote:
Talent level isnt nearly high enough. Plain and simple, I think Cable is great OL coach but a terrible OL talent evaluator.


Boom. This is all that really needs to be said. Okung is pre-Cable. Unger is pre-Cable. Outside of that, who has he coached up to be a good player? He has a great talent in Alvin Bailey slapping him in the face and he can't even manage to play him until the very end of the year (and even then he was only an extra lineman).

I really don't think Cable is that good of an OLine coach, I just think he's a good motivator and coach in general. He failed on the only 1st rounder we brought in and trusts his abilities way too much with these late rounders.

This team needs to add talent on the OLine this season.
I think the key piece missing is Cable's ability as a talent evaluator, and you and I have talked about this. He's a good coach, he's bad at evaluating talent. Schneider needs to either stop trusting him and make the picks himself or bring in someone who can actually evaluate OL talent.
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Jazzaloha


Joined: 20 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the feedback, guys. I don't really have much to add, as I can't really evaluate offensive linemen. (Having said that, is Unger really all-pro caliber player? Can someone help me see that? I have no idea why I'd question that--maybe because the line seems to have so much trouble overall, and I tend to thing really good centers improve the overall line play.)

Anyway, I don't want to go through another season with these OL problems. And if Wilson gets hurt--as in end of the season or career threatening injury--because they didn't address this problem properly, that will really upset me.
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SHONUFF


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of these holding calls have to do with Wilson scrambling as someone said... I'd much rather see a hold than Wilson hit and possibly hurt.. IMO we really need to draft a prospect that can swing out to left tackle, I'm not a fan of giving okung a huge deal with his injury history.
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