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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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 Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bonanza23 wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | Cite specifically your proof that Graham Spanier and Gary Schultz (it was their decision) chose not to go to the police because of the football program, and not because of any personal relationships with Sandusky, $$ from the Second Mile, willful ignorance, or for their own personal gain.
Show me the proof that these men did it to "protect football." I eagerly await that citation.
Is it the 4 e-mails exchanged that don't include the word "football" or "program," or "reputation," or is it just a news narrative saying so? |
Regardless of whether or not they wanted to protect the football program, it all comes down to money. That's it. Money comes before the welfare of human beings. I mean our countries government is probably the biggest example of this. They are essentially allowing companies to "molest" our welfare and then covering it up in the name of money, so why would anyone expect Penn State to do anything different. |
I agree with you but that's not the point here.
There is absolutely no proof, ZERO, ZIP, NADA that the administrative officials chose not to turn Sandusky in to the police because of the Penn State football program. Absolutely none.
Until you can do that, and cite a specific NCAA rule that was broken within the timeframe of the NCAA statute of limitations (4 years unless involving player eligibility or a repeated pattern of broken rules) then there is absolutely no reason or basis at all for the NCAA to hand down a single penalty against the Penn State football team, or any student-athlete. Period. |
No I agree with you. I've read both the grand jury testimony and the entire Freeh report and there isn't anything in there that justifies any punishment from the NCAA. |
You seriously read all 267 pages?  |
I read through all of it. Some parts I skimmed through, but I read the entire thing. I was interested mostly in Paterno and the administrator's parts in this because I think Paterno is being unfairly criticized by the media. Obviously not a lot of people read it or the grand jury testimony and just looked at the summary and listened to what the rest of the media wants to report. |
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Dracula58
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2689
Location: Columbus Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Love the term "football-first culture" being used with PSU...Alabama has it Auburn has it, Ohio State has it, Boise State has it, USC has it Texas has it and on and on...And if you think there is no wrong doing going on on those campuses then you are a fool...Wish people would quit acting like this is something new.
So PSU held it's progam up but they held much more important things up as well for the good of many...Sandusky was going to be what he is regardless of the PSU football program. |
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Bonanza23
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 5408
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BigD88 wrote: |
It really isn't THAT long once you get through the table of contents, his BS summary all hedged on his "reasonable conclusion," etc.
In all honesty it was a very disappointing report. Hardly any truly new information besides 4 vague e-mails and he didn't even speak to anyone in the e-mails to gauge their meaning.
I thought their were potential bombshells that should have been investigated more. Like, for example, Spanier alerted PSU legal counsel Wendell Courtney about the Sandusky issue in 2001 and asked how it should be handled. Then the next piece of info says that shortly thereafter, Wendell Courtney was hired to an executive position in the Second Mile. Yet Freeh didn't investigate that at all - knowing that Courtney knew of Sandusky's acts, took a position of high power in his charity shortly after being alerted, and did absolutely nothing to limit Sandusky's access to kids, or alert authorities.
It seems like a lazy, pieced-together essay (you all remember those days where you had 3 pages and needed 5 for the assignment), slapped with some commentary on top of it, and then handed in. A total waste of $6.5million and everyone knew that 95% of the questions would be about Paterno and football so no one ever bothered to look into anything else regarding Sandusky's charity, money trials between the Second Mile & PSU, etc.
I was very disappointed. And now even more disappointed that his commentary all hedged by "reasonable to conclude" is being cited by the NCAA for their lack of an investigation, and being taken as fact when not one person involved in the e-mails (besides Spanier 1 week before the release of the report) was spoken to. |
Here is the download link if anybody else wants to read it. Yeah I don't know that's an awful long read if you ask me, and I personally don't have the time to read it. So unfortunately I don't have the authority to comment one way or the other if there is proof that Paterno and his inferiors covered this up. The only thing I know is somebody should have stopped this a WHOLE lot earlier. If I saw nothing was getting done, you can darn well know I would call anybody I could until I got results. ESPECIALLY IF I HAD PATERNO'S POWER. Unless of course I had something to hide.
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BigD88 wrote: | | Bonanza23 wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | Cite specifically your proof that Graham Spanier and Gary Schultz (it was their decision) chose not to go to the police because of the football program, and not because of any personal relationships with Sandusky, $$ from the Second Mile, willful ignorance, or for their own personal gain.
Show me the proof that these men did it to "protect football." I eagerly await that citation.
Is it the 4 e-mails exchanged that don't include the word "football" or "program," or "reputation," or is it just a news narrative saying so? |
Regardless of whether or not they wanted to protect the football program, it all comes down to money. That's it. Money comes before the welfare of human beings. I mean our countries government is probably the biggest example of this. They are essentially allowing companies to "molest" our welfare and then covering it up in the name of money, so why would anyone expect Penn State to do anything different. |
I agree with you but that's not the point here.
There is absolutely no proof, ZERO, ZIP, NADA that the administrative officials chose not to turn Sandusky in to the police because of the Penn State football program. Absolutely none.
Until you can do that, and cite a specific NCAA rule that was broken within the timeframe of the NCAA statute of limitations (4 years unless involving player eligibility or a repeated pattern of broken rules) then there is absolutely no reason or basis at all for the NCAA to hand down a single penalty against the Penn State football team, or any student-athlete. Period. |
No I agree with you. I've read both the grand jury testimony and the entire Freeh report and there isn't anything in there that justifies any punishment from the NCAA. |
You seriously read all 267 pages? |
It really isn't THAT long once you get through the table of contents, his BS summary all hedged on his "reasonable conclusion," etc.
In all honesty it was a very disappointing report. Hardly any truly new information besides 4 vague e-mails and he didn't even speak to anyone in the e-mails to gauge their meaning.
I thought their were potential bombshells that should have been investigated more. Like, for example, Spanier alerted PSU legal counsel Wendell Courtney about the Sandusky issue in 2001 and asked how it should be handled. Then the next piece of info says that shortly thereafter, Wendell Courtney was hired to an executive position in the Second Mile. Yet Freeh didn't investigate that at all - knowing that Courtney knew of Sandusky's acts, took a position of high power in his charity shortly after being alerted, and did absolutely nothing to limit Sandusky's access to kids, or alert authorities.
It seems like a lazy, pieced-together essay (you all remember those days where you had 3 pages and needed 5 for the assignment), slapped with some commentary on top of it, and then handed in. A total waste of $6.5million and everyone knew that 95% of the questions would be about Paterno and football so no one ever bothered to look into anything else regarding Sandusky's charity, money trials between the Second Mile & PSU, etc.
I was very disappointed. And now even more disappointed that his commentary all hedged by "reasonable to conclude" is being cited by the NCAA for their lack of an investigation, and being taken as fact when not one person involved in the e-mails (besides Spanier 1 week before the release of the report) was spoken to. |
Yeah totally agree. I think we are on the same page here because we actually read into the situation instead of basing our opinions on what the media has reported. I skimmed through most of the summary though. I really just wanted to see the actual evidence and where he was getting these "reasonable conclusions", which were mostly conjecture. |
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Bonanza23 wrote: |
Here is the download link if anybody else wants to read it. Yeah I don't know that's an awful long read if you ask me, and I personally don't have the time to read it. So unfortunately I don't have the authority to comment one way or the other if there is proof that Paterno and his inferiors covered this up. The only thing I know is somebody should have stopped this a WHOLE lot earlier. If I saw nothing was getting done, you can darn well know I would call anybody I could until I got results. ESPECIALLY IF I HAD PATERNO'S POWER. Unless of course I had something to hide. |
Why would you push so hard to get something done if you had no physical evidence yourself? The thing with Paterno is that he reported it to administrators and they reported it to the police. The police did an investigation and came away saying there was no evidence of child molestation. If you were Paterno, why would you push for something more to be done if you didn't have first-hand knowledge? Most people would figure that if the police investigated it and found no evidence, then, most likely, no wrong-doings occurred. |
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kitsnow
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1340
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Tomorrow you will be unhappy, but at least you will still have football sanctioned as it is. Just look at what USC is doing and don't be so sad. |
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mm6492
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 22288
Location: The Valley of Happiness
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I hope Sandusky gets the death penalty.
I'm not even gonna post my thoughts on this until later on, too pissed off and too many things to try to say.
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latinoaustino
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 5688
Location: The road is my home
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BigD88 wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | Cite specifically your proof that Graham Spanier and Gary Schultz (it was their decision) chose not to go to the police because of the football program, and not because of any personal relationships with Sandusky, $$ from the Second Mile, willful ignorance, or for their own personal gain.
Show me the proof that these men did it to "protect football." I eagerly await that citation.
Is it the 4 e-mails exchanged that don't include the word "football" or "program," or "reputation," or is it just a news narrative saying so? |
Regardless of whether or not they wanted to protect the football program, it all comes down to money. That's it. Money comes before the welfare of human beings. I mean our countries government is probably the biggest example of this. They are essentially allowing companies to "molest" our welfare and then covering it up in the name of money, so why would anyone expect Penn State to do anything different. |
I agree with you but that's not the point here.
There is absolutely no proof, ZERO, ZIP, NADA that the administrative officials chose not to turn Sandusky in to the police because of the Penn State football program. Absolutely none.
Until you can do that, and cite a specific NCAA rule that was broken within the timeframe of the NCAA statute of limitations (4 years unless involving player eligibility or a repeated pattern of broken rules) then there is absolutely no reason or basis at all for the NCAA to hand down a single penalty against the Penn State football team, or any student-athlete. Period. |
Yes there is. As much as this was about money you ignoring the fact the money came as a direct result of the success of the football program. The football program was the machine generating the money and publicity. I really can't believe you're arguing that there should be no penalty to the program.
My alma mater had a bit of a coverup issue with some basketball players sexually assaulting a girl and I was calling for the coach and program to be reprimanded by the university. As a result the entire athletic department administration got turned over as well as a number of people higher up at the university itself.
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Alterraun Verner and Scott Solomon |
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BigD88
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 3832
Location: Happy Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| latinoaustino wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | Cite specifically your proof that Graham Spanier and Gary Schultz (it was their decision) chose not to go to the police because of the football program, and not because of any personal relationships with Sandusky, $$ from the Second Mile, willful ignorance, or for their own personal gain.
Show me the proof that these men did it to "protect football." I eagerly await that citation.
Is it the 4 e-mails exchanged that don't include the word "football" or "program," or "reputation," or is it just a news narrative saying so? |
Regardless of whether or not they wanted to protect the football program, it all comes down to money. That's it. Money comes before the welfare of human beings. I mean our countries government is probably the biggest example of this. They are essentially allowing companies to "molest" our welfare and then covering it up in the name of money, so why would anyone expect Penn State to do anything different. |
I agree with you but that's not the point here.
There is absolutely no proof, ZERO, ZIP, NADA that the administrative officials chose not to turn Sandusky in to the police because of the Penn State football program. Absolutely none.
Until you can do that, and cite a specific NCAA rule that was broken within the timeframe of the NCAA statute of limitations (4 years unless involving player eligibility or a repeated pattern of broken rules) then there is absolutely no reason or basis at all for the NCAA to hand down a single penalty against the Penn State football team, or any student-athlete. Period. |
Yes there is. As much as this was about money you ignoring the fact the money came as a direct result of the success of the football program. The football program was the machine generating the money and publicity. I really can't believe you're arguing that there should be no penalty to the program. |
Are you aware that 2001 was smack dab in the middle of the biggest fundraising campaign in Penn State history? Read up yourself instead of just swallowing whatever you're told by the media.
The "Grand Destiny" campaign was undertaken by Graham Spanier to raise over a billion (yes billion) dollars for Penn State branch sampuses over the span of 3 years. In 2003, the net result of the campaign at it's end was over $1.37 billion dollars raised for the University.
The net profits from the athletic department are absolute peanuts in comparison to what was raised by Graham Spanier's Grand Destiny campaign.
So if I'm going to use your logic and follow the money, then any cover-up that occurred was done by Graham Spanier to avoid any bad publicity that would disrupt the campaign's fundrasing efforts since he and Sandusky were close friends and there were ties to the Second Mile charity.
People focusing on football are missing the entire picture here and just swallowing the attractive narrative pertaining to football.
| Quote: | RAVINGMADD
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject:
Bonanza23 wrote:
Here is the download link if anybody else wants to read it. Yeah I don't know that's an awful long read if you ask me, and I personally don't have the time to read it. So unfortunately I don't have the authority to comment one way or the other if there is proof that Paterno and his inferiors covered this up. The only thing I know is somebody should have stopped this a WHOLE lot earlier. If I saw nothing was getting done, you can darn well know I would call anybody I could until I got results. ESPECIALLY IF I HAD PATERNO'S POWER. Unless of course I had something to hide.
Why would you push so hard to get something done if you had no physical evidence yourself? The thing with Paterno is that he reported it to administrators and they reported it to the police. The police did an investigation and came away saying there was no evidence of child molestation. If you were Paterno, why would you push for something more to be done if you didn't have first-hand knowledge? Most people would figure that if the police investigated it and found no evidence, then, most likely, no wrong-doings occurred. |
Exactly. It was not Paterno's place to assume the guilt of a man over a crime he never witnessed. Justice is based on innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.
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| KingofSTATS wrote: |
Witten is just too slow and nonathletic to be a dominant force in the receiving game. |
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mm6492
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 22288
Location: The Valley of Happiness
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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NCAA expert Michael Buckner: "If the media reports are true, then the NCAA has charted an unprecedented, and perhaps unconstitutional course of action...the issues facing Penn State are best left in the expert hands of the criminal and civil courts. The NCAA is treating Penn State differently than other schools that were involved in sexual assault scandals. The NCAA is not adhering to its existing enforcement processes and procedures. The conduct of Penn State and its employees, no matter how egregious, is not a violation of an existing NCAA rule."
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malibuspeedrace
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 12173
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| BigD88 wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | BigD88 wrote: | Cite specifically your proof that Graham Spanier and Gary Schultz (it was their decision) chose not to go to the police because of the football program, and not because of any personal relationships with Sandusky, $$ from the Second Mile, willful ignorance, or for their own personal gain.
Show me the proof that these men did it to "protect football." I eagerly await that citation.
Is it the 4 e-mails exchanged that don't include the word "football" or "program," or "reputation," or is it just a news narrative saying so? |
Regardless of whether or not they wanted to protect the football program, it all comes down to money. That's it. Money comes before the welfare of human beings. I mean our countries government is probably the biggest example of this. They are essentially allowing companies to "molest" our welfare and then covering it up in the name of money, so why would anyone expect Penn State to do anything different. |
I agree with you but that's not the point here.
There is absolutely no proof, ZERO, ZIP, NADA that the administrative officials chose not to turn Sandusky in to the police because of the Penn State football program. Absolutely none.
Until you can do that, and cite a specific NCAA rule that was broken within the timeframe of the NCAA statute of limitations (4 years unless involving player eligibility or a repeated pattern of broken rules) then there is absolutely no reason or basis at all for the NCAA to hand down a single penalty against the Penn State football team, or any student-athlete. Period. |
It is going to suck with this type of attitude tomorrow.
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| candyman93 wrote: | | I love Pnies |
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Dracula58
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2689
Location: Columbus Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| malibuspeedrace wrote: |
It is going to suck with this type of attitude tomorrow. |
Sucks regardless of attitude...What happens happens nothing can change that unless the school takes the NCAA to court, dont think that would happen. I think they will take it an move on.
I guess I just want to see what the NCAA is going to do about the Syracuse child molestation issues that seem to be no big deal to the NCAA or society... |
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Webmaster
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 7640
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| There hasn't been any football talk in this topic for quite some time. I left it open for a while, but I think it's time to lock it up. I'll re-open it when we get closer to the start of the season. |
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Webmaster
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 7640
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| I'm going to open this up so members can discuss Penn State football. Keep the discussion to football. |
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Purple-Pride07
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 17173
Location: Right Behind You
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Via Adam Breneman's Twitter:
| Quote: | | Visiting Penn State tomorrow with my boys @chackenberg1 @GarrettSickels @BigBabyMahon @Will_Fuller7! |
According to Adam's father, Brian Breneman, the recruiting class -- lead primarily by Adam Breneman -- wants to stick together regardless of where they wind up. After both 4-star DE Garrett Sickels and OL Brendan Mahon firmed their commitments to the school, I'd say tomorrow appears to be the day we get the pleasant announcement that both Adam Breneman and Christian Hackenberg are firming their commitment to Penn State as well. It'd be a really empowering moment for fans, students, and alumni. Provided the main recruits stick around, I'd assume it bodes quite well for us to get a firmed commitment from Dorian Johnson, another 4-star OL prospect, who's reportedly teetering on re-opening his recruitment all together.
It goes without saying that if we're able to fend off USC for Silas Redd, in addition to keeping the core of top 4-5 recruits locked up in State College, we'll have made great progress in remaining competitive despite the hefty sanctions.
If, of course, it happens.
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"When a team outgrows individual performance and learns team confidence, excellence becomes a reality."
--Joe Paterno. |
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