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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 25195
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
mm6492 wrote:
Weber signs here, we give up 4 1st round picks.

Nashville matches, they aren't in nashville in 2 years.

Or we work out a trade.


I wish I had seen this earlier. Nashville has zero financial problems and the ownership group is committed to keeping the team in Nashville. They were in the race monetarily to sign Suter and Parise who chose the Wild because of location, not money.

With the Weber signing the Predators are still a few thousand below the cap floor and budgeted to spend to the cap.

You should have a look at who is part of the Nashville ownership group before suggesting they might move.


I think you should have a look. One of the majority owners owns essentially John Deere Franchises around the Nashvillle area, these guys aren't made of money. Factor in that the team while doing well still isn't all that profitable simply from a profit stand point and you have good reason to believe they couldn't afford a $27M expense for one player in a single season. It doesn't matter that they are still below the cap floor that $27M doesn't factor into the cap situation unless they don't plan on spending nearly as much in cap space as they did last year.
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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BirdsFan06050


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a no lose situation for us, diehard.

Homer has reiterated all off-season his desire is to add to our young nucleus, not subtract. He's made it clear he doesn't want to move either Couturier or Schenn, and I applaude him for that. He shouldn't. It's about time the Flyers groomed and developed their own players, and did things the right way.

Subsequently, he decided to send out an OS in an attempt to lure him to Philadelphia for draft picks rather than quality young players, but it didn't work out despite the Flyers best efforts to force Poile's hand. Nashville has stated that they'd match any offer sheet, so Homer put that to test to keep them honest. It appears neither GM talked much this week to work on a trade either despite the rumors. Clearly the Preds felt they had to match, and good on them. I admire their ambition.

But hey, we come away with the same club as we did a week ago, which is one I feel very strongly about moving forward. There are holes to address for sure, but Homer will fill them eventually, perhaps at the trade deadline. Guys like Enstrom and Ryan will be at the top of his wish list IMO.

For now, however, I'd like to see our club stand pat unless an offer we can't refuse comes along.

Here are my reasons:

-Claude Giroux.

-JVR and Jagr have left the club. Fans are asking how this offense will be replaced? Well, the Flyers seemed to find a way to score quite alright without the services of the former last year, since he played in just a handful of games, and even when he did he wasn't 100%. The latter was an important presence for us last year. He'll be missed on and off the ice, but his void will be filled by our young players, who will now be given more ice time. Voracek and Schenn will both get cracks to play on the 1st line with Giroux.

-Breakout seasons from guys such as Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, and others are certainly a realistic possibility too.

-More TOI is also in store for Couturier, who will play 3rd line center receive time on the PP as well. Well-deserved.

-A healthy Briere will also do wonders for this team. Remember he struggled last year due to a major slump and a multitude of injuries, including a concussion. Once he got his legs back, he put on another clutch display in the playoffs, and is just a year removed from all-star honors. I expect a better year from Danny Boy.

-Bryz improvements. Yes, he had the 3rd highest save % in the league during the 2nd half last year, but critics will say that number is skewed by a monstrous month while also pointing to a less than stellar playoff performance. Regardless, he will be better next year and a vastly superior Bryz on a club that had 100+ pts last year in spite of him would be a significant boost.

-A full-season of Grossman. He formed a shutdown pair with Coburn down the stretch, but his superb play was stymied due to both a knee injury and concussion. He appeared lost in the Devils series, but so long as he's healthy I'd expect him to return to form.

-Meszaros' return. Back surgery ended his season prematurely, but even before that Andrej the Giant wasn't the same all-star calibre d-man that we had season just in the prior year when he won the Barry Ashbee award as the club's best blue-liner. His health could go a long way towards solidifying the D.

-The development of Luke Schenn. He brings as much upside defensively as JVR did offensively, which is great for us considering we have a need for a true, stay-at-home d-man that possesses a heavy right-handed shot (oh wait, isn't that Shea Weber..Laughing). All kidding aside I think a change of scenery could do wonders for Schenn B, and I'm eager to see him in orange and black. He will likely be partnered with Kimmo this season IMO.

-Finally, Pronger remains the biggest wildcard and mystery. Very, very little chance, if any, remains of a possible return, but you can always hope.

The biggest issue with the team is depth. If injuries do occur, we're a bit short on quality players that can fill in. Again, though, this can be addressed at the deadline or at some point in the season.

Regardless, Homer has learned from his past mistakes, and his new found patience and hesitation to move his young guns is showing.

Keep it up.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 25195
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BirdsFan06050 wrote:
It was a no lose situation for us, diehard.

Homer has reiterated all off-season his desire is to add to our young nucleus, not subtract. He's made it clear he doesn't want to move either Couturier or Schenn, and I applaude him for that. He shouldn't. It's about time the Flyers groomed and developed their own players, and did things the right way.

Subsequently, he decided to send out an OS in an attempt to lure him to Philadelphia for draft picks rather than quality young players, but it didn't work out despite the Flyers best efforts to force Poile's hand. Nashville has stated that they'd match any offer sheet, so Homer put that to test to keep them honest. It appears neither GM talked much this week to work on a trade either despite the rumors. Clearly the Preds felt they had to match, and good on them. I admire their ambition.

But hey, we come away with the same club as we did a week ago, which is one I feel very strongly about moving forward. There are holes to address for sure, but Homer will fill them eventually, perhaps at the trade deadline. Guys like Enstrom and Ryan will be at the top of his wish list IMO.

For now, however, I'd like to see our club stand pat unless an offer we can't refuse comes along.

Here are my reasons:

-Claude Giroux.

-JVR and Jagr have left the club. Fans are asking how this offense will be replaced? Well, the Flyers seemed to find a way to score quite alright without the services of the former last year, since he played in just a handful of games, and even when he did he wasn't 100%. The latter was an important presence for us last year. He'll be missed on and off the ice, but his void will be filled by our young players, who will now be given more ice time. Voracek and Schenn will both get cracks to play on the 1st line with Giroux.

-Breakout seasons from guys such as Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, and others are certainly a realistic possibility too.

-More TOI is also in store for Couturier, who will play 3rd line center receive time on the PP as well. Well-deserved.

-A healthy Briere will also do wonders for this team. Remember he struggled last year due to a major slump and a multitude of injuries, including a concussion. Once he got his legs back, he put on another clutch display in the playoffs, and is just a year removed from all-star honors. I expect a better year from Danny Boy.

-Bryz improvements. Yes, he had the 3rd highest save % in the league during the 2nd half last year, but critics will say that number is skewed by a monstrous month while also pointing to a less than stellar playoff performance. Regardless, he will be better next year and a vastly superior Bryz on a club that had 100+ pts last year in spite of him would be a significant boost.

-A full-season of Grossman. He formed a shutdown pair with Coburn down the stretch, but his superb play was stymied due to both a knee injury and concussion. He appeared lost in the Devils series, but so long as he's healthy I'd expect him to return to form.

-Meszaros' return. Back surgery ended his season prematurely, but even before that Andrej the Giant wasn't the same all-star calibre d-man that we had season just in the prior year when he won the Barry Ashbee award as the club's best blue-liner. His health could go a long way towards solidifying the D.

-The development of Luke Schenn. He brings as much upside defensively as JVR did offensively, which is great for us considering we have a need for a true, stay-at-home d-man that possesses a heavy right-handed shot (oh wait, isn't that Shea Weber..Laughing). All kidding aside I think a change of scenery could do wonders for Schenn B, and I'm eager to see him in orange and black. He will likely be partnered with Kimmo this season IMO.

-Finally, Pronger remains the biggest wildcard and mystery. Very, very little chance, if any, remains of a possible return, but you can always hope.

The biggest issue with the team is depth. If injuries do occur, we're a bit short on quality players that can fill in. Again, though, this can be addressed at the deadline or at some point in the season.

Regardless, Homer has learned from his past mistakes, and his new found patience and hesitation to move his young guns is showing.

Keep it up.


Pretty much summed up my thoughts. I think we still need to add a top 6 RW. Shane Doan would be an instant fan favorite here in Philly I just don't know what he is going to fetch and if it will be in the Flyers' plans. Like you said our goal is to build without giving up talent, to acquire someone like Bobby Ryan it is going to cost us a pretty penny most likely we maybe better just going the FA route.
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops
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Last edited by diehardlionfan on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
mm6492 wrote:
Weber signs here, we give up 4 1st round picks.

Nashville matches, they aren't in nashville in 2 years.

Or we work out a trade.


I wish I had seen this earlier. Nashville has zero financial problems and the ownership group is committed to keeping the team in Nashville. They were in the race monetarily to sign Suter and Parise who chose the Wild because of location, not money.

With the Weber signing the Predators are still a few thousand below the cap floor and budgeted to spend to the cap.

You should have a look at who is part of the Nashville ownership group before suggesting they might move.


I think you should have a look. One of the majority owners owns essentially John Deere Franchises around the Nashvillle area, these guys aren't made of money. Factor in that the team while doing well still isn't all that profitable simply from a profit stand point and you have good reason to believe they couldn't afford a $27M expense for one player in a single season. It doesn't
matter that they are still below the cap floor that $27M doesn't factor into the cap situation unless they don't plan on spending nearly as much in cap space as they did last year.


Take a look at he ENTIRE ownership group. A Calgary billionaire by the name of Brett Wilson is a minority owner and just upped his stake to 10%.

He has been trying to be involved with the Predetors for many years and they let him in a few years back. His net worth rivals Sniders and he has publicly stated numerous times,

1. The team won't move.
2. Money is not an issue.
3. The approved budget allows the team to spend to the cap.

This mans reputation is sterling and what he says he means. He wanted to be involved with the Preds because he,

1. Loves hockey.
2. Has numerous business interests in Nashville.
3. Resides six months of the year there.

If you follow the team you would also know that since the ownership change the Predators have had a great upswing in corporate sponsorship and have amongst the most loyal fan bases in hockey.

This isn't unlike the Oilers ownership group of years past. They had a billionaire in the wings ready to spend whatever it took. It matters not if a majority owner owns a car wash its the franchise ownership groups collective worth and commitment.

Have a look the mans name is W. Brett Wilson.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 25432
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BirdsFan06050 wrote:
It was a no lose situation for us, diehard.

Homer has reiterated all off-season his desire is to add to our young nucleus, not subtract. He's made it clear he doesn't want to move either Couturier or Schenn, and I applaude him for that. He shouldn't. It's about time the Flyers groomed and developed their own players, and did things the right way.

Subsequently, he decided to send out an OS in an attempt to lure him to Philadelphia for draft picks rather than quality young players, but it didn't work out despite the Flyers best efforts to force Poile's hand. Nashville has stated that they'd match any offer sheet, so Homer put that to test to keep them honest. It appears neither GM talked much this week to work on a trade either despite the rumors. Clearly the Preds felt they had to match, and good on them. I admire their ambition.
But hey, we come away with the same club as we did a week ago, which is one I feel very strongly about moving forward. There are holes to address for sure, but Homer will fill them eventually, perhaps at the trade deadline. Guys like Enstrom and Ryan will be at the top of his wish list IMO.

For now, however, I'd like to see our club stand pat unless an offer we can't refuse comes along.

Here are my reasons:

-Claude Giroux.

-JVR and Jagr have left the club. Fans are asking how this offense will be replaced? Well, the Flyers seemed to find a way to score quite alright without the services of the former last year, since he played in just a handful of games, and even when he did he wasn't 100%. The latter was an important presence for us last year. He'll be missed on and off the ice, but his void will be filled by our young players, who will now be given more ice time. Voracek and Schenn will both get cracks to play on the 1st line with Giroux.

-Breakout seasons from guys such as Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, and others are certainly a realistic possibility too.

-More TOI is also in store for Couturier, who will play 3rd line center receive
time on the PP as well. Well-deserved.

-A healthy Briere will also do wonders for this team. Remember he struggled last year due to a major slump and a multitude of injuries, including a concussion. Once he got his legs back, he put on another clutch display in the playoffs, and is just a year removed from all-star honors. I expect a better year from Danny Boy.

-Bryz improvements. Yes, he had the 3rd highest save % in the league during the 2nd half last year, but critics will say that number is skewed by a monstrous month while also pointing to a less than stellar playoff performance. Regardless, he will be better next year and a vastly superior
Bryz on a club that had 100+ pts last year in spite of him would be a significant boost.

-A full-season of Grossman. He formed a shutdown pair with Coburn down the stretch, but his superb play was stymied due to both a knee injury and concussion. He appeared lost in the Devils series, but so long as he's healthy I'd expect him to return to form.

-Meszaros' return. Back surgery ended his season prematurely, but even before that Andrej the Giant wasn't the same all-star calibre d-man that we had season just in the prior year when he won the Barry Ashbee award as the club's best blue-liner. His health could go a long way towards solidifying the D.

-The development of Luke Schenn. He brings as much upside defensively as JVR did offensively, which is great for us considering we have a need for a true, stay-at-home d-man that possesses a heavy right-handed shot (oh wait, isn't that Shea Weber..Laughing). All kidding aside I think a change of scenery could do wonders for Schenn B, and I'm eager to see him in orange and black. He will likely be partnered with Kimmo this season IMO.

-Finally, Pronger remains the biggest wildcard and mystery. Very, very little chance, if any, remains of a possible return, but you can always hope.

The biggest issue with the team is depth. If injuries do occur, we're a bit short on quality players that can fill in. Again, though, this can be addressed at the deadline or at some point in the season.

Regardless, Homer has learned from his past mistakes, and his new found patience and hesitation to move his young guns is showing.

Keep it up.


That's your perception and that's fine.

The objective was to add a top pairing defenseman and Homer failed to do that. He took his shot and it came up short.

The reality is the team is weaker than last season.

As for Pronger no matter how his recovery goes he would be an idiot to play again. Another concussion and he might not remember who his children are.
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BirdsFan06050


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
That's your perception and that's fine.

The objective was to add a top pairing defenseman and Homer failed to do that. He took his shot and it came up short.

The reality is the team is weaker than last season.

As for Pronger no matter how his recovery goes he would be an idiot to play again. Another concussion and he might not remember who his children are.


It's weaker on paper, sure, but given the breakout potentials of several key players, I'm confident this club will still be a contender.

Furthermore, if a need or hole needs to be addressed, Homer has ample cap space to make something happen during the season or at the deadline, though I'd like to see where we're at before giving up valuable pieces to upgrade certain areas.

Your team you start with in October does not need to be the one you finish with in April, and the Flyers, as always, will do everything in their power to ice the best possible team.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but you're wrong about the objective. The goal was to land Shea Weber without subtracting from the team. We went after him because he is Shea Weber, not because we need a top-pair blue-liner. I'm fully comfortable with the blue-line, and don't expect Homer to make any moves there until the deadline at the earliest. Obviously a replacement for Kimmo will need to be added sometime in the next year, but that could also be addressed via FA. Enstrom is the natural candidate.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 25195
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
mm6492 wrote:
Weber signs here, we give up 4 1st round picks.

Nashville matches, they aren't in nashville in 2 years.

Or we work out a trade.


I wish I had seen this earlier. Nashville has zero financial problems and the ownership group is committed to keeping the team in Nashville. They were in the race monetarily to sign Suter and Parise who chose the Wild because of location, not money.

With the Weber signing the Predators are still a few thousand below the cap floor and budgeted to spend to the cap.

You should have a look at who is part of the Nashville ownership group before suggesting they might move.


I think you should have a look. One of the majority owners owns essentially John Deere Franchises around the Nashvillle area, these guys aren't made of money. Factor in that the team while doing well still isn't all that profitable simply from a profit stand point and you have good reason to believe they couldn't afford a $27M expense for one player in a single season. It doesn't
matter that they are still below the cap floor that $27M doesn't factor into the cap situation unless they don't plan on spending nearly as much in cap space as they did last year.


Take a look at he ENTIRE ownership group. A Calgary billionaire by the name of Brett Wilson is a minority owner and just upped his stake to 10%.

He has been trying to be involved with the Predetors for many years and they let him in a few years back. His net worth rivals Sniders and he has publicly stated numerous times,

1. The team won't move.
2. Money is not an issue.
3. The approved budget allows the team to spend to the cap.

This mans reputation is sterling and what he says he means. He wanted to be involved with the Preds because he,

1. Loves hockey.
2. Has numerous business interests in Nashville.
3. Resides six months of the year there.

If you follow the team you would also know that since the ownership change the Predators have had a great upswing in corporate sponsorship and have amongst the most loyal fan bases in hockey.

This isn't unlike the Oilers ownership group of years past. They had a billionaire in the wings ready to spend whatever it took. It matters not if a majority owner owns a car wash its the franchise ownership groups collective worth and commitment.

Have a look the mans name is W. Brett Wilson.


I'm aware of who he is. But like you said he is the minority owner. I give credit to the Predators ownership because they have sunk in a ton of money into the team despite the fact they are still losing money. I think in the last 3 years they have put in like $50M of their own money to try and turn the franchise around.

Despite their sponsorship deals and fanbase they aren't turning a profit, that is a FACT. The City of Nashville contributes a significant amount of money each year to the franchise to play in the arena and from an operation stand point to try and generate further revenue with city businesses. That is also a FACT. Nashville also benefits heavily from revenue sharing in the NHL, and it is outrageous to me that they can pay 2 players on their roster 40+M for the upcoming season and yet still demand more from a revenue sharing stand point.

I give their owners all the credit in the world, they aren't going to let this franchise just roll-over and die, but if this team continues to not turn a profit these guys are also businessmen at the end of the day.
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johndeere1707 wrote:

Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 25195
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BirdsFan06050 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
That's your perception and that's fine.

The objective was to add a top pairing defenseman and Homer failed to do that. He took his shot and it came up short.

The reality is the team is weaker than last season.

As for Pronger no matter how his recovery goes he would be an idiot to play again. Another concussion and he might not remember who his children are.


It's weaker on paper, sure, but given the breakout potentials of several key players, I'm confident this club will still be a contender.

Furthermore, if a need or hole needs to be addressed, Homer has ample cap space to make something happen during the season or at the deadline, though I'd like to see where we're at before giving up valuable pieces to upgrade certain areas.

Your team you start with in October does not need to be the one you finish with in April, and the Flyers, as always, will do everything in their power to ice the best possible team.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but you're wrong about the objective. The goal was to land Shea Weber without subtracting from the team. We went after him because he is Shea Weber, not because we need a top-pair blue-liner. I'm fully comfortable with the blue-line, and don't expect Homer to make any moves there until the deadline at the earliest. Obviously a replacement for Kimmo will need to be added sometime in the next year, but that could also be addressed via FA. Enstrom is the natural candidate.


I really don't see how we are weaker on paper either.

I guess Pronger was in our lineup at the start of last season but he has been written off for some time now. I'll assume his career is done.

I just see a ton of young kids that finally got a full-season under their belt to grow. Guys like Couturier, Brayden Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, and hell, even Giroux (who will be healthy again) will only improve their games with more ice time and more experience. The thing that I fear the most is depth on this team, not in the starting line up, I think we have 4 strong lines by NHL standards, but if we get injured we obviously don't have much in the form of a farm system.
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johndeere1707 wrote:

Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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BirdsFan06050


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depth is the biggest issue for me too, especially at the back end.

Offensively, we have 5 returning 20+ goal scorers, none of which include Couts or Schenn. We're more than fine there IMO.

But, again, if the injuries pile on that can be addressed.
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mm6492


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who wants to make the new thread?
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flyers0909


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake signs a 4 year deal worth $17 million.

Dancing
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EaglesFan5-36-81


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voracek resigned to a 4 year, $17,000,000 Contract ($4,250,000) cap hit

Were set up front. It wouldn't shock me if Voracek got to 60 points playing with Giroux and Hartnell. He got 49 playing 3rd and 4th line minuets.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/7/26/3188429/jakub-voracek-contract-philadelphia-flyers
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I don't like Jake V, I've came to accept the fact that he's a talented dude and we had to lock him up in the good deal.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Briere-xxx
Read-Couts-Simmonds
Fed-Talbot-Welwood

Coburn-Grossman
Timonen-Mez
Schenn-Lilja/geravisisisisnfd
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