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Purple-Pride07


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BirdsFan06050 wrote:
We didn't need any other additions had they kept both Carter and Richards on the team. They have a few small role players who are RFA's that they would've needed to re-sign, and still do, but that was pretty much it. Most people thought the roster was set except for one trade that would've created just enough room to squeeze Bryzgalov under the cap, preferably Versteeg or Hartnell being the player out the door. The fact of the matter is that could've been done, so stop saying that these moves were made to simply sign a goalie. That's a blatantly false and quite frankly lazy answer.


Ok, you essentially prove my point & agree with me in the first half of the above, and then you pull a 180 in the latter. You're absolutely right - the team didn't need much.. hell, you're 12 months off of a Stanley Cup finals appearance. What was the lone piece missing though? That's correct, it was a goaltender. And that one trade of Versteeg or Hartnell to rid the team of the unneeded cap hit never happened, and neither Hartnell or Versteeg's cap relief would have enabled the team to sign Bryzgalov, in addition to all of the UFA/RFA's the team must sign or would like to sign as well. Don't tell me that the moves didn't have to do with freeing up cap space in order to be more flexible pre & post-Bryzgalov signing, because that'd be absolutely incorrect. Never did I say it was the primary, driving force behind the trades, but you bet your backside it had to do with it.



BirdsFan06050 wrote:
That's an debatable claim. It's easy to sit here and say those two guys were the faces of the team, but I don't buy that. Richards was without a doubt a franchise-type player and the captain of the team, but I'm not sure if I'd call Carter just that. Briere, Giroux, JVR, Pronger, and Timonen were just as much, if not more, important to this club in the eyes of the front office and fans. People always wanted to label Carter as that kind of guy because he was drafted during the same year as Richards, but its not as if he was this team's second best player or anything like that.


Lets not play games here, I'm not a fair-weather fan by any means - Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were the Philadelphia Flyers and trying to suggest otherwise to me is semi-insulting as a hockey fan. Nobody would deny that Danny Briere or Kimmo Timmonen are good players, they're not the face of any organization. Claude Giroux and James Van Riemsdyk now take on that role, but that by no means is earned at this point, it's out of obligation due to the two trades yesterday. Can they flourish in that role? Damn right they can, but it still remains to be seen. Chris Pronger is the remaining player that can face the organization this year upcoming, but he's not going to be around for much longer. Jeff Carter is a proven & legitimate threat to other teams - much moreso than an aged Danny Briere or young (albeit promising) Claude Giroux. I dare you to name me a better player than Jeff Carter over the past 3 seasons for the Flyers aside from perhaps Mike Richards. Please say Danny Briere so I can laugh. It's easy to say Richie and Carter were face 1 and 2 of the team because they were BF; yes they're gone, but you know it's the truth. That doesn't mean the Flyers aren't still a good team, nor did I argue it either.


BirdsFan06050 wrote:
There is such a thing as poor speculation. You randomly threw out those numbers without any basis or backing. All early reports are indicating that Simmonds should sign for a bit less than $2 million per season, and that Voracek will get something slightly above that number. That was my point.


It's the economics of free agency, and you're undervaluing Wayne Simmonds in this instance. Lets say for arguments sake that we meet in the middle and Simmonds gets $2M.. would I really be off on my claim of $2.2-2.5M by an unparalleled amount? No, absolutely not. I said it'd be a bargain, in fact. If Voracek signs for $2.2M or $2.4M for arguments sake.. would I really be off on my claim of $2.7M? No, I would not. And given the yearly fluxuation of market value on certain players, it is a fair belief. We can re-evaluate if/when the deals are signed, but don't think you're going to crack both for well under $2M. Above all else, I clearly noted that each figure was my opinion, so interpretation is left all up to you.


BirdsFan06050 wrote:
Where are those conflicting reports regarding not signing Richards or trading Versteeg? Those are coming from the mouths of the front office or owner, which both already stated that Carter and Richards were essentially untouchable just a week ago. Media outlets and personal inside knowledge predicted those very moves that both occurred yesterday, and I'm simply speculating based on what I keep hearing from good sources.


Uh oh, now you're speculating as well. For the record, it's not in good business to publicly state for no reason that your one (or both) of your top 2 players is available for any and all trades. Absolutely they were "essentially untouchable"... a statement like that will effectively weed out the low-ballers and pretenders in any potential trade scenario for either Richards or Carter. What we do know is that there was at least [url=http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/83983096768241664]one report that the Versteeg rumor was false from a credible source, a direct quote from the team's chairman supporting the notion that the team is done making big deals (I'd consider Brad Richards a big deal, would you not), and a report that the team has the intentions of re-signing Ville Leino. All opposites of what you previously suggested, is all I said. Your good sources are no different from my good sources. In that case, I have multiple friends within the Flyers organization, you'll just have to take my word for it.


BirdsFan06050 wrote:
Where am I saying to anybody that they can't have their own opinion? All I'm saying is keep an open mind, and realize that the club is far from done.

You keep twisting my words as if they are imperative commands. They're not.


Suggesting as if you're on higher authority to the rest of us that it isn't wise to make a judgement on something we're all entitled to judge for as long or as little as we'd like is the latest example. Combined with the semi-scoldings of anybody even mentioning Steven Stamkos' name yesterday, or the mere notion that the Carter/Richards trades were in fact prevalent to signing Ilya Bryzgalov. You're getting far too defensive here - nobody said the Flyers are a bad team, nor did anyone say you didn't get a good return. People are upset for obvious reasons, and people are going to react accordingly, which has been my point from the get-go.

No harm no foul, my friend. You seem to be a pretty knowledgeable hockey fan. I think this is more of a fit of miscommunication on both our parts, as well as a stark difference of opinion. Good luck, regardless. Hey, I'm envious.. as a Leaf fan, I don't need to tell you how badly I want (and wanted) Brayden Schenn.
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BirdsFan06050


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm honestly not trying to come off as a higher authority. I just want people to understand that the Flyers are probably far from done.

Either way, I'll probably respond to your post a bit later but I'm watching the draft with some friends right now. Good luck in the draft to you as well.
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bennett23


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We better take Dougie Hamilton here.
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mm6492


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bennett23 wrote:
We better take Dougie Hamilton here.


Would've loved him but love this pick as well.
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McNabbMcFadden


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone tell me about this Sean Cout...... whatever his name is.

I don't follow Hockey prospects at all. Why would we take another Center when we just got Schenn in a trade.
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mm6492


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Holmgren says it's an important summer for him, he said the Flyers will give him a hard look for a possible spot on the roster. 'Who knows'

-Leed
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Purple-Pride07


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McNabbMcFadden wrote:
Someone tell me about this Sean Cout...... whatever his name is.

I don't follow Hockey prospects at all. Why would we take another Center when we just got Schenn in a trade.



Coutourier probably won't be a Center moving forward.
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mm6492


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Briere
Leino - Couturier - Versteeg
Simmonds - Betts - Nodl

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - Gustafsson

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky


Talk about depth Wink
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mm6492


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purple-Pride07 wrote:
McNabbMcFadden wrote:
Someone tell me about this Sean Cout...... whatever his name is.

I don't follow Hockey prospects at all. Why would we take another Center when we just got Schenn in a trade.



Coutourier probably won't be a Center moving forward.


Why do you think that?
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mm6492


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look here first:
http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg611/scaled.php?tn=0&server=611&filename=fdhsl.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

mattcarle25 Matt Carle
I hope this Joe Morrow is a future Norris contender, and more importantly a Stanley Cup winner...haha @tsnjamesduthie yfrog.com/gzfdhslj

mattcarle25 Matt Carle
Whoa...didn't realize who he was drafted by #whoops

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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mm6492


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mm6492 wrote:
Look here first:
http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg611/scaled.php?tn=0&server=611&filename=fdhsl.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

mattcarle25 Matt Carle
I hope this Joe Morrow is a future Norris contender, and more importantly a Stanley Cup winner...haha @tsnjamesduthie yfrog.com/gzfdhslj

mattcarle25 Matt Carle
Whoa...didn't realize who he was drafted by #whoops

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


mattcarle25 Matt Carle
My bro sent me that pic...I had no idea he was a pens pick...now I hope he's a career 2nd place finisher in the atlantic division #Flyers
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flyers0909


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhh so is anyone else really really excited for the incredible amount of youth and depth we now have up front? Just reading up on Couturier and I really like what I'm reading. Sounds like a really bright kid.

Giroux, JVR, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier. Shocked

I still really am in shock about how different the makeup is of this team than it was 48 hours ago.
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BirdsFan06050


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Gbpckr50


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 3715
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luukko doesn't look too happy in that picture.
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ninjapirate


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyers0909 wrote:
Uhh so is anyone else really really excited for the incredible amount of youth and depth we now have up front? Just reading up on Couturier and I really like what I'm reading. Sounds like a really bright kid.

Giroux, JVR, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier. Shocked

I still really am in shock about how different the makeup is of this team than it was 48 hours ago.


Is Couturier expected to actually play for the big club any time soon?
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