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Homeland (Showtime) ~ *Spoilers Inside*
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first 35-40 minutes... I thought oh this is going to be a wrap up finale, yeaaaah no. Aaaaawesome scene from Estes office, booooom.

Saul in charge is awesome. I thought Quinn was cool, backing down.

I thought the first couple of episodes was amazing, the middle of the season sort of fizzled out, but the finale was good or at least the last 50 %
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CBears019


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Colt45fool wrote:
A new terrorist isn't nearly enough motivation for Carrie to return to the CIA...so they add a terrorist attack that gets pinned on Brody from Nazir's crew. Brilliant. The one scenario I hadn't thought of...now they can bring in a new plot while also keeping Brody alive & Showtime executives satisfied. Absolutely brilliant. And while I was cautious this would turn into CARRIE & BRODY ON THE RUN in CANADA I was ecstatic to see Carrie turn back to the CIA because duty calls. An attack from Nazir and his gang is the only thing that has enough weight to bring Carrie back. Great storytelling, really.

well stated on your part here.


Colt45fool wrote:
They're going to have to introduce some new characters next season to make up the void...but I think that's a bit of a given since the series has kind of been given a reboot.

well, we haven't met the President yet, ya know...


That's something that has really bugged me throughout this show, we hear and see so much about the VP, but I don't think the president has even been mentioned at all. Kind of odd.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
That's something that has really bugged me throughout this show, we hear and see so much about the VP, but I don't think the president has even been mentioned at all. Kind of odd.

i'm sure it's very intentional.
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yankee0724


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
Colt45fool wrote:
A new terrorist isn't nearly enough motivation for Carrie to return to the CIA...so they add a terrorist attack that gets pinned on Brody from Nazir's crew. Brilliant. The one scenario I hadn't thought of...now they can bring in a new plot while also keeping Brody alive & Showtime executives satisfied. Absolutely brilliant. And while I was cautious this would turn into CARRIE & BRODY ON THE RUN in CANADA I was ecstatic to see Carrie turn back to the CIA because duty calls. An attack from Nazir and his gang is the only thing that has enough weight to bring Carrie back. Great storytelling, really.

well stated on your part here.


Colt45fool wrote:
They're going to have to introduce some new characters next season to make up the void...but I think that's a bit of a given since the series has kind of been given a reboot.

well, we haven't met the President yet, ya know...


That's something that has really bugged me throughout this show, we hear and see so much about the VP, but I don't think the president has even been mentioned at all. Kind of odd.


It's always bugged me too. Only thing I can think of is they've insinuated multiple times that he's in his last term. It's weird that we were seeing the VP so much, but it makes sense given what we know about the political timeline so to speak, with Walden running and wanting Brody to be his vp, etc. Only problem I really see is s1 finale. Don't remember hearing anything about the president being with Brody in the room.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yankee0724 wrote:
Only thing I can think of is they've insinuated multiple times that he's in his last term.

i think that's obvious. a sitting VP has never challenged the sitting president of his own party in a primary election.

they've kept the P's identity secret up to now to build up revealing him. first, we get the VP story, now a bigger one. and if the writers want to pursue it, there would be a new VP named too.

i was thinking Estes would become the new VP, so we continued to see him as the villan and Saul continued to have dirt on him. but he went boom instead.

Estes. Busted. Literally.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Screw it, I'm going down with my ship: The writers left it ambigous as to whether Brody was complicit in the bombing or not (Gansa even said in that Grantland podcast that the writers know exactly the 'involvement of Brody or lack thereof,' leaving both possiblities open). The 'confession' video was supposed to lead us to believe that Brody is innocent, but it's not an open and shut case. So I'm sticking with my original theory, modified to fit some of the plot twists: Brody was involved in the bombing, and played Carrie to escape. I think the feelings they share are real, but I also think he's a cold, manipulative machine who understood how to leverage his social capital with Carrie to get what he needed and also get some sexy time out of it. Or something.

OR MAYBE IT WAS A QUADRUPLE CON AND CHRIS IS THE MOLE AND ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF ONLY SOMEONE PLAYED HEARTS WITH HIM AND THE WASHINGTON WIZARDS WEREN'T SO AWFUL
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Screw it, I'm going down with my ship: The writers left it ambigous as to whether Brody was complicit in the bombing or not (Gansa even said in that Grantland podcast that the writers know exactly the 'involvement of Brody or lack thereof,' leaving both possiblities open). The 'confession' video was supposed to lead us to believe that Brody is innocent, but it's not an open and shut case. So I'm sticking with my original theory, modified to fit some of the plot twists: Brody was involved in the bombing, and played Carrie to escape. I think the feelings they share are real, but I also think he's a cold, manipulative machine who understood how to leverage his social capital with Carrie to get what he needed and also get some sexy time out of it. Or something.

OR MAYBE IT WAS A QUADRUPLE CON AND CHRIS IS THE MOLE AND ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF ONLY SOMEONE PLAYED HEARTS WITH HIM AND THE WASHINGTON WIZARDS WEREN'T SO AWFUL
You sound like you need a tinfoil hat. Brody has never been cold or manipulative, he was a broken man, a man that never wanted to hurt innocent civilians, somebody who wanted to kill those responsible for the death of the boy he loved like a son. Even the scene where he kills Walden he doesn't just watch him die, he has to contribute to it, he has to tell Walden its him that is killing him. There is passion and fire in his eyes. He's resourceful, calculating, but not cold. I'm sure Brody is not involved in the bombing, he even told Dana he wouldn't do it now. Dana knew it, she saw the truth in his eyes, thats why she emphatically stood up for her dad. And tbh its just no fun if Brody is the terrorist. There's still a mole in the CIA, somebody tipped them about the tailor remember, that mole is going to be the plot of the next season.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe 'cold' wasn't the right word, but I don't think I'm wrong to believe that Brody understands how to manipulate situations and feelings. Or taking it a step further, that Nazir understands how to do so. I'm not wed to my theory but I certainly don't think it's implausible to believe that Brody had a hand in the planting of the bomb in his car. This show has already had more twists than anyone could predict, what's one more at this point?

And as far as the mole, the writers have already said that the mole isn't supposed to be a big part of the show. Their view is that there are moles within every intelligence agency in the world that never get exposed and the one that has gotten hype in the Homeland world is no different. The mole's existence is not something to be smoked out but instead something to be accepted as part of the terrain in which they operate. They'll pay homage to his/her existence every once in a while but it doesn't seem likely that it'll ever become the driving force. Besides, they need that mole in place to help facillitate whatever external threats exist, and without those external threats there is no show. I saw a very cool voice-comparison on the Internet a while ago that made an interesting case for the polygraph adminstrator being the mole, and so unless they start to make a big deal out of finding the mole I've basically made peace with the idea that he's the mole and that he's just meant to be there, slyly changing the game from time to time but never becoming a dominating part of the show.
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Colt45fool


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Maybe 'cold' wasn't the right word, but I don't think I'm wrong to believe that Brody understands how to manipulate situations and feelings. Or taking it a step further, that Nazir understands how to do so. I'm not wed to my theory but I certainly don't think it's implausible to believe that Brody had a hand in the planting of the bomb in his car. This show has already had more twists than anyone could predict, what's one more at this point?

You're not wrong at all imo. The writers never have Brody fully commit to a side. It's very possible that he's still with Nazir's crew. I wouldn't bet on it, necessarily, but it's very possible.
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RoxSox2004


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
Only thing I can think of is they've insinuated multiple times that he's in his last term.

i think that's obvious. a sitting VP has never challenged the sitting president of his own party in a primary election.

they've kept the P's identity secret up to now to build up revealing him. first, we get the VP story, now a bigger one. and if the writers want to pursue it, there would be a new VP named too.

i was thinking Estes would become the new VP, so we continued to see him as the villan and Saul continued to have dirt on him. but he went boom instead.

Estes. Busted. Literally.


I don't think they'll ever reveal who the President is. The entire show has been about personal relationships within the intelligence world. This isn't 24.
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as11osu


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it recovered pretty well from the complete shark jump a couple episodes ago and now sits back on the same level as 24. It has become essentially mindless entertainment. After the first season I thought it could be a lot more than that, but it's just not. Good episode capping a very disappointing season.
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as11osu


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoxSox2004 wrote:
This isn't 24.

That's exactly what this has become. The departure in realism between season 1 and 2 was just as great here as it was there.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoxSox2004 wrote:
I don't think they'll ever reveal who the President is. The entire show has been about personal relationships within the intelligence world. This isn't 24.

huh? the Vice President became a major secondary character, influencing many other characters' actions.

why wouldn't the President be used as such?
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
RoxSox2004 wrote:
I don't think they'll ever reveal who the President is. The entire show has been about personal relationships within the intelligence world. This isn't 24.

huh? the Vice President became a major secondary character, influencing many other characters' actions.

why wouldn't the President be used as such?
Waldon was the former director of the CIA, Estes and him had the situation of continuing to cover up the drone stroke. That's why there was so much interaction between the 2. Waldon was also running for President and was expected to win, he was running the show as sort of "president-in-waiting"
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Waldon was also running for President and was expected to win

i never saw any mention of that anywhere.

maybe HE expected to win, but every candidate does.
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