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T.I.R.T 4.0 - The Suh Apologizometer Score (out of 100)
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detfan782004

Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 39302
Location: Montana

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject:

X_Factor_40 wrote:

ugLymayNe wrote:

X_Factor_40 wrote:

Lets just do that and leave the hate for the teams to take care of during the season.

Easy enough(you'll feel the broom again this year).

That doesn't phase me. When you've been a Lions fan as long as I have we're used to it. Laughing

But, one year (and it has to start sometime - maybe this year Wink

) the Lions will take the next step and surprise you. They still have a long way to go in my eyes before we talk about them on the same level as the Packers and other teams around the league, or lock them down for a playoff. But, they have some very talented pieces and are taking steps in the right direction. One day they'll fully turn the corner and really surprise some people. Cool

Hopefully that surprise is cutting Berry and Culbreath please
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FFMD II AGM- DETROIT LIONS

JBURGE25

Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 5851
Location: Canadia

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject:

detfan782004 wrote:

ramonesfan wrote:

GBPackers79 wrote:

JustisM wrote:

Yeah. Also no one wants him in Green Bay. I don't think a single poster was excited when they picked him back up this year.

This is the big thing for me. I don't understand the vehement defense of the team. I can say almost certainly that if we had seven arrests this offseason, I would be crucifying this team, not defending them and saying everyone has these issues.

Jolly, for example, is a moron.

The thing is, besides the one poster, most Lions fans on this board and that I know are embarrassed by what is going on with this team. The ones I know and talk to are sick that Schwartz was given an extension in the midst of all the player issues.

The truth is that actions of the coach rub off on players. I know that with the basketball teams I coach, if I complain about refs, they complain about refs. If I show negativity towards them, they show negativity towards each other. The second Jim Schwartz chased Harbaugh down the field to start an argument the Lions team seemed to step up to his example and have seen player mentality take a negative turn. The Suh stomp, the DUI's, the league lead in personal fouls started WITH JIM SCHWARTZ.

Havent defended THEIR individual actions. I condemned every single action. Simply stating its a league wide program. However saying people sick Schwartz was extended is hilarious. There are very FEW that are sick they resigned coach who took them to playoffs for first time since the 90s.

This is beyond the HC. That is my issue. Placing all the blame on Schwartz is ignorant. The HC can not babysit these ADULTS 24-7. That is my issue.

Berry still being on the team is not Schwartz fault. Who knows what he wants behind closed doors. I have not seen one statement that Jim went to Mayhew and said we need this guy. Mayhew should have cut that BUM a while ago. Same with Culbreath.

Fairley and LeShoure get to stay simply because of youth, talent and draft status. That is way this works as a business unfortunately. Other teams are able to cut the morons who mess up because typically they are not high picks.

Kenny Britt is a perfect example. You wont see Ten cutting him right now. The talent outweighs the issues. Eventually if this keeps up the fulcrum will shift and the issues will outweigh the talent. That point has not come.

If Detroit was the ONLY team having issues which they arent it would weight differently. Fact is the other teams with issues are making this LeShoure and Fairley crap less significant (not saying its not significant but the league isssues as whole make it less).

I hope both LeShoure and Fairley get 4 games each! Hopefully this will sink in.

I put 75-90% of the blame on the scouting and Mayhew for drafting guys with character. Jim has say in who is on the team but he ULTIMATELY does not cut or draft guys.

Hopefully before season starts the likes of Berry, Culbreath are gone and Fairley and LeShoure are in street clothes until week 5.

Well there. That sounds much more reasonable. Just had to say that in the first place
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th87

Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 317

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject:

diehardlionfan wrote:

So perhaps before you throw stones you should really know your teams history. They have had such fine individuals as Jolly on their roster. He makes the Lions players that have had legal issues look like saints. Wink

Jolly was an addict that couldn't get over his sizzurp habit. How does that equate?
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BobSacamano

Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 12732

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject:

This Berry guy sounds like a real winner. Arrested for pulling a gun too?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/22/lions-aaron-berry-arrested-on-three-counts-of-simple-assault/
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KingTarvaris7 wrote:

last year's vikings were far better than the packers team that just won

skatebeanz

Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 17463
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject:

Sandybaby716 wrote:

GBPackers79 wrote:

14 for Detroit, 17 for GB in the past decade:

http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/?appSession=1464934882721&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=2&cpipage=5&CPISortType=desc&CPIorderBy=Team

So maybe these things are cyclical, but this is a disastrous offseason for Detroit and one I don't remember GB ever having. But hey, at least we're both well behind the Vikings with their league leading 39!

I decided to look into it more. Since Jan 2009, when Schwartz was hired, there have been 7 arrests in 4 years for the Lions, or 1.75 arrests per year.

Since Jan 2006, when Mac was hired, there have been 9 arrests in 7 years (I can't include Jolly's third because he wasn't on the roster for his third arrest). That's 1.28 arrests per season.

What's interesting to me is that, if you discount all arrests in the first year that the coach was in (being that his impact on their lives at that point was insignificant and that they were still more shaped by previous coaching staffs), The Packers number goes down to 7 in 6 years, while the Lions percentage actually rises to 7 in 3 years. That's literally twice more per year than the Packers.

Finally, the smoking gun. Those seven arrests for the Packers were from Barnett, Underwood (2), Jolly (2), Havner, and Walden. The only one who is still on the roster is Walden, and he is a bit of a long-shot to make the team this season.

Of those seven arrests for the Lions, all four players are still on the roster, two of which are being counted on as future cornerstones of the team.

Next time a Lions fan tells me that we have criminals too, I'm just going to link them to this.

That is because the Packers one's have had time for them to be removed. Unless you want the Lions to release a first round pick 1 year after being drafted before his second training camp it makes no sense. Berry will be off the team soon I can tell you that. Also, why is Schwartz responsible when he can have 0 contact with the players until camp starts. He can't talk to them. How can he keep them in line when he can't even talk to them?
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detfan782004 wrote:

If he [Ansah] doesn't exceed career sacks this year I'm calling it a bust, all 4.5

GBPackers79

Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 19239
Location: New Jersey

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject:

X_Factor_40 wrote:

DetroitWhat wrote:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=494817

Go have at em boys.

Seriously? This type of behavior is ridiculous.

Anyone is welcome to talk about the Lions, but all I ask is that we keep it civil. It doesn't take much for emotions to blur the lines here.

The whole "Go have at em' boys" is an unacceptable attitude. We are all here to talk football. Lets just do that and leave the hate for the teams to take care of during the season.

I was going to say something because I thought he was a GB fan trolling, but turns out he's one of yours. Laughing

On the topic of Schwartz - these guys are not breaking the law because of his behavior. I've said this before, if you want to blame someone, blame the guys who make the draft picks. The Lions seem to have more guys with character issues than most other teams. That's why I have a problem with saying it's a "league wide issue". There have been many arrests across the board, yes, but this one single team is standing out as the worst.
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packerbacker87 on the sig

Arodsmightybelt wrote:

Sam Barrington, whose dat? he a championship?

RashaanSalaami

Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 29100
Location: Jersey

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject:

skatebeanz wrote:

Sandybaby716 wrote:

GBPackers79 wrote:

I'm pretty sure Schwartz is able to talk to them. I thought it was just last year because of the lockout that coaches/organizations couldn't talk to their players. This year is a normal year, where I'm pretty sure coaches and players are free to talk.
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skatebeanz

Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 17463
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject:

RashaanSalaami wrote:

Nope. The new CBA says the players get a full vacation during the offseason. They can't have contact. At least that is what I read.
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detfan782004 wrote:

If he [Ansah] doesn't exceed career sacks this year I'm calling it a bust, all 4.5

PossibleCabbage

Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 2447

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject:

skatebeanz wrote:

RashaanSalaami wrote:

Nope. The new CBA says the players get a full vacation during the offseason. They can't have contact. At least that is what I read.

Article 21 section 6 of the 2011 CBA is titled "Pre-Training Camp Period" and reads:

Quote:

During the period beginning with the end of the offseason program and ending with the mandatory reporting date for preseason training camp, no player shall be permitted to participate in any organized workouts or organized football activity of any kind, or any football activity with any coach, on either a voluntary or involuntary basis, in connection with or on behalf of the Club or a Club Affiliate. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, during the five consecutive days immediately prior to the mandatory veteran reporting date for each Club's preseason training camp (as specified in Article 23, Section 5), no veteran player (other than (i) quarterbacks and (ii) other players who (1) were on Injured Reserve, Physically Unable to Perform or Nonfootball Injury or Illness list at the end of the previous season; or (2) failed a physical examination given by a team physician at any time after the last game of the previous season; or (3) sustained a football-related or nonfootball-related injury or illness during the offseason; or (4) had surgery during the offseason regarding a football or nonfootball-related condition regardless of when such condition arose) shall be permitted to participate in any organized workouts or other organized football activity of any kind, or any football activity with any coach, on either a voluntary or involuntary basis, in connection with or on behalf of the Club or Club Affiliate. (Except that a player in categories (ii) (1)-(4) above who fully participates in all Phase Three activities and the Mandatory Veteran Minicamp during the club's offseason workout program shall not be permitted to participate during this five day period.) This prohibition shall apply notwithstanding any other provision of the Agreement, or any provision in any Player Contract. Notwithstanding the above, nothing in this Section shall prevent any player from using any Club facility, subject to League rules and the Club's permission, to work out on his own at any time on a voluntary basis without the participation of any coach, trainer, or other Club personnel. Nothing in the Section shall prohibit organized player activity in personal appearances or promotional activities on behalf of the Club or the League that the player has agreed to.

I'm not a lawyer, but a naive reading of the above clearly states that coaches and players are not allowed to discuss football with each other, but it does not appear that any other contact (like, say discussing off-field behavior) is prohibited.

Dubyajay

Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1353

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

skatebeanz wrote:

RashaanSalaami wrote:

Nope. The new CBA says the players get a full vacation during the offseason. They can't have contact. At least that is what I read.

Article 21 section 6 of the 2011 CBA is titled "Pre-Training Camp Period" and reads:

Quote:

There goes that excuse.
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McThreadski wrote:

Fear of re-injuring is a real thing. Years ago, I messed up my left leg in a freak break dancing incident... I never recovered mentally from it and I no longer "own" the dance floor at weddings and bar mitzvahs.

Sandybaby716

Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3526
Location: Rhode Island

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject:

skatebeanz wrote:

They don't need to release them, but by allowing him to get off with no punishment from the team, they are sending a message that certain guys are above the team. So players like him, Suh, and Leshoure feel they can't be punished by the Lions for any of their actions because they were drafted so highly, and run to the GM and Coach to cry whenever the NFL punishes them.

There are good guys on that team like Stafford and Calvin who need to ascend to leadership roles that make it clear that they won't tolerate poor behavior. When any Lion gets arrested, it makes the entire team look bad. The fact that we're talking about them as a misbehaved team is directly the fault of 5 or 6 individuals.
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wgbeethree wrote:

In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party.

Blount_truth

Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 400

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:42 am Post subject:

Sandybaby716 wrote:

skatebeanz wrote:

When players are going to the sideline trying to calm down their coach I think that's pretty evident there's a bit of immaturity stemming from the top. (raiola during the week 17 match up) even Calvin got down and childish in that game with bush.

I understand that maybe the lions like the fire schwartz brings but you have to draw the line somewhere. You can't consistently win when you take that many penalties for things so unnecessary
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MNPackfan32

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 5554

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:31 am Post subject:

I don't understand what arrests really has do do with anything. Look at if they were convicted or not. Like Walden and Underwood, they should never have put themselves in that position, but both got the charges dropped. Pretty much every arrest the Lions have had, it looks like a charge will be filed and the player will be convicted, but we will have to wait and see.

PackFan4Life

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 3530
Location: De Pere, WI

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:16 am Post subject:

BobSacamano wrote:

This Berry guy sounds like a real winner. Arrested for pulling a gun too?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/22/lions-aaron-berry-arrested-on-three-counts-of-simple-assault/

Schwartz should have told them to cut him after the drunk driving arrest. I got warned for "trolling" or whatever the hell that is because I mentioned as much. Then this? I understand the legal process has to work its way through on those charges, but you do not need to wait on the drunk driving thing. You simply make the cut there and make the statement. Still no leadership on this issue there.

I am even fine with them working with Fairly and LeShoure on getting them maybe just a game or two suspensions. Those are players that may have a future on that team and could be amongst their core contributors. I mentioned the truth, that Berry is simply just another Rodgers whipping boy, and they did not like that bit of truth either, stating I did not know their team and that their staff liked Berry and thought he was going to be a core contributor as their #2 CB. If they do not do the right thing, make the statement, and cut the scrub for his recklessness off the field, Rodgers is going like seeing Berry lined up as the #2 CB in the kitty uniform.

PackFan4Life

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 3530
Location: De Pere, WI

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:00 am Post subject:

MNPackfan32 wrote:

There's the difference, you let the legal process work through on some accusations because that is what they are. It is not an accusation if you get arrested because you got nailed for blowing a DUI. That is pretty much science, not an accusation.

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