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Should Arsene Wenger be praised?
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ElReyDeLosReyes


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote



Arsene Wenger. Arsenal FC's manager. French. Stingy with the check book.

Now, I know that there is still another half to the English Premier League, but for a team many thought were going to get relegated in the summer and during the beginning of the season. To be 4th in the table currently is impressive. Every year people doubt Arsenal simply because they always sell quality, but never actually buy back quality of those departing. But, somehow they make it through.

Sure, the club probably has the money to greatly improve the squad and Wenger is certainly looks instead at improving the club's debt rather than actually inject some serious money and add some quality players rather than buy average players or young players with potential. But, I think it speaks to his managerial abilities of how he is able to compete even though it could be much better.

Yes, I will acknowledge that a huge boost to Arsenal is that Robin van Persie is in the form of his live and is actually healthy (*knocks on wood*) scoring on all cylinders. His ability to mask the team missing departures of former captain Cesc Fàbregas to Barcelona, French playmaker Samir Nasri to Manchester City has been impressive, and has been unable to call a Jack Wilshere who has been out for months injured.

Sir Alex Ferguson and he are probably the most annoying manager come transfer windows recently to fans for their respective clubs in the world as they say they always say they have money but won't spent just to spend or can't find anything in this market when they are constantly missing out on good potential deals. But, they always manage to keep their team competitive and always near top of the table.

Also, on the European front, while Arsenal had to qualify in a playoff round to be in the Champion League this season against Udinese. They actually made it to the Round 16 while the team that Samir Nasri went to will probably win the EPL title, but won't have the pleasure of football that players in Europe crave the most. Champions League football.

Arsene Wenger. A top manager who keeps the club very competitive. Even though one could see that if he would actually spend money that should be available to him would have the potential to make the club greater with real established talent such as Gotze and not weak potential such as Denílson.
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RoxSox2004


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Arsene Wenger. A top manager who keeps the club very competitive. Even though one could see that if he would actually spend money that should be available to him would have the potential to make the club greater with real established talent such as Gotze and not weak potential such as Denílson.


We aren't Madrid. Arsenal have money, but they can't exactly throw a blank check at another club when they want a player. We made bids for M'Vila, Hazard, and Gotze. All were rejected. He made a serious effort to capture a world class player, but couldn't do it realistically. That's what caused the 'panic buys' of Arteta, Mertesacker and Park.

And yes, he deserves praise. If you told me in August that we would be in 4th place, two points clear of Chelsea and Liverpool, I'd be ecstatic. Early on, it looked like we would be fighting to stay in the top half. For the work he's done this season, he deserves admiration.
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The Wyzzinator


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top post ElRey.

It definitely speaks volumes about Wenger that he has been able to take a team (mainly through his captain RVP) from 17th place, 5 games into the season all the way to 4th at the midway point. He actually broke his mold a bit buying more experienced players in Arteta and Mertesacker (who has been steadily improving).

Hopefully we at least bring in some reinforcements his January, but Arsenal fans shouldn't expect anything that would unbalance our books too much. As long as we can keep the CL spot, and keep RVP, then I think we're about 2 years away from being competitive in the league and CL.

Remember, the Invincibles were AW's first team, though he did inherit some players that gave the team grit, but this new breed of Gunners is a lot more sound defensively than the 4-4-3 score more goals than the opponent Gunners in the Cesc Fabregas era. That being said, we aren't the sexy team in the EPL anymore and I'm fine with that (I'd say Man City or Tottenham have that to compete for)
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Davey


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you look at two things.

The form of Robin van Persie has been absolutely sensational. He scored the only goal this past fixture against QPR, a stunner against Everton for the only goal, the only two goals against Norwich for Arsenal(after being down 1-0), a hat trick against Chelsea(including the go-ahead and the nail in the coffin), and the two in a 2-1 win against Sunderland. Think of where they would be right now if they had to rely on say, Marouane Chamakh to spearhead attacks. In this sense it's a bit of luck - Robin van Persie has been fortunate avoiding injuries and if he had missed a lot of the first half of this season like he had last season Arsenal wouldn't be close to where they are now.

In terms of being in fourth place specifically, you've got to look at the disappointments that have been Chelsea's defense and Liverpool's finishing in allowing Arsenal to slip by through dropped points. There's hardly any excuse for Aston Villa for example to beat Chelsea at the Bridge, and Liverpool have allowed the likes of Norwich, Swansea and Blackburn to come to Anfield and leave with a point. Without van Persie to come to the rescue in games like mentioned above, perhaps we'd be speaking of Arsenal in the same breath.

That's not to say they're bound to fall off or anything. I'm just saying that I wouldn't put this on the feet of Arsene Wenger and hail him a hero. That will come if/when Arsenal are back competing for top honors both domestically and in Europe.
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ukjets21


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:

Now, I know that there is still another half to the English Premier League, but for a team many thought were going to get relegated in the summer and during the beginning of the season. To be 4th in the table currently is impressive.


I'm sorry but no one thought Arsenal were getting relegated, especially in the summer. Just as no one really thought Liverpool were getting relegated the season before, the lowest expectation I had of Arsenal was 6th, which with the constant threat of a RVP injury is still very possible.

Now Wenger deserves praise as one of the great managers, but it's not like he took a promoted club to 4th place, he kept a perennial Champions League team in those spots and surviving the loss of Fabregas and Nasri. And Arsenal don't buy top talent because they don't pay the wages other clubs do, that's to blame not Wenger.
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yankee0724


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

ukjets21 wrote:
ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:

Now, I know that there is still another half to the English Premier League, but for a team many thought were going to get relegated in the summer and during the beginning of the season. To be 4th in the table currently is impressive.


I'm sorry but no one thought Arsenal were getting relegated, especially in the summer. Just as no one really thought Liverpool were getting relegated the season before, the lowest expectation I had of Arsenal was 6th, which with the constant threat of a RVP injury is still very possible.

Now Wenger deserves praise as one of the great managers, but it's not like he took a promoted club to 4th place, he kept a perennial Champions League team in those spots and surviving the loss of Fabregas and Nasri. And Arsenal don't buy top talent because they don't pay the wages other clubs do, that's to blame not Wenger.


I approve of this post. Anybody who actually thought that Arsenal would be relegated should probably stop watching sports in general.
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kempus


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

yankee0724 wrote:
ukjets21 wrote:
ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:

Now, I know that there is still another half to the English Premier League, but for a team many thought were going to get relegated in the summer and during the beginning of the season. To be 4th in the table currently is impressive.


I'm sorry but no one thought Arsenal were getting relegated, especially in the summer. Just as no one really thought Liverpool were getting relegated the season before, the lowest expectation I had of Arsenal was 6th, which with the constant threat of a RVP injury is still very possible.

Now Wenger deserves praise as one of the great managers, but it's not like he took a promoted club to 4th place, he kept a perennial Champions League team in those spots and surviving the loss of Fabregas and Nasri. And Arsenal don't buy top talent because they don't pay the wages other clubs do, that's to blame not Wenger.


I approve of this post. Anybody who actually thought that Arsenal would be relegated should probably stop watching sports in general.


I agree as well, I was about to quote that sentence.
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The Wyzzinator


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

kempus wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
ukjets21 wrote:
ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:

Now, I know that there is still another half to the English Premier League, but for a team many thought were going to get relegated in the summer and during the beginning of the season. To be 4th in the table currently is impressive.


I'm sorry but no one thought Arsenal were getting relegated, especially in the summer. Just as no one really thought Liverpool were getting relegated the season before, the lowest expectation I had of Arsenal was 6th, which with the constant threat of a RVP injury is still very possible.

Now Wenger deserves praise as one of the great managers, but it's not like he took a promoted club to 4th place, he kept a perennial Champions League team in those spots and surviving the loss of Fabregas and Nasri. And Arsenal don't buy top talent because they don't pay the wages other clubs do, that's to blame not Wenger.


I approve of this post. Anybody who actually thought that Arsenal would be relegated should probably stop watching sports in general.


I agree as well, I was about to quote that sentence.


Well yeah other than people trolling, everyone probably thought Arsenal were destined to finish behind surging Liverpool and Chelsea, and perhaps even Newcastle. Lot of football to be played, but with Liverpool's injuries/suspensions it's hard to see them nabbing Top 4, however Chelsea will buy some players but I have a feeling they may be Europa bound for now.
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ElReyDeLosReyes


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

RoxSox2004 wrote:
We aren't Madrid. Arsenal have money, but they can't exactly throw a blank check at another club when they want a player. We made bids for M'Vila, Hazard, and Gotze. All were rejected. He made a serious effort to capture a world class player, but couldn't do it realistically. That's what caused the 'panic buys' of Arteta, Mertesacker and Park.


Juan Mata, for example, was a very realistic buy last summer, but Arsene didn't fight enough. You can buy players of quality without throwing a blank check to the club.

ukjets21 wrote:
I'm sorry but no one thought Arsenal were getting relegated, especially in the summer.

I don't write things to simply write them.

Feel free to check the previous Arsenal thread and the previous Transfers & Rumors thread comments when Fàbregas was sold. Also when Arsenal started horrible to the season including the blowout to Manchester United. They could of been panicky posts, but the feeling was there.
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kempus


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:
ukjets21 wrote:
I'm sorry but no one thought Arsenal were getting relegated, especially in the summer.

I don't write things to simply write them.

Feel free to check the previous Arsenal thread and the previous Transfers & Rumors thread comments when Fàbregas was sold. Also when Arsenal started horrible to the season including the blowout to Manchester United. They could of been panicky posts, but the feeling was there.


In this case you have written it just for dramatic effect. Nobody thought Arsenal would get relegated, I have no idea where you got that idea from.
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RoxSox2004


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Juan Mata, for example, was a very realistic buy last summer, but Arsene didn't fight enough. You can buy players of quality without throwing a blank check to the club.


It wasn't a case of not fighting enough. We were prepared to spend 24m on Mata. But we were offering him ~70k per week. Chelsea ended up paying him close to 200k. We just can't contend with that.
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ElReyDeLosReyes


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

kempus wrote:
In this case you have written it just for dramatic effect. Nobody thought Arsenal would get relegated, I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Relegated and comments that Arsene would get sacked. Also, that this team would be in a tough fight.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12166370#12166370

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12119196#12119196

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12036968#12036968

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12118837#12118837

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12119189#12119189

If this isn't enough, than oh well.
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The Wyzzinator


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good research ElRey.. I don't think it backs up any relegation claims because most of those were just knee-jerk, but it certainly lends credibility to the original post as a whole.
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kempus


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:
kempus wrote:
In this case you have written it just for dramatic effect. Nobody thought Arsenal would get relegated, I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Relegated and comments that Arsene would get sacked. Also, that this team would be in a tough fight.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12166370#12166370

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12119196#12119196

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12036968#12036968

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12118837#12118837

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12119189#12119189

If this isn't enough, than oh well.


Not one person said anything about relgation there, the most dramatic people were saying Arsenal will struggle to get in the Champions League. That is a VERY big difference from what you're claiming.
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LeeEvans


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was actually talking to a friend of mine about this a couple days ago. Very good post btw El Rey. I think Arsene does deserve some credit for holding his team together when they could have very easily just completely collapsed and really been in trouble. That being said it is his fault they were in that situation to begin with, his lack of spending really caught up to them and they aren't, and may never be under him, title contenders. He did make some good signings at the end of the transfer window to steady the ship(namely Arteta) but they aren't the kind of players that you would have on a squad that would challenge for the title.

He's done very well this season at working with what he has and has managed to get to the last 16 in the CL and are in good position to finish in the top four. I think it says something about the direction Arsenal is going if those are considered accomplishments though.
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