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northernpackfan
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 1690
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 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Polaris wrote: | | Yeah, like when Columbus had all the relevant information before he sailed, or when Lewis and Clark had all the relevant information before they started out. I seem to recall that the operation which killed bin Laden was launched even though they weren't completely sure he was even there. |
 I'm not even sure I know where to begin. Columbus was trying to find a trade route to India, the fact that he "discovered" America, was pure fluke. Lewis and Clark, like Columbus, were explorers, trying to navigate an unknown continent. None of these men ignored available information - which is what you are suggesting Thompson, McCarthy and McKenzie are doing when you assert that they made up their minds before consulting the surgeon. Lewis, Clark, and Columbus may not have had all the information, but you can bet they took into account all of the information that was available to them.
| Polaris wrote: | | I chose the Thalidomide example because it's a direct example of a big decision with real consequences. But I could have chosen many, many others because there are such an abundance of them. How many people get married without knowing all the relevant facts? I know I did....26 years ago. I decided to have kids without knowing all the facts. I became a school teacher without knowing all the facts. I joined the Army without knowing all the facts. And every one of those decisions has had bad consequences, good consequences, and unforeseen consequences. |
I don't want this to become insulting, so I will do my best to navigate through your life decisions without being critical.
When it comes to marriage, I fully believe that many people enter this commitment without doing their due diligence, and that is why the divorce rate is approximately 50%. Many people rush into marriage relying solely on their emotions, not considering the long-term implications of their actions. While some of these marriages survive, I'd be willing to bet that the majority don't, and that one of the most common reasons would be that they "rushed into it".
As for your life decisions, I think that you are confusing "not knowing the facts" with "not considering all of the relevant information". Nobody can know everything, but they'd be a fool to ignore available information, especially when it comes from a source that is far more knowledgeable about the topic than you are.
I'd hope you didn't get married without first getting to know your future spouse and her family. I'm sure you knew her religious beliefs, thoughts on children, and career aspirations, did you not? Would you really have gone through with it without having those discussions?
I'd also hope you didn't enter the army without first consulting with someone who had been in, or was currently in the armed forces. And even if you didn't, I'm sure you wouldn't have turned down the opportunity to do so, had that been offered to you.
There is no way to know for sure what will come of a decision, but you can limit the unforeseen if you consider all the available information. A person wouldn't be surprised to be shot if they enrolled in the army during a war, and they wouldn't be surprised to get divorced if they married someone who was morally different than they were.
| Polaris wrote: | | I love that you believe that the world runs on rational decisions made by rational people using relevant facts and information. You will find out that is not true. |
I'm not under any misguided notion of how the world works. I realize that there are an abundance of fools in decision-making positions, but I don't believe Thompson to be one of them. |
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ajdodge09
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 4005
Location: Jobland looking for jobbies.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:14 am Post subject: |
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The "Would you let him play if he was your son?" thing is bull. He's his football coach, not his father. I could easily see this whole situation being pretty much decided already, and we just aren't hearing anything because of how secretive TT is with his draft picks.
My two cents.
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Polaris
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 3027
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate that you weren't insulting. Hey, like everybody else, I've made choices and some worked out better than others. But I think you're missing my point. I think you're coming from a perspective of rational people making rational decisions based on empirical evidence and I'm saying it's not like that.
To continue the Columbus analogy (and btw, some of you people here are freakin' analogy Nazis "NO ANALOGIES FOR YOU!!") I understand that hard is to soft as long is to short isn't exactly the same but they don't have to be to make the point.
Columbus used the available info. Of course, the available info said the planet was smaller than it really was and didn't include the big land mass. People who flock to Las Vegas know the data that the odds favor the house and yet they gamble away billions every year. There's a ton of data and information on political candidates and yet millions of people arrive at separate conclusions and no, it's not because they're stupid.
Decisions are made at the top, and in this case, that means Ted Thompson, not Dr. McKenzie or Nick's surgeon. Of course, he's going to seek their input just as he sought Coach McCarthy's input.
He's going to use his own judgement and part of person's judgement comes from their values and beliefs. And if it is his belief that Nick should retire then that's going to be reflected in his judgement. |
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Pugger
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 4324
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:02 am Post subject: |
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If Nick is cleared to play football again I wouldn't be all that thrilled to see him playing for another team. I'd prefer to have him play for us if he doesn't want to retire. I'm finding it interesting that there hasn't been an announcement yet - unless all of the parties haven't met yet.
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GBPACKMAN4LIFE
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 16366
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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This thread........LOL.
I just hope it's announced soon.
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| cpnesdude41 wrote: | | hope you guys aren't at work.. cuz ur about to get bonerzz. |
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packattack86
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 2655
Location: Ventura,California
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I bet TT and MM know the prognosis by now but they are just keeping it under wraps until after the draft. That way other teams won't know if TT needs a safety.
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RiotPunch
Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 992
Location: Madison
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| packattack86 wrote: | | I bet TT and MM know the prognosis by now but they are just keeping it under wraps until after the draft. That way other teams won't know if TT needs a safety. |
That's probably what I would do. It's definitely a card in our hand for the draft as far as what we're going to need.
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cpnesdude41
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 1459
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| GBPACKMAN4LIFE wrote: | This thread........LOL.
I just hope it's announced soon. |
I'm with this guy..
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JBURGE25
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 5851
Location: Canadia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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AAAHHHHHH so excited! I hope he does. Him and Burnett makes me happy  Woodson, and Tramon hopefully returns to 2010 form and that competes for sure with the top secondary in the league
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Sandybaby716
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3526
Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| JBURGE25 wrote: | | AAAHHHHHH so excited! I hope he does. Him and Burnett makes me happy Woodson, and Tramon hopefully returns to 2010 form and that competes for sure with the top secondary in the league |
The return of Collins would really put us in the running. If the pass rush improves, then I expect Tramon and Shields to be much more effective. Use a couple of draft picks on the front seven and our defense could be top ten again.
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| wgbeethree wrote: | | In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party. |
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PackFan4Life
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 3530
Location: De Pere, WI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Sandybaby716 wrote: | | JBURGE25 wrote: | | AAAHHHHHH so excited! I hope he does. Him and Burnett makes me happy Woodson, and Tramon hopefully returns to 2010 form and that competes for sure with the top secondary in the league |
The return of Collins would really put us in the running. If the pass rush improves, then I expect Tramon and Shields to be much more effective. Use a couple of draft picks on the front seven and our defense could be top ten again. |
You add Collins back to this group and improve the pass rush and the defense is going to be a turnover machine again IMO. That defense lacked the security Collins provides over the top and his sound tackling ability. |
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BobSacamano
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 12732
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: |
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/147920795.html
| Quote: | Packers S Nick Collins is seeking opinions from five different spinal surgeons to help evaluate the results of recent tests. Both Collins' agent, Alan Herman, and the Packers want a consensus on the evaluation of whether it would be safe for Collins to return following cervical fusion surgery.
Collins' surgeon, Frank Camissa, met with Collins several weeks ago to put him through a series of tests to determine how the fustion surgery went. Collins wants to return to the game, but he has agreed that if there is anything abnormal with the final results of the surgery, he will retire.
Because of the complexity of the iinjury and the relatively small sample of individuals who have successfully eeturned from single-level spinal fusion - particularly defensive backs - other specialists are being consulted. All parties involved want to make sure the risk isn't too great for Collins to return
There will be no decision on Collins' status until after all the doctors have weighed in, so it could be anywhere from a couple of weeks to a month before a decision is made on his status.
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| KingTarvaris7 wrote: | | last year's vikings were far better than the packers team that just won |
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PackFan4Life
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 3530
Location: De Pere, WI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| I read that online last night too. What does it mean? Right now not much. Cautious optimism. Collins surgeon probably cleared him but the team wants multiple surgeons that agree with Collins surgeon. |
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incognito_man
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 26371
Location: Madison
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| PackFan4Life wrote: | | I read that online last night too. What does it mean? Right now not much. Cautious optimism. Collins surgeon probably cleared him but the team wants multiple surgeons that agree with Collins surgeon. |
And I suspect they will get a similar "thumbs up" from each and every surgeon. The medical side is I'm guessing fairly black and white. It's great that everyone is getting as many expert opinions as possible, but I suspect the verdict will still ultimately be that Nick is under no increased risk of future injury as he was pre-surgery. |
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msmre
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 20329
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| incognito_man wrote: | | PackFan4Life wrote: | | I read that online last night too. What does it mean? Right now not much. Cautious optimism. Collins surgeon probably cleared him but the team wants multiple surgeons that agree with Collins surgeon. |
And I suspect they will get a similar "thumbs up" from each and every surgeon. The medical side is I'm guessing fairly black and white. It's great that everyone is getting as many expert opinions as possible, but I suspect the verdict will still ultimately be that Nick is under no increased risk of future injury as he was pre-surgery. |
For two weeks, we'll hear that
a.) Collins got turned down and he's looking for someone to back him.
b.) Collins got the thumbs up, but TT, MM, and MM want more evidence or they won't clear him.
c.) Collins got the thumbs up and wants to confirm it with more opinions.
In reality, we don't know and we are speculating about a man's health and livelihood like it is a roll of the dice.
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