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Texansfan713
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 23886
Location: Houston
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 Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Allen may have impressive numbers, but so did Suggs. 7 force fumbles in a season? That's damn near impressive. I know his previous season high in a season was 6, but still.
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Frank Costello
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 8817
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Jared Allen got snubbed. The reason why people are saying different is it's not a 'sexy' pick. But the guy flat out dominated all year, most of you didn't watch every Viking game like we did. He was all over the field, sometimes like a LB.
Strahan set the record with a MUCH better defense and with some help from Brett Favre. Allen had no where near close to any of that going for him.
Suggs is a tremendous player and one of my favorites. But he is surrounded by ample talent. That should cancel out his vote alone.
Again, Allen isn't the hot pick due to our team playing terrible. But he did more with less and I would even venture to bet he was a more constant force all year long. (Not just sacks)
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Frank Costello
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 8817
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Nzd07 wrote: | Terrible... I guess 22 sacks dosen't mean anything anymore. It's kinda funny cuz if Allen had gotten .5 more sacks you'd all be saying he should've won by a mile...
Edit: If Allen had Ngata he'd have 25+ sacks. Book it. |
Excellent point.
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YlionsY
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 14226
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Frank Costello wrote: | Jared Allen got snubbed. The reason why people are saying different is it's not a 'sexy' pick. But the guy flat out dominated all year, most of you didn't watch every Viking game like we did. He was all over the field, sometimes like a LB.
Strahan set the record with a MUCH better defense and with some help from Brett Favre. Allen had no where near close to any of that going for him.
Suggs is a tremendous player and one of my favorites. But he is surrounded by ample talent. That should cancel out his vote alone.
Again, Allen isn't the hot pick due to our team playing terrible. But he did more with less and I would even venture to bet he was a more constant force all year long. (Not just sacks) |
Given the fact that Suggs played great w/o Lewis around and that Strahan had a great year outside of sacks compared to Allen its not surprising.
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o_0
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 4622
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Justin Smith got robbed. 3-4 DEs get no love... 
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| BP wrote: | | One late season surge and postseason run doesn't make Kaep a better QB than Carson Palmer |
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Integrity
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3878
Location: Columbia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| TomRalph wrote: | | At least one of the Ravens gets some hardware this season. |
I hope you enjoy your Lamar Hunt trophy. 
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skywlker32
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2575
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| YlionsY wrote: | | Frank Costello wrote: | Jared Allen got snubbed. The reason why people are saying different is it's not a 'sexy' pick. But the guy flat out dominated all year, most of you didn't watch every Viking game like we did. He was all over the field, sometimes like a LB.
Strahan set the record with a MUCH better defense and with some help from Brett Favre. Allen had no where near close to any of that going for him.
Suggs is a tremendous player and one of my favorites. But he is surrounded by ample talent. That should cancel out his vote alone.
Again, Allen isn't the hot pick due to our team playing terrible. But he did more with less and I would even venture to bet he was a more constant force all year long. (Not just sacks) |
Given the fact that Suggs played great w/o Lewis around and that Strahan had a great year outside of sacks compared to Allen its not surprising. |
I wouldn't be so sure about Strahan's year being more impressive aside from sacks.
Allen
46 tackles
22.0 sacks
4 forced fumbles
4 recovered fumbles
1 interception
4 passes defended
1 safety
0 TD
Strahan
62 tackles
22.5 sacks
6 forced fumbles
1 recovered fumbles
0 interception
2 passes defended
0 safety
1 TD
So, while Strahan had more tackles, forced fumbles, and TDs, Allen had more fumble recoveries, interceptions, passes defended and safeties. I don't think you can differentiate the two based on stats at least.
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Baltimore Pride
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2319
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Integrity wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | At least one of the Ravens gets some hardware this season. |
I hope you enjoy your Lamar Hunt trophy. |
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BlaqOptic
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 26286
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Baltimore Pride wrote: | | Integrity wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | At least one of the Ravens gets some hardware this season. |
I hope you enjoy your Lamar Hunt trophy. |
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I'm pretty sure a LaMarr Hunt Trophy > No Trophies... Just saying... and I hate sticking up for the Patriots.
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| sayheykid wrote: | | Eksynyt wrote: | | Some people on here brag about the Seahawks having a defense...where is it? |
It's having a hard time concentrating. |
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renndawg37
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 1152
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| BlaqOptic wrote: | | Baltimore Pride wrote: | | Integrity wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | At least one of the Ravens gets some hardware this season. |
I hope you enjoy your Lamar Hunt trophy. |
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I'm pretty sure a LaMarr Hunt Trophy > No Trophies... Just saying... and I hate sticking up for the Patriots. |
This guy's got it |
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spiritoftruth
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 1967
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| BlaqOptic wrote: | | spiritoftruth wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | Justin Smith and Jared Allen were more deserving. The 49ers defense was far And away the best the league had to offer this season and No player meant more to them than Smith... And that includes All-Pros Bowman, Willis and DRoTY runner up Smith. Suggs got it based on the national spotlight of the HarBowl... Had that been Smith instead he'd have won it. |
Funny you campaigned so hard for James Harrison to get this in 08' vs. Demarcus Ware. Very similar situations and stats. But now that you're not looking at it through black and yellow shades, things seem a bit different... |
Actually no... not comparable at all. But I knew a Ratbirds fan would try and make the comparison.
Harrison:
~ Leader of a top 15 all time defense
~ Sack Fumble vs Baltimore and Safety/Interception vs San Diego were difference between 10-6(6 Seed) and 12-4(2 Seed).
~ Competed w/ only one actual threat; a 20 Sack Guy
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Suggs:
~ Leader of a top 3 in that season defense
~ Interception against Pittsburgh ARGUABLY was difference between 12-4(2 Seed) and 11-5(5 Seed)
~ Competed w/ two viables threats; a 20 sack guy and a guy who was the most important cog on a superior defense.
~
But yeah... the situations were "very" comparable... If Suggs had undeniably made the difference between a W and an L in several games and his defense was a historically good one as opposed to the 3rd best one in his own season in which another guy was just as important to their top 3 defense... But yeah. |
They're comparable in the sense that Ware had a comfortable lead in sacks, while Harrison had more turnovers. Similary Allen beat Suggs by quite a bit in sacks, but Suggs had 4 more turnovers forced, and beat him in just about every other statistic.
Sacks are extremely overvalued, and why people think that having more sacks is significant or contributes to winning more than turnovers forced is beyond me. The voters agree as well.
Justin Smith IMO, had a better argument for DPOY.
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| NextBigThing wrote: | | I am a Patriots fan, I know all about excellence. |
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Integrity
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3878
Location: Columbia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| BlaqOptic wrote: | | Baltimore Pride wrote: | | Integrity wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | | At least one of the Ravens gets some hardware this season. |
I hope you enjoy your Lamar Hunt trophy. |
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I'm pretty sure a LaMarr Hunt Trophy > No Trophies... Just saying... and I hate sticking up for the Patriots. |
That's debatable. First of all, if you hand out some good-natured ribbing when your team wins, you should expect some in return when your team loses. Secondly, if it isn't the Lombardi trophy no one cares. I don't think there's much solace to found in being the first runner up. You should know this.
| renndawg37 wrote: |
This guy's got it |
And so should you.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37208
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| o_0 wrote: | | Justin Smith got robbed. 3-4 DEs get no love... |
JJ Watt agrees. Should of been a frontrunner for DROY, but Von Miller and Aldon Smith get all of the love. 
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kmvoss
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 1663
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| I think if Allen were on the Ravens the vote would be decidedly different. I'm not complaining though, I am thrilled Suggs won the award. I got my Suggs jersey just in time for us to lose to the Patriots and this takes away some of the sting. |
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Frank Costello
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 8817
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| spiritoftruth wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | spiritoftruth wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | Justin Smith and Jared Allen were more deserving. The 49ers defense was far And away the best the league had to offer this season and No player meant more to them than Smith... And that includes All-Pros Bowman, Willis and DRoTY runner up Smith. Suggs got it based on the national spotlight of the HarBowl... Had that been Smith instead he'd have won it. |
Funny you campaigned so hard for James Harrison to get this in 08' vs. Demarcus Ware. Very similar situations and stats. But now that you're not looking at it through black and yellow shades, things seem a bit different... |
Actually no... not comparable at all. But I knew a Ratbirds fan would try and make the comparison.
Harrison:
~ Leader of a top 15 all time defense
~ Sack Fumble vs Baltimore and Safety/Interception vs San Diego were difference between 10-6(6 Seed) and 12-4(2 Seed).
~ Competed w/ only one actual threat; a 20 Sack Guy
~
Suggs:
~ Leader of a top 3 in that season defense
~ Interception against Pittsburgh ARGUABLY was difference between 12-4(2 Seed) and 11-5(5 Seed)
~ Competed w/ two viables threats; a 20 sack guy and a guy who was the most important cog on a superior defense.
~
But yeah... the situations were "very" comparable... If Suggs had undeniably made the difference between a W and an L in several games and his defense was a historically good one as opposed to the 3rd best one in his own season in which another guy was just as important to their top 3 defense... But yeah. |
They're comparable in the sense that Ware had a comfortable lead in sacks, while Harrison had more turnovers. Similary Allen beat Suggs by quite a bit in sacks, but Suggs had 4 more turnovers forced, and beat him in just about every other statistic.
Sacks are extremely overvalued, and why people think that having more sacks is significant or contributes to winning more than turnovers forced is beyond me. The voters agree as well.
Justin Smith IMO, had a better argument for DPOY. |
Because it's harder to get a sack then a regular tackle.If anything you are under valuing the significance of sack just to help your argument.
Sacks can kill a drive, an open field tackle? Less likely.
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Welcome to Minnesota, Greg Jennings.
President of the Sammy Watkins fan club. |
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