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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40613
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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 Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Considering BioWare is all but taking formal surveys on fan response to the ending, I think some sort of tweak is all but assured.
The question is, how far will they go to erase the stain of what we currently have.
Because after watching each of the "good" endings multiple times, I'm convinced that they did basically no QC on them, which is just so, so shameful for having put out what is otherwise an outstanding and polished game.
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sunnygsm
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 9122
Location: Vancouver,BC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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Been on multiplayer since I'm not playing SP. Joined a Gold challenge room with some good players and started raking in the cash (I suck btw, partially because my PC sucks). I was last on the team but I got money  . Nothing handy out of them spectre packs though.
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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 30416
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Ending talk:
| Quote: | | Why are the Reapers preserving us? I get the idea that they are the equivalent of a1M+ year old geth who are super evolved.. but I cant wrap my mind around why they feel the need to preserve us. That is not a logical decision for a synthetic. Why not just kill us? My only guess as then they would have no purpose. |
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Matts4313 wrote: | Ending talk:
| Quote: | | Why are the Reapers preserving us? I get the idea that they are the equivalent of a1M+ year old geth who are super evolved.. but I cant wrap my mind around why they feel the need to preserve us. That is not a logical decision for a synthetic. Why not just kill us? My only guess as then they would have no purpose. |
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It's blue & orange morality. Only the Reapers themselves could comprehend it.
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sunnygsm
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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Location: Vancouver,BC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Matts4313 wrote: | Ending talk:
| Quote: | | Why are the Reapers preserving us? I get the idea that they are the equivalent of a1M+ year old geth who are super evolved.. but I cant wrap my mind around why they feel the need to preserve us. That is not a logical decision for a synthetic. Why not just kill us? My only guess as then they would have no purpose. |
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| Quote: | Don't try to make sense of the ending that makes no sense  . From what I gathered the synthetics had done everything they could, got bored and then started watching organics get too ambitious and get overrun by their synthetics etc. BUT. I'm going to ignore the entire ending and pretend another is coming
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=467pmIX-oZo#!
I like this latest meme. Ending spoiler
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Greg_Jennings
Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 22849
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| ajthefreak wrote: | | i cant seem to unlock any one for mp |
I can't unlock a good gun to save my life. I've got nearly every character already though....
I think they should do a special Weapons Pack instead of this Equipment Pack they're doing.
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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 25294
Location: Courtroom
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Greg_Jennings wrote: | | ajthefreak wrote: | | i cant seem to unlock any one for mp |
I can't unlock a good gun to save my life. I've got nearly every character already though....
I think they should do a special Weapons Pack instead of this Equipment Pack they're doing. |
Ive gotten nothing at all.
Best weapon Ive got is the Mattock and Ive only unlocked the Drell Adept (which is fun for Bronze but pretty useless silver imo) and Turian Sentinel which I havent really had the chance to play around with yet. (did with beta, tech armor really messes up power usage though).
My best is just using the Predator with extra ammo and my engineer class lol.
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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: |
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LOL I just glitched my game. Ill put up pics later.
EDIT: Im pretty sure its glitched because a side mission is glitched..... I cant freaking talk to someone.....
EDIT2: okay apparently when I was typing here and standing next to her, the option came up. can still glitch myself out of the map lol
Okay they are bad quality (3GS iphone FTW) but did anyone accidentally do this?
Might be a bit hard to tell, but its like a blank area with random 2d sprites lol
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Kiltman
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 11018
Location: Flipadelphia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| sunnygsm wrote: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=467pmIX-oZo#!
I like this latest meme. Ending spoiler |
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McNabbMcFadden
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 29174
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Greg_Jennings wrote: | | McNabbMcFadden wrote: | | Greg_Jennings wrote: | | I just realized that Turians remind me of Halo Elites |
Not as cool. |
elites aren't? agreed. |
And I thought we were friends. 
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| LOLKevinKolb wrote: | | oland11 wrote: | | I call Red or Blue ranger. |
Pink it is |
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McNabbMcFadden
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 29174
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NYGiantsman10 wrote: | | sunnygsm wrote: | | Greg_Jennings wrote: | | McNabbMcFadden wrote: | | Greg_Jennings wrote: | | I just realized that Turians remind me of Halo Elites |
Not as cool. |
elites aren't? agreed. |
Garrus for life! ME3 made me like him 1000x more, ultimate alien bro in this game. |
The whole Halo universe can't even touch the Mass Effect universe in any capacity IMO |
The thing with halo is you need to look at backstories not what is just told in the game. It's much deeper then it appears.
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| LOLKevinKolb wrote: | | oland11 wrote: | | I call Red or Blue ranger. |
Pink it is |
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iRaMs
Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 2583
Location: Teletran 1
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Man gf thing is coming over tonight...really killing my ME3 time.
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Robert Quinn
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40613
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, so I thought about the ending some more, and it's starting to make sense.
Bear with me because there's quite a bit of extrapolation here.
| Quote: | Consider for a moment the definitions of the words "crucible" and "catalyst"
A crucible is typically defined as a container used to heat materials to a very high temperature [often used in metallurgy] OR there's the figurative definition, which is a severe, searching test or trial..
Then there's "catalyst" - we can once again ignore the scientific definition and focus on the sociological ones:
something that causes activity between two or more persons or forces without itself being affected.
OR
a person or thing that precipitates an event or change
Viewed through these lenses, it becomes clear that the Crucible was something originally designed not by the Protheans [as Vendetta admits] nor by any of the species that dominated previous cycles [though they did tweak the design], but originally conceived by the Catalyst itself. Why? As a test/trial by which to measure organics - not versus synthetics, but versus himself. This becomes abundantly clear when you think about where the Catalyst resides - the sealed-off core of the Citadel which is not accessible to anyone save [maybe] the Keepers. Shepard becomes the first organic ever to meet it, which means that none of the species of the prior cycles could have known about it. In other words, the Catalyst gives away the game by making itself part of the Crucible's design.
The Catalyst views himself as the highest form of life in the galaxy [and rightfully so], and is likely the culmination of synthetic evolution. He views organics as inferior, but purely from a logical perspective. He values organic life to the extent that he deems it worthy of being 'preserved' but does not trust it to act in its own best interests - thus, 'chaos', to which he posits Reapers as the solution. But the problem with creatures of pure logic is that they can never have full certainty in matters of probability - in other words, he sees a potential situation in which he is proven wrong [incidentally, this is foreshadowed during Mordin's loyalty mission in ME2 where he points out that simulations were run that showed the krogan going into full-scale war against the turians without the genophage - simulations that, through Shepards intervention, can be proven wrong], so he creates a test for organics, and if they pass this test, they can override him. Thus the Crucible is conceived.
The created, in the Catalyst's own words, always rebel against their creators. But in this cycle, thanks to Shepard's actions, peace was made [in the ideal resolution to that arc] not only between the geth and quarians, but also between the krogan [which were 'uplifted' by the salarians and turians, and thus in many ways shaped by them] and the rest of the galaxy. This was the 'chaos' that the Catalyst describes, and which the Reapers were its means of ending; it's the chaos that Shepard manages to put an end to. The plans for the Crucible have existed throughout these cycles, and, by implication, discovered in many of them, by intent of the Catalyst as a means of testing whether organic life was capable of putting an end to the chaos not just of technological singularity, but also of internecine warfare and other seemingly inexorable traits of organic life that prevented it from 'ascending' [i.e. reaching its full potential]. If organics [and synthetics] could not put their differences aside and focus on building the Crucible, they were doomed to extinction - the Reapers would harvest them and force their "ascension" by their own means to make way for the next cycle. The dominant race[s] of every other cycle had failed at this task, not because they weren't sufficiently advanced [after all, the plans for the Crucible were described in the game as being "elegant but simple", suggesting that it did not require an unusually high level of technological sophistication to complete], but because they were unable to make peace and cooperate with one another well enough to complete the test laid before them. The Protheans came close, but as we learn from Javik, their methods of maintaining order in the galaxy were flawed in that they were harsh and imperialistic, and their meddling with less advanced species [most notably the asari] suggested that they would ultimately fall in a war of rebellion at the hands of one or more of the races they had subjugated.
Incidentally, this also explains why, from a symbolic perspective, the batarians were the first species to be effectively wiped out by the Reapers. They refused to cooperate with anybody.
Now contrast this with what Shepard is able to accomplish in a very narrow time frame, and the way in which the war assets mechanic is set up. Shepard gains war assets largely through mediating conflict resolution - in other words, he brings order to the chaos of the galaxy, and the more successful he is in doing this, the better the endgame is by virtue of the Catalyst being convinced that his 'solution' is obsolete. This is also why the more war assets you collect, the more autonomy you have during the ending. After all, the Catalyst is a godlike being that's roughly a billion years old [the oldest Reaper found in the game is said to be that age] - he is still fully capable of exercising his own authority over the puny organic encroaching on his turf, but in seeing a Shepard who has succeeded in fully uniting the galaxy and finding a better solution to the problem of chaos, he concedes that Shepard, and by extension, his cycle, have passed the test and steps aside, giving us the ability to forge our own future. This is why even the 'control' ending is viewed as positive because Shepard, by virtue of his/her actions, has ascended to a level above the Catalyst, and thus becomes the new Catalyst - he has changed the equation. Whereas if Shepard ignores or fails to adequately address certain instances of chaos in the galaxy, the Catalyst views this as a failure and narrows our choices [or, if we did badly enough, outright pulls the rug out from under us by using the Crucible to wipe out all organic life, likely out of despair that we came so close yet could not achieve what we were supposed to].
Even Shepard's name is symbolic if you view things like this. After all, it's another version of "shepherd", and what is a shepherd but a guide?
As for the mass relays being destroyed - consider what we've seen throughout the series. The Protheans were able to create their own prototype mass relay, which still exists on Ilos. We can't know for sure, but logic dictates that at some point after its discovery, it was thoroughly studied by top scientific minds to figure out how it worked. Galactic society and commerce is in shambles, yes, but then you recall that not long before the events of these games, quantum entanglement communication was invented, which allowed users to bypass the use of mass relays for long-distance communications. This suggests that even though it'll likely take years or decades, the framework of galactic society will ultimately be rebuilt without Reaper technology.
Of course, none of this addresses the inadequacy of the final cinematics, but at least it lends some much-needed context to an ending that would otherwise be considered a total cop-out. |
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Greg_Jennings
Joined: 06 Nov 2006
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Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| McNabbMcFadden wrote: | | NYGiantsman10 wrote: | | sunnygsm wrote: | | Greg_Jennings wrote: | | McNabbMcFadden wrote: | | Greg_Jennings wrote: | | I just realized that Turians remind me of Halo Elites |
Not as cool. |
elites aren't? agreed. |
Garrus for life! ME3 made me like him 1000x more, ultimate alien bro in this game. |
The whole Halo universe can't even touch the Mass Effect universe in any capacity IMO |
The thing with halo is you need to look at backstories not what is just told in the game. It's much deeper then it appears. |
The expanded universe does not count.
Also, Elites are just dumb drones following a crazy prophet. Hardly superior, but that's a debate for another time.
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In the end, it wasn't guns or bombs that defeated the aliens. It was the humblest of all God's creatures, the Tyrannosaurus Rex. |
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sunnygsm
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 9122
Location: Vancouver,BC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Very long winded Tsc. But it's all plausible, but that doesn't solve the issue. I had no problem with the concept of the ending, I actually saw parts of it coming actually. It was just too vague and raised too many questions all of which we are having to answer. I know good writing is supposed to do that, make you think but the ending has just left anything open and anything can be made up. Fan fictions are nice but I want some firm truth.
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