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Army
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 1402
Location: Colorado
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 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jsthomp2007 wrote: | | Army wrote: | I think Elwayfan07, and some others on this board, are on to something here.
I think Broncos fans are about to suffer "football shock" when they see the changes that will happen on the field when we have a guy like Manning running the show. Things like playing with a lead, and having to worry less about getting trampled by an opponents running game are going to be a HUGE change, IMO. I think Elwayfan07 who suggests Mercilus, or a GermX who I believe is high on Nick Perry, DE from USC, may be looking outside the box with these picks. I can't help but ask myself "where would the Broncos rank as a pass-rushing team" with another really good pass-rusher? I believe we would be near the top of the NFL. If teams can stop Manning, will we still be weak against the run? Very possibly this could happen from time-to-time during the season. Especially as everybody get's used to a whole new Offense. But, I really like the hell out of our chances. |
I agree with you. I think if they Broncos are playing with solid leads, then they don't have to stop the run that much, they will have to defend the pass...if the quarterback is constantly getting rushed and we have a solid defensive backfield...who can win? |
In a way, I think Dawkins retirement is going to really help our Secondary. As great of a player as Dawkins was, we'd all have to be blind to not see how his game was deteriorating. I loved the hell out of the guy as a leader, on and off the field, and there is no doubt in my mind that Fox would have kept Dawkins on the field as much as possible, for as long as possible.
This will force the issue with our new, up-and-coming Safety's, and it might push us in the direction of a Barron, if he were available. Some folks have Barron, who was previously thought to last to somewhere around our pick, as a Top 10 pick more recently.
But that just means there is one more player available somewhere else. As I've said, no matter how you cut it, there will only be 24 players gone by the time we pick. Throw into that some of the crazy, unexpected, picks from those who didn't do their research, or decided to take a huge chance on a reach, and there will be some solid players available that could surprise us. For instance, one thing that surprised me is that there is a lot of talk I'm hearing that Peter Konz can not only project from Center to Guard, but that he is also projected to RT. But either way, he's seen as a "can't miss" OL prospect at our pick.
It should be exciting. |
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broncos67
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 18118
Location: Capitol Cit-ay
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Who sees Konz as a can't miss prospect? The people who like him? I noticed all the Konz fans here seem to be neglecting his injury issues. Huge red flag for me.
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JerseysFinest27
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 5977
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| broncos67 wrote: | | Who sees Konz as a can't miss prospect? The people who like him? I noticed all the Konz fans here seem to be neglecting his injury issues. Huge red flag for me. |
To me hes definitely not a "cant miss" guy. Those come few and far between. I dont even think Claiborne is a cant miss guy and I have him in my top-4, same goes for Matt Kalil.
It did come up as a red flag to some and me, however, hes a much better player than his teammate Kevin Zeitler. Konz is a very physical player. He will get hurt a lot based on the way he plays the game.
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germ-x
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7158
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Well this thread turned out to be a bust.
I am beginning to think that this is Denver's thought process.
1. Hope a CB falls. Gilmore and Kikrpatrick being the CB's. It seems like a long shot, but you never know.
2. Trade back and get better value on either a DT or CB. I get the feeling that the NFL isn't as high on the DT's as many fans are and guys like Worthy, Still, and Reyes could be had in the early mid 2nd.
3. Denver can't find a trade partner and instead of reaching takes the most valuable player on their board at #25. |
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paul-mac
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 6382
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| germ-x wrote: | Well this thread turned out to be a bust.
I am beginning to think that this is Denver's thought process.
1. Hope a CB falls. Gilmore and Kikrpatrick being the CB's. It seems like a long shot, but you never know.
2. Trade back and get better value on either a DT or CB. I get the feeling that the NFL isn't as high on the DT's as many fans are and guys like Worthy, Still, and Reyes could be had in the early mid 2nd.
3. Denver can't find a trade partner and instead of reaching takes the most valuable player on their board at #25. |
What do you think about adding a DE? I had Mercilus in my mock and I think it's very possible that one of Mercilus and Perry slides out the first.
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| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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germ-x
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7158
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | germ-x wrote: | Well this thread turned out to be a bust.
I am beginning to think that this is Denver's thought process.
1. Hope a CB falls. Gilmore and Kikrpatrick being the CB's. It seems like a long shot, but you never know.
2. Trade back and get better value on either a DT or CB. I get the feeling that the NFL isn't as high on the DT's as many fans are and guys like Worthy, Still, and Reyes could be had in the early mid 2nd.
3. Denver can't find a trade partner and instead of reaching takes the most valuable player on their board at #25. |
What do you think about adding a DE? I had Mercilus in my mock and I think it's very possible that one of Mercilus and Perry slides out the first. |
It could certainly be possible. I think a DE could occur if Denver can't trade back and takes the best value at #25, or one falls that they have ranked highly. Or if they trade back and a guy like Perry or Mercilus continues falling and is just too good a value to pass up. |
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ihatepotholes
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 670
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | germ-x wrote: | Well this thread turned out to be a bust.
I am beginning to think that this is Denver's thought process.
1. Hope a CB falls. Gilmore and Kikrpatrick being the CB's. It seems like a long shot, but you never know.
2. Trade back and get better value on either a DT or CB. I get the feeling that the NFL isn't as high on the DT's as many fans are and guys like Worthy, Still, and Reyes could be had in the early mid 2nd.
3. Denver can't find a trade partner and instead of reaching takes the most valuable player on their board at #25. |
What do you think about adding a DE? I had Mercilus in my mock and I think it's very possible that one of Mercilus and Perry slides out the first. |
i like that idea, mercilus and doom can be like freeney and mathis. the only concern that i have is that can they play the run game effectively. Mercilus is kinda small to play the LE. i'd happy if he slides and we pick him. |
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DiehardBronxFan
Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 1150
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| germ-x wrote: | Well this thread turned out to be a bust.
I am beginning to think that this is Denver's thought process.
1. Hope a CB falls. Gilmore and Kikrpatrick being the CB's. It seems like a long shot, but you never know.
2. Trade back and get better value on either a DT or CB. I get the feeling that the NFL isn't as high on the DT's as many fans are and guys like Worthy, Still, and Reyes could be had in the early mid 2nd.
3. Denver can't find a trade partner and instead of reaching takes the most valuable player on their board at #25. |
I think you hit it on the nose, and I'm fine with that approach.
In fact, I REALLY want them to trade down. Unless something miraculous happens and some stud falls right into their lap, I just don't see anybody likely to be available at 25 that I'm convinced will be more valuable to the team than somebody they could get in the top 10 picks of the second round. The talent really levels off after about 15 this year, and think the drop off from 15 to early to mid second is very minor. Just an extremely deep draft at some of Denver's areas of needs, so drop down, pick up a couple of extra picks and play the odds. |
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JerseysFinest27
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 5977
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| germ-x wrote: | Well this thread turned out to be a bust.
I am beginning to think that this is Denver's thought process.
1. Hope a CB falls. Gilmore and Kikrpatrick being the CB's. It seems like a long shot, but you never know.
2. Trade back and get better value on either a DT or CB. I get the feeling that the NFL isn't as high on the DT's as many fans are and guys like Worthy, Still, and Reyes could be had in the early mid 2nd.
3. Denver can't find a trade partner and instead of reaching takes the most valuable player on their board at #25. |
My biggest problem with Kirkpatrick is how his skillset matches what John Fox wants for his defense. Im not as high on Kirkpatrick as some are, heres why:
We obviously know John Fox likes to play a lot of man-to-man coverage on the outside, use the single-high safety as a center-fielder, and keep an extra safety around as a '2nd MLBer'. We dont play a lot of Cover-2. One of the biggest reasons Andre Goodman struggled last year in the outside is because hes an off-the-ball type of guy allowing him to jump the quick routes, but not a man-to-man cover corner. Obviously that and the fact hes just half the player he once was. Tracy Porter can offer all the skills John Fox wants and the youth to be a playmaker.
Kirkpatrick thrives on press-zone coverage but struggles when playing strictly man-to-man. He just doesnt have the quick-twitch muscles to react in time for precise route runners. And if he does get beat, he lacks the recover speed. During the FLA game last year, he allowed two WR's to run right past him in man-to-man, 1 for a TD, still 2 big plays. Then when they played zone cover-2 in a down-and-distant situation, he bit on the post route and allowed the FLA RB to run a wheel route right past him for a TD. Not his best game but showed me his skills were suitable for a specific type of defense. He would THRIVE in a cover-2 system like TB, CHI, MIN, CIN, and TEN, where he can play press zone-coverage with coverage behind him.
If Kirkpatrick slips past #21 (CIN), I wouldnt be surprised if he completely slips out of the 1st round. The teams after that are the typical defenses that fit Kirkpatricks skills best. Doesnt mean someone could trade up for him though.
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Russell2Bailey
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 12486
Location: Where I will, I'll roam.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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The Colts thing about playing with leads is stupid. You need to be able to stop the run. Especially in the playoffs. That's why the Colts only won 1 super bowl under Manning and they usually got bull-dozed when they did lose in the playoffs.
What if we're not always playing with a lead? Not something I'd like to bet on.
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jsthomp2007
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 6225
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Russell2Bailey wrote: | The Colts thing about playing with leads is stupid. You need to be able to stop the run. Especially in the playoffs. That's why the Colts only won 1 super bowl under Manning and they usually got bull-dozed when they did lose in the playoffs.
What if we're not always playing with a lead? Not something I'd like to bet on. |
That's a pretty good point. The only difference between the Colts and Patriots was that the Patriots has Seymour and Wilfork and et al stop the run. That is when the Patriots were a dynasty.
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N.J. Bronco
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| germ-x wrote: | Well this thread turned out to be a bust.
I am beginning to think that this is Denver's thought process.
1. Hope a CB falls. Gilmore and Kikrpatrick being the CB's. It seems like a long shot, but you never know.
2. Trade back and get better value on either a DT or CB. I get the feeling that the NFL isn't as high on the DT's as many fans are and guys like Worthy, Still, and Reyes could be had in the early mid 2nd.
3. Denver can't find a trade partner and instead of reaching takes the most valuable player on their board at #25. |
Option 2 is our best hope. DL is deep this draft and usually DT are hit or miss in the first round. Get more picks is our best value. Just don't want an OL or running back in the first. Fox and Elway seem more level headed than Napolean Shannahan and McRuin-The Broncos were. |
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dbronx42
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 3849
Location: Mile High 303
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jsthomp2007 wrote: | | Russell2Bailey wrote: | The Colts thing about playing with leads is stupid. You need to be able to stop the run. Especially in the playoffs. That's why the Colts only won 1 super bowl under Manning and they usually got bull-dozed when they did lose in the playoffs.
What if we're not always playing with a lead? Not something I'd like to bet on. |
That's a pretty good point. The only difference between the Colts and Patriots was that the Patriots has Seymour and Wilfork and et al stop the run. That is when the Patriots were a dynasty. |
Don't forget Ty Warren... Who was actually really good as well in his prime. Which he isn't anymore. And that's why he's a Denver Broncos defensive linemen. Fit's perfectly. 
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Russell2Bailey
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 12486
Location: Where I will, I'll roam.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| dbronx42 wrote: | | jsthomp2007 wrote: | | Russell2Bailey wrote: | The Colts thing about playing with leads is stupid. You need to be able to stop the run. Especially in the playoffs. That's why the Colts only won 1 super bowl under Manning and they usually got bull-dozed when they did lose in the playoffs.
What if we're not always playing with a lead? Not something I'd like to bet on. |
That's a pretty good point. The only difference between the Colts and Patriots was that the Patriots has Seymour and Wilfork and et al stop the run. That is when the Patriots were a dynasty. |
Don't forget Ty Warren... Who was actually really good as well in his prime. Which he isn't anymore. And that's why he's a Denver Broncos defensive tackle. Fit's perfectly. |
FIFY. 
Ayers and Doom don't suck too awfully bad
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Von Miller Stat Tracker- 68 Tackles. 15 TFL. 18.5 sacks. 6 FF. 3 PD. 1 Pick 6. 6 Man Cards. |
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