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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16748
Location: Parkville, MD
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | Also, DeCosta's comments about Mike Adams are quite hilarious.
"We don't like him because of his off the field issues..."
Yet we drafted Jimmy Smith in the 1st round last year  |
One player had a few issues as a sophomore and showed that he had grown up from that and was issue free coming into the draft.
One failed a drug test at the combine.
Very different situations.
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16748
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: |
* JJ seemed like a loyal guy, we couldn't re-structure him or anything? If we couldn't do that, then fine, but if we could, why not? Okay, Upshaw is a better pass rusher but Kindle/Kruger are better pass rushers than Upshaw is so I still don't see any kind of advantage to bringing in Upshaw when JJ was better at setting the edge, prolly better in coverage AND knew our system, was a veteran and had cohesion with the group and when Kruger/Kindle are better pass rushers. |
Johnson wasn't going to play for pennies and we were tight against the cap. As a result, we got a guy who has the skills to be a better player at a significantly lower price and a lot younger. It's what good teams do.
| Quote: | | * About the Mike Adams thing; most NFL players have off the field issues. Heck, even our own offensive line coach is an alcoholic or something like that. Not saying I wanted him or anything because I don't, I'm just saying talent > off the field issues especially with our locker room and environment; unless it's something REALLY bad. |
This kind of thinking is what made the Bengals and Raiders such bad teams for years (and Raiders still to this point).
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16748
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | I don't remember if there was anything reported about the Ravens offering him a contract. The contract he got from the Chargers wasn't really that big (4 years, $19 million total) but given what the Ravens were working with they probably wouldn't have been able to retain the guys they did. I don't think it would have affected the Webb extension though. |
Yep, there's no way we could afford JJ and at almost $5M a year, paying an older player that kind of money unless he's Ray Lewis or Ed Reed isn't worth it, particularly when we have younger guys ready to step up and compete for the job.
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drd23
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 5004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | coordinator0 wrote: | | I don't remember if there was anything reported about the Ravens offering him a contract. The contract he got from the Chargers wasn't really that big (4 years, $19 million total) but given what the Ravens were working with they probably wouldn't have been able to retain the guys they did. I don't think it would have affected the Webb extension though. |
Yep, there's no way we could afford JJ and at almost $5M a year, paying an older player that kind of money unless he's Ray Lewis or Ed Reed isn't worth it, particularly when we have younger guys ready to step up and compete for the job. |
Agreed. Nearly $5m per year for a player the wrong side of 30 who is not elite is not a good team building strategy and I'm glad that we didn't try to re-sign him at that sort of price
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STrid
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 976
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | STrid wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | So at first people made it seem like we got a pass rusher opposite of Suggs in Upshaw; but now it seems like we simply replaced JJ with...another "watered down"version of JJ with SLIGHTLY better pass rushing ability.
Is that correct? |
I would rather say that we got a JJ with 6-8 sacks a season instead of 3-5.
While I'm not a fan of Upshaws rushing it's more from the standpoint that I wan't edge rushers who can get you 12-14 sacks a season not that I think he's bad at it as such. It has more to do with philosophy than anything else. Some teams are happy with having one guy doing most of the rushing while the other OLB compliments him, just like JJ did with Suggs. Other teams are ready to compromise a bit in order to get two guys who can get 12-14 sacks each. |
Honestly, I just don't view it as realistic for many players to reach that 12-14 sack level. Suggs doesn't even consistently land in those numbers. Personally I find nothing wrong with 6-8 sacks a season if multiple guys are landing in that range. It's hard for one guy to have such continued dominance. If Upshaw can set the edge at an elite level and land in that 6-8 sacks region.. that's golden, especially if he's in a rotation where other guys are producing sacks. Maybe if we ran a true 34 defense than maybe our guys would have a chance at reaching those numbers. But under the current system I think 6-8 sacks is good production. |
12-14 might be a high mark, but what I was trying to get at is that I prefer a system, perhaps more similar two a true 3-4, where you expect your OLB's to be the primary pass-rushers. In such a system, granted that you actually get a choice, you'd probably like guys who were premier rushers and would be content even if they we're lacking in coverage or run defence simply because you'd have the DE's compensate for that.
I have no doubt that Upshaw is going to be capeable of getting those 8 or so sacks a season, granted that he's the starter, but I don't view him as a player who'll be able to consistently get double digit sacks. I think he's a very balanced OLB and in that sense he was an excellent pick by the Ravens, as he's probably going to be asked to do what JJ did before him.
I think Upshaw and Kruger will probably combine for around 10-11 sacks or so if they split the playing time at LOLB equally, but thinking that they each could get 8 or so sacks splitting the time is probably a bit optimistic. That would suggest that if either of them got full playing time he could get 12-14 sacks, which I don't think either of them can. With that said they're both going to benefit from the rest it gives them, so averaging a bit above what a single rusher of their caliber could do would not be unrealistic.
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5886
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't look at it so much as Upshaw and Kruger combining for X amount of sacks as I would Upshaw and McPhee. In the over/under scheme the Ravens run now the positions those two guys play are affected the most. Instead of a two-gap DE that generally isn't a big factor in the pass-rush you have a one-gap DE that can get to the QB (and McPhee can do that). Having a player like Upshaw makes up for the lack of a two-gap DE in the 3-4 scheme while still being able to rush the passer. Like I've said before my preference is more of a traditional 3-4 scheme but the team does have players that fits what they're trying to do on defense very well. With McPhee and Upshaw playing/starting instead of Redding and Johnson I think we will see a very nice boost in the pass-rush this season. |
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Sessy
Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | I wouldn't look at it so much as Upshaw and Kruger combining for X amount of sacks as I would Upshaw and McPhee. In the over/under scheme the Ravens run now the positions those two guys play are affected the most. Instead of a two-gap DE that generally isn't a big factor in the pass-rush you have a one-gap DE that can get to the QB (and McPhee can do that). Having a player like Upshaw makes up for the lack of a two-gap DE in the 3-4 scheme while still being able to rush the passer. Like I've said before my preference is more of a traditional 3-4 scheme but the team does have players that fits what they're trying to do on defense very well. With McPhee and Upshaw playing/starting instead of Redding and Johnson I think we will see a very nice boost in the pass-rush this season. |
Add to this that Upshaw is projected to bring the same level of play against the run as JJ, and that McPhee I'm sure is looking to improve on his rookie year while playing both the run and the pass, AND add in there that Ngata should (hopefully) be healthy the full year, AND add in there that Jimmy Smith is looking to improve/stay healthy....
Yeah, our D is gonna be nasty again this year. |
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10033
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Sessy wrote: | | coordinator0 wrote: | | I wouldn't look at it so much as Upshaw and Kruger combining for X amount of sacks as I would Upshaw and McPhee. In the over/under scheme the Ravens run now the positions those two guys play are affected the most. Instead of a two-gap DE that generally isn't a big factor in the pass-rush you have a one-gap DE that can get to the QB (and McPhee can do that). Having a player like Upshaw makes up for the lack of a two-gap DE in the 3-4 scheme while still being able to rush the passer. Like I've said before my preference is more of a traditional 3-4 scheme but the team does have players that fits what they're trying to do on defense very well. With McPhee and Upshaw playing/starting instead of Redding and Johnson I think we will see a very nice boost in the pass-rush this season. |
Add to this that Upshaw is projected to bring the same level of play against the run as JJ, and that McPhee I'm sure is looking to improve on his rookie year while playing both the run and the pass, AND add in there that Ngata should (hopefully) be healthy the full year, AND add in there that Jimmy Smith is looking to improve/stay healthy....
Yeah, our D is gonna be nasty again this year. |
I agree and nasty might even be an understatement. The defense was pretty nasty last year at points... This upcoming defense... Honestly, I think (if Peas can be capable) that this defense just might prove to compete for our best defense ever. I think the 2006 defense will never be recognized by others for just how phenomenal the defense was, but even with that this current defense has all that you look for to compete with that one and the 00 one.
This could feature the best secondary group that we will ever see in Ravens history. Think about it. Lardarius Webb displayed All Pro caliber talent at the cornerback slot last year... He stays healthy and he's a top 5 corner IMO. Jimmy Smith is only going to get bettet. He really stepped his gamr up come playoff time, i expect that level to be his floor next season, I think he proves to play on a top 10 corner level. Those type of corner options would be scary to matchup with. Bernard Pollard is a physical head hunter looking to punish people. He brings the intimidation factor to our secondary. And then there is Ed Reed still back there as an elite safety against the deep ball- still a ball hawk. And if Smith/Webb play at the levels I expect and it will mean teams will be forced to target Pollard and Reed more... Meaning more opportunities for interceptions and perhaps touchdowns.
The defensive line we have can also compete with any we've ever fielded. Prime Ngata is MUCH better and more dominant than 06' Rookie Ngata. Cody's impact is comparable to Gregg's stoutness
... And while we have no Teevor Pryce type Pernell McPhee and Arthur Jones in rotation could give out DL just enough to be a better unit than the 06' version- maybe. 06 definitely has the LBer edge, but the intense competition for the starting SAM backer could produce the results to close the gap.
It's still early but from a talent standpoint this defense has the chance to be something special IMO.
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blueridge
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 58
Location: charlottesville,va
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | I'm not worried about Still to the Bengals. He made a lot of splash plays but it looked like a lot of swim moves and I saw him going backwards a lot. And he was only solid before 2011. It's pretty sad if a player with his talent isn't dominating by the time he is a redshirt senior. |
The fact you made a post on the subject shows me it did bother you. Still came off two years lost to injury, stayed in school, and became Big 10 DPOY and LOY, team captain, and an All-American. Its pretty sad you would denigrate such an accomplished player because you wanted,but didn't get,him. |
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 20690
Location: 321
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| blueridge wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | I'm not worried about Still to the Bengals. He made a lot of splash plays but it looked like a lot of swim moves and I saw him going backwards a lot. And he was only solid before 2011. It's pretty sad if a player with his talent isn't dominating by the time he is a redshirt senior. |
The fact you made a post on the subject shows me it did bother you. Still came off two years lost to injury, stayed in school, and became Big 10 DPOY and LOY, team captain, and an All-American. Its pretty sad you would denigrate such an accomplished player because you wanted,but didn't get,him. |
| blueridge wrote: | | Upshaw-undersized,slow-footed DE. Pierce-traded up and took the concussion-rattled back-up RB in the 3rd round. |
Gotta love irony.
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blueridge
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 58
Location: charlottesville,va
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | Quote: | Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora
Baltimore's QB, Joe Flacco, also from Delaware. Gradkowski had 3rd round grades from smart teams. |
"From smart teams." LOL |
What a tool LaCanfora is. "Smart teams"? Can't he just admit, or at least stand by in silence, when the Ravens make a grotesque Seahawks-like reach? |
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blueridge
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 58
Location: charlottesville,va
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | coordinator0 wrote: | | Quote: | Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora
Baltimore's QB, Joe Flacco, also from Delaware. Gradkowski had 3rd round grades from smart teams. |
"From smart teams." LOL |
Pretty blunt statement. But it's no secret that the Patriots, Packers, Ravens, Steelers, Giants, and maybe the Eagles are better at this than everyone else by leaps and bounds. |
Oh yeah? The Ravens? They just took a 7th round, undersized, small school OL guy in the top 100! That's stupid. Like the Pats taking Tavon Wilson in the 2d. Or the Eagles trading up to take Brandon Graham in the first half of the 1rst round. Or the Steelers blowing 2nd round picks on Limas Sweed and Jason Worilds. Stupid is as stupid does. |
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 20690
Location: 321
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| blueridge wrote: |
Oh yeah? The Ravens? They just took a 7th round, undersized, small school OL guy in the top 100! |
On what planet is 6'3" 300 undersized for a center? And other than that, what did you see in all the Delaware games you watched that you didn't like about him? Or from the South Carolina State and Cal-Poly games you watched for our other picks?
I know you don't respond to anything posted within the last two months. But maybe I'll get an answer in September.
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blueridge
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 58
Location: charlottesville,va
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sessy wrote: | Asa Jackson.
Thoughts? |
He looked great on tape against Pepperdine and Cal St Davis. Meh. |
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blueridge
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 58
Location: charlottesville,va
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | Well we've been going BPA this entire draft... usually I think we go BNA, but this has been BPA very much. So I'm thinking we go DL here. There's a lot of talent left on the board at DL... and I'm not sure if I can say that Nelson Rosario is a strict BPA.
WOW we made this pick fast and furious... another commercial. |
Actually, we didn't take the BPA at any point in the draft. |
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