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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 10672
Location: Spokane, WA
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | So at first people made it seem like we got a pass rusher opposite of Suggs in Upshaw; but now it seems like we simply replaced JJ with...another "watered down"version of JJ with SLIGHTLY better pass rushing ability.
Is that correct? |
Where is anyone saying that Upshaw is a watered down version?
People are saying he gives us a similar player in the run game and setting the edge and a better player in rushing the passer. |
Good edge setter against the run, not great in coverage and mediocre pass rushing skills = JJ in a nut shell.
The fact that he's a rookie means he's just a "poor man's" or watered down version of JJ. JJ did everything for us and did them pretty well, all except pass rushing.
As I've progressed through this, I heard that Upshaw was a pass rusher (obviously he's not "that" kind of pass rusher now that I've read more from you guys), now I hear that he's a edge-setter who's going to come out on pass rushing situations?!
Which is it?! IS HE A PASS RUSHER OR NOT?!
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5886
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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There were some interesting tidbits in a live chat BaltimoreRavens.com had with Eric DeCosta today. Here are a few of them related to the draft:
| Quote: | Comment From Greg A
Fantastic draft Mr. Decosta. What about Bernard Pierce made you trade up 6 spots to get him? |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
He was clearly the highest-rated player on our board. In the third round your board tends to get cleaned out quickly and there's a big difference b/w players still available. That's why this year, like last year we made the decision to get Bernard. He's a big, fast runner and we think he compliments Ray Rice very well. |
| Quote: | Comment From James
Had you had a tradeable 4th round pick, do you think you would have moved up to get Hightower? |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
No, that was no one of our various scenarios. We had about seven players that we really liked in the first round, and he was not one of the players that we would have traded up to get. |
| Quote: | Comment From GTisMe
Why...oh why....did you pass on Reuben Randle???? I thought you drafted not for need but best player available? |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
We liked Randle. But quite honestly we had some other receivers that we favored more. We're happy with our young receivers and we think they'll make a big jump this year. |
| Quote: | Comment From fred
any particular reason why the Ravens did not move up to grab a pure tackle like Mike Adams from Ohio State? |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
Mike Adams specifically was not a player of great interest to the Ravens because of off-field concerns. We always consider moving up based on scout opinions and coaching evaluations. We didn't see any tackles in this draft other than Kalil that we would have considered moving up to take in the first round |
| Quote: | Comment From Ben Miller
I loved the great work you did in the draft! Who was your favorite pick? |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
I think the favorite pick was probably Gradkowski. He was a sleeper player for us who was a consensus favorite amongst the scouts and coaches. I think he's smart and tough guy, physical, very good athlete. |
| Quote: | Comment From Greg C
Three years from now who will we look back and say he was the steal of the Ravens' 2012 draft class? |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
I think Upshaw. He's a guy that should pay dividends for us as a pass rusher and run defender. He comes from a top program and should fit in very quickly. |
| Quote: | Comment From @TheRaven52
did you think about trading up for decastro? or was you hoping for him to slip.. |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
We liked DeCastro. But again, he was not a player that we were prepared to trade up for. |
| Quote: | Comment From Greg C
Which of the undrafted FAs has the chance to be the next Bart Scott, Priest Holmes, etc.? |
| Quote: | Eric DeCosta:
We haven't officially signed and UFAs so I can't specifically talk about them. But I will say we agreed to terms with a nose tackle from the MAC that we're very excited about. |
He's talking about Ishmaa'ily Kitchen from Kent State. |
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RavensTillIDie
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 11023
Location: ----------------- Props to Jamison. on the dope signature!!!!!!!!!!
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | Ishmaa'ily Kitchen from Kent State. |
Greatest name ever....or greatest name EVER?! 
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 | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | If this site represents "average" then yes. There are times where I forgo saying things because I'm afraid some of you will make me dumber. |
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Did you guys see that Rob Rang tweeted that Bruve Irvin would have gone to the Ravens, Jets or 49ers in the first round if the Seahawks wouldn't have taken him? Maybe I'm not so crazy after all. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16764
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | So at first people made it seem like we got a pass rusher opposite of Suggs in Upshaw; but now it seems like we simply replaced JJ with...another "watered down"version of JJ with SLIGHTLY better pass rushing ability.
Is that correct? |
Where is anyone saying that Upshaw is a watered down version?
People are saying he gives us a similar player in the run game and setting the edge and a better player in rushing the passer. |
Good edge setter against the run, not great in coverage and mediocre pass rushing skills = JJ in a nut shell.
The fact that he's a rookie means he's just a "poor man's" or watered down version of JJ. JJ did everything for us and did them pretty well, all except pass rushing.
As I've progressed through this, I heard that Upshaw was a pass rusher (obviously he's not "that" kind of pass rusher now that I've read more from you guys), now I hear that he's a edge-setter who's going to come out on pass rushing situations?!
Which is it?! IS HE A PASS RUSHER OR NOT?! |
First of all, I find it hilarious how you bash our draft and yet know next to nothing about our biggest pick. But moving on from that...
Upshaw is a guy in a JJ type mold who will provide us with more of a pass rush than JJ provided. The fact that he is a rookie does not mean he's a "water down" version of anything.
The "might take him out on 3rd downs" was another poster commenting that if Upshaw is starting and it's a 3rd and long situation, Paul Kruger or Sergio Kindle MIGHT be a better option from the standpoint of "get to the QB", much like Kruger was this year for us. It's just a thought somebody had in that if we need to get to the QB, and we have another player who is better in that aspect, why would we not put him in? It does not take away from Upshaw's abilities as a player, pass rusher or whatever else. We know Upshaw isn't an elite pass rusher. That's not his role as the SAM in our system. But he has all of the skills that can provide us with a player who will be JJ-esque at setting the edge but improve in the pass rush department.
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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Location: 321
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Upshaw definitely has better than average pass rush skills. He doesn't have the size or explosiveness of a top NFL pass rusher. But he uses his hands better than any pass rusher in this draft.
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 10672
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | So at first people made it seem like we got a pass rusher opposite of Suggs in Upshaw; but now it seems like we simply replaced JJ with...another "watered down"version of JJ with SLIGHTLY better pass rushing ability.
Is that correct? |
Where is anyone saying that Upshaw is a watered down version?
People are saying he gives us a similar player in the run game and setting the edge and a better player in rushing the passer. |
Good edge setter against the run, not great in coverage and mediocre pass rushing skills = JJ in a nut shell.
The fact that he's a rookie means he's just a "poor man's" or watered down version of JJ. JJ did everything for us and did them pretty well, all except pass rushing.
As I've progressed through this, I heard that Upshaw was a pass rusher (obviously he's not "that" kind of pass rusher now that I've read more from you guys), now I hear that he's a edge-setter who's going to come out on pass rushing situations?!
Which is it?! IS HE A PASS RUSHER OR NOT?! |
First of all, I find it hilarious how you bash our draft and yet know next to nothing about our biggest pick. But moving on from that...
Upshaw is a guy in a JJ type mold who will provide us with more of a pass rush than JJ provided. The fact that he is a rookie does not mean he's a "water down" version of anything.
The "might take him out on 3rd downs" was another poster commenting that if Upshaw is starting and it's a 3rd and long situation, Paul Kruger or Sergio Kindle MIGHT be a better option from the standpoint of "get to the QB", much like Kruger was this year for us. It's just a thought somebody had in that if we need to get to the QB, and we have another player who is better in that aspect, why would we not put him in? It does not take away from Upshaw's abilities as a player, pass rusher or whatever else. We know Upshaw isn't an elite pass rusher. That's not his role as the SAM in our system. But he has all of the skills that can provide us with a player who will be JJ-esque at setting the edge but improve in the pass rush department. |
Which is why I'm trying to figure out what the hell you guys are classifying him as! I thought he was a pass rusher, then someone said he's not, and now you're saying he is?! I don't get it. I was under the impression going in to the draft that Upshaw WAS a pass rusher, but you're right, I don't know EVERYTHING about EVERY player in the draft like most of you guys did going in to it.
So I propose a question:
Why did we release JJ and spend a 2nd round pick on...another JJ? In my experience I would take a veteran type player over a rookie who brings almost the exact same skill set.
_________________
| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 10672
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Also, DeCosta's comments about Mike Adams are quite hilarious.
"We don't like him because of his off the field issues..."
Yet we drafted Jimmy Smith in the 1st round last year 
_________________
| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5886
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | Which is why I'm trying to figure out what the hell you guys are classifying him as! I thought he was a pass rusher, then someone said he's not, and now you're saying he is?! I don't get it. I was under the impression going in to the draft that Upshaw WAS a pass rusher, but you're right, I don't know EVERYTHING about EVERY player in the draft like most of you guys did going in to it.
So I propose a question:
Why did we release JJ and spend a 2nd round pick on...another JJ? In my experience I would take a veteran type player over a rookie who brings almost the exact same skill set. |
Because the Ravens were already working with little cap room after the franchise tag was applied to Rice and keeping Johnson around would have taken up most of what was left. Upshaw has the same skills as Johnson but he's better in one of the most important areas - rushing the passer. Would you have been making the same type of argument if the Ravens drafted a guard to replace Grubbs?
| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | Also, DeCosta's comments about Mike Adams are quite hilarious.
"We don't like him because of his off the field issues..."
Yet we drafted Jimmy Smith in the 1st round last year |
The off-field issues Smith had were a couple of years in the past while Adams is continuing to have problems. It's not the same situation. |
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 10672
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | Which is why I'm trying to figure out what the hell you guys are classifying him as! I thought he was a pass rusher, then someone said he's not, and now you're saying he is?! I don't get it. I was under the impression going in to the draft that Upshaw WAS a pass rusher, but you're right, I don't know EVERYTHING about EVERY player in the draft like most of you guys did going in to it.
So I propose a question:
Why did we release JJ and spend a 2nd round pick on...another JJ? In my experience I would take a veteran type player over a rookie who brings almost the exact same skill set. |
Because the Ravens were already working with little cap room after the franchise tag was applied to Rice and keeping Johnson around would have taken up most of what was left. Upshaw has the same skills as Johnson but he's better in one of the most important areas - rushing the passer. Would you have been making the same type of argument if the Ravens drafted a guard to replace Grubbs? |
* It was obvious Grubbs was going to leave; he wanted the pay day. There wasn't really anything we could do to stop him.
* JJ seemed like a loyal guy, we couldn't re-structure him or anything? If we couldn't do that, then fine, but if we could, why not? Okay, Upshaw is a better pass rusher but Kindle/Kruger are better pass rushers than Upshaw is so I still don't see any kind of advantage to bringing in Upshaw when JJ was better at setting the edge, prolly better in coverage AND knew our system, was a veteran and had cohesion with the group and when Kruger/Kindle are better pass rushers.
* About the Mike Adams thing; most NFL players have off the field issues. Heck, even our own offensive line coach is an alcoholic or something like that. Not saying I wanted him or anything because I don't, I'm just saying talent > off the field issues especially with our locker room and environment; unless it's something REALLY bad.
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5886
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnson was an unrestricted free agent, the Ravens didn't cut him. |
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 10672
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | Johnson was an unrestricted free agent, the Ravens didn't cut him. |
I keep forgetting he was a FA 
So did we even offer him? Or did SD just make an outrageous offer?
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5886
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't remember if there was anything reported about the Ravens offering him a contract. The contract he got from the Chargers wasn't really that big (4 years, $19 million total) but given what the Ravens were working with they probably wouldn't have been able to retain the guys they did. I don't think it would have affected the Webb extension though. |
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FlaccoForever
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | Also, DeCosta's comments about Mike Adams are quite hilarious.
"We don't like him because of his off the field issues..."
Yet we drafted Jimmy Smith in the 1st round last year |
It's pretty bad when you're high at the combine, Adams was, Smith wasn't nuff. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16764
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | Which is why I'm trying to figure out what the hell you guys are classifying him as! I thought he was a pass rusher, then someone said he's not, and now you're saying he is?! I don't get it. I was under the impression going in to the draft that Upshaw WAS a pass rusher, but you're right, I don't know EVERYTHING about EVERY player in the draft like most of you guys did going in to it.
So I propose a question:
Why did we release JJ and spend a 2nd round pick on...another JJ? In my experience I would take a veteran type player over a rookie who brings almost the exact same skill set. |
That's my point. You started off by bashing the draft when in reality you know very little about the players selected. As in, you're basically confirming that you just like to complain for the sake of complaining 
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Why not Michael Jordan?
XBL GT: kanxalanx |
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