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wgbeethree 
Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2431 Location: Denver, CO via Racine, Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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The defensive lineman edition went over ok so this week let's try the same thing with the LBs. A place for us to give our thoughts on the players, the position as a whole, where they/it stand now, where you see them going in the future etc. etc.
Desmond Bishop- Solid player. Much better against the run than in coverage but improving in that area (hard not to as bad as he was early in his career).
Heavy hitter and good blitzer.
Robert Francios- Aggressive and quick but that sometimes comes back to bite him in over pursuit. Not great in coverage but still really learning the ropes.
AJ Hawk- Everybody's favorite new whipping boy. Good in the run game. Attacks and fills gaps aggressively. Hustles. Decent in coverage. Doesn't blitz well and can be quite inconsistent. Seems to be held in much higher regard by coaches and teammates than fans.
Brad Jones- Athletic and versatile. Played well when he was on the field but durability is an issue. Still somewhat raw but finds a way to get the job done. Needs to step up this year and stay healthy to warrant a roster spot.
Jamari Lattimore- Quick and explosive but raw and undersized. Good teams player and tackler. Has upside but may have a hard time finding a spot on the roster.
Terrell Manning- Good first step and hips so he should be able to rush the passer and cover TEs. Inconsistent tackler and not overly physical but should be a solid teams guy day one. He'll likely be an ILB for us to start but could possibly bulk up and play some OLB as well IMO.
Clay Matthews- He's like pretty good and stuff. Despite his sack numbers not being very good last year I think he had his best year all around and is really coming into his own as a player who can do anything you ask him to. Looking for a big year with his move back to the right side and more help around him.
Dezman Moses- Know very little about him. Likely just a camp body. Athletic but struggles with pad level and lacks natural instincts.
Nick Perry- Tons of potential. Big, strong, and fast. Power pig body but speed rusher mentality. Do we get the best of both worlds or a guy who plays away from his strengths? Can he cover when asked? See him being used very similarly to how AK74 was used in his short time in the 34 until those questions are answered.
DJ Smith- First and most importantly.....does NOT play the same position as Hawk. Consistent tackler and almost always around the ball. Decent in coverage. Does look completely lost from time to time and still has a lot to learn. Small and slow so he's very unlikely to ever be great but finds a way to make it work for the most part.
Vic So'Oto- Athletic but very raw. Always seems to make a splash play whenever he sees the field. Really hope the light comes on quickly for this kid as he just seems to have that "it" quality about him. Probably a couple years away still but I hope we can find a way to keep him around until then.
Erik Walden- SUCKS. Bad at everything. From blitzing to holding the point to not being a D bag. Terrible at all of them. I'd rather make passionate love to an active hornets' nest than see him play another snap.
Frank Zombo- Smart, tough, hustle player. Finds a way to get the job done when healthy. Doesn't do anything exceptionally well but does everything good enough.
My prediction on who makes the roster...
Matthews
Bishop
Hawk
Perry
Smith
Manning
Zombo
Jones
So'Oto
What the future holds at OLB is really up in the air. Matthews will be a stud. Perry could be. Maybe So'oto as well. ILB has talent but still has a couple question marks. Seems like Hawk is the only "thumper" in the bunch which concerns me.
Let me hear what you guys think about the Linebackers. _________________
Adopt-A-Packer Randall Cobb | TytybearsFan21 wrote: | | Justo knows nothing about sportz |
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pops408
Joined: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 177 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I like the hornets nest thing. Sounds appealing. _________________ Die-hard fan of the GREEN BAY PACKERS, SAN JOSE SHARKS, HOUSTON ROCKETS & the OAKLAND A'S |
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ajhawk5047
Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 876
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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i have really high hopes for terrell manning. i watched video on him and it seems like he's a smart player. he's quick and can cover. i'd like to see him bulk up a bit and his tackling can definitely use some coaching, but i think in the future he will be a solid starter for us, probably replacing hawk. i don't think he'll see the field much this year other than on special teams, but possibly as early as next year. who knows? we haven't seen how does at the nfl level yet. what do you guys think of him? _________________ Go Packers! |
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DavidatMIZZOU
Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 6041 Location: The ZOU
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Aside from Matthews, the group is a lot of question marks. Some of them are unknowns and others are pretty average. On their best day these guys have shown to be very good, but on their bad days you get last season. Even with the new additions, this is probably tied with RB for weakest position on the team, in my estimation. I'll actually be content if we can just get competence from the 3 LBs not named Clay Matthews. _________________ GO PACK GO!
I won an award on the Packers forum, most grumpiest or something. |
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Scuba St3ve
Joined: 19 Mar 2012 Posts: 177 Location: Ashwaubenon
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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still dont understand why everyone is so adamant on the fact that dj smith doesnt play the same position as hawk.
do you bring up the fact that woodson doesnt play safety when people say he could potentially play safety?
clay has switched and gone back and forth between left and right
manning played outside linebacker and is now starting to play inside linebacker and no one says manning doesnt play hawks position
dumb argument to me to think that simply because smith is bishops back up that he is automatically incapable of taking hawks spot |
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MM
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Posts: 220
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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| wgbeethree wrote: |
AJ Hawk- Everybody's favorite new whipping boy. Good in the run game. Attacks and fills gaps aggressively. Hustles. Decent in coverage. Doesn't blitz well and can be quite inconsistent. Seems to be held in much higher regard by coaches and teammates than fans.
ILB has talent but still has a couple question marks. Seems like Hawk is the only "thumper" in the bunch which concerns me.
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Hawk deserves every bit of scrutiny he gets from fans, and a lot more, IMO. He should not be starting on this team and is one of the weak links of the defense. He is TT's biggest mistake (including Harrell), and for whatever reason TT doubled down giving him an awful contract. I'm hoping the coaches give all of the other guys a fair shot at his position. I'm of the opinion that this defense would be a hell of a lot faster and more aggressive if DJ Smith played along side Bishop (who to me, is still underrated by Packer fans and the NFL as a whole). Re-upping on Hawk at that inflated price, and letting Barnett walk for cheaper was a mistake, but that has passed.
I am also interested in seeing whether Brad Jones and Lattimore can make the switch. Both are intriguing with their size, power, quickness. Terrell Manning may make a serious run at it too, but is likely a year away from competing for it.
Hawk will probably make this team this year because it will cost more to cut him than to keep him, but I will bet that he won't be on the roster come 2013. |
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spilltray
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 8651 Location: Green Bay, WI
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Scuba St3ve wrote: | still dont understand why everyone is so adamant on the fact that dj smith doesnt play the same position as hawk.
do you bring up the fact that woodson doesnt play safety when people say he could potentially play safety?
clay has switched and gone back and forth between left and right
manning played outside linebacker and is now starting to play inside linebacker and no one says manning doesnt play hawks position
dumb argument to me to think that simply because smith is bishops back up that he is automatically incapable of taking hawks spot |
Hawk is the only "thumper" on the roster. He eats alot of the trash so Bishop has a free run at the ball carrier. It's the defensive equivalent to being the FB. Sure Kuhn can play a little of either FB or HB but would you think Saine could handle Kuhn's FB responsibilities?
DJ Smith is a pretty small LB. He really is ill suited to play Hawk's position in run D. Last year when Smith played, it was in Bishop's spot. Francois played Hawk's position. I really don't think you can expect Smith to handle Hawk's role.
Also, I fully expect Hawk to finish out this contract with Green Bay. Fans keep looking for ways to replace him or get rid of him, but he is a very solid LB who had a down year in a season when the DL was junk top to bottom. I'd expect him to play more like he did in 2010 than 2011. Also remember he is the defensive play caller. Him and Charles Woodson were the 2 defensive captains last year. I would wager money that the FO staff and coaches are perfectly fine with what they get from AJ Hawk on the field on his own merits AND the contract he has. He's not going anywhere unless he just completely falls apart and continues to regress, which quite frankly, you could have had Patrick Willis at LB last year and he would have looked mediocre with the way the DL played. With all of the resources dedicated to fixing that, Hawk will be just fine. _________________
| Wilfred wrote: | | Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back. |
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wgbeethree 
Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2431 Location: Denver, CO via Racine, Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Scuba St3ve wrote: | | still dont understand why everyone is so adamant on the fact that dj smith doesnt play the same position as hawk. |
Because he doesn't AND his skill set is a poor fit for that position.
| Scuba St3ve wrote: | | do you bring up the fact that woodson doesnt play safety when people say he could potentially play safety? |
No, but I do mention that I think moving Woodson to safety would put him in a position where it minimizes what he does well and put him in a situation where his weaknesses would be magnified.
| Scuba St3ve wrote: | | clay has switched and gone back and forth between left and right |
Clay has the skill set to play and excel at both.
| Scuba St3ve wrote: | | manning played outside linebacker and is now starting to play inside linebacker and no one says manning doesnt play hawks position |
I actually did imply just that and he doesn't. I'd have been even more adamant about it if I heard dozens of people constantly saying it. Terrell Manning's skill set (as of right now) is not a good fit for Hawk's position.
| Scuba St3ve wrote: | | dumb argument to me to think that simply because smith is bishops back up that he is automatically incapable of taking hawks spot |
That is a dumb argument and that is why no one should use it. The argument isn't or shouldn't be that it's because he is Bishop's backup he is incapable of taking Hawk's spot. The argument is that he is a very poor fit for Hawk's position and that's why he plays the one he does.
Replace Smith with Saine, and Hawk with Kuhn for a much clearer example of a similar thing. If I suggested Saine would make a good fullback almost everyone would point out that he both A) plays a totally different position and B) his skill set doesn't fit well at fullback. At runningback and fullback it's easy to see and understand that they are different positions with different skill sets needed to succeed which apparently and unfortunately isn't the case for most people and the ILB positions.. _________________
Adopt-A-Packer Randall Cobb | TytybearsFan21 wrote: | | Justo knows nothing about sportz |
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ajhawk5047
Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 876
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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| MM wrote: | | wgbeethree wrote: |
AJ Hawk- Everybody's favorite new whipping boy. Good in the run game. Attacks and fills gaps aggressively. Hustles. Decent in coverage. Doesn't blitz well and can be quite inconsistent. Seems to be held in much higher regard by coaches and teammates than fans.
ILB has talent but still has a couple question marks. Seems like Hawk is the only "thumper" in the bunch which concerns me.
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Hawk deserves every bit of scrutiny he gets from fans, and a lot more, IMO. He should not be starting on this team and is one of the weak links of the defense. He is TT's biggest mistake (including Harrell), and for whatever reason TT doubled down giving him an awful contract. I'm hoping the coaches give all of the other guys a fair shot at his position. I'm of the opinion that this defense would be a hell of a lot faster and more aggressive if DJ Smith played along side Bishop (who to me, is still underrated by Packer fans and the NFL as a whole). Re-upping on Hawk at that inflated price, and letting Barnett walk for cheaper was a mistake, but that has passed.
I am also interested in seeing whether Brad Jones and Lattimore can make the switch. Both are intriguing with their size, power, quickness. Terrell Manning may make a serious run at it too, but is likely a year away from competing for it.
Hawk will probably make this team this year because it will cost more to cut him than to keep him, but I will bet that he won't be on the roster come 2013. |
you guys must be forgetting how importan hawk was to the super bowl run. he was extremely consistent throughout the entire playoffs. i'm saying this, and i am by no means a huge hawk supporter. he definitely had a bad year last year, and i would like the see someone put some pressure on him, but i don't fault TT for giving him that contract. everyone saying "let's replace hawk with d.j. smith" don't understand that it isn't that simple. woodson has been talked about as a potential safety because he's played snaps there and it is generally accepted that many CB's move to safety in their later years. manning played OLB in college and is now playing ILB. have you seen him play at all? maybe it won't work. he does seem better suited to play that position in our defense though, and i would love it if it worked out. is d.j. smith incapable of playing hawks position? i have no idea, but it isn't as simple as some people would think. _________________ Go Packers! |
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Packer70
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 2610 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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| wgbeethree wrote: |
Erik Walden- SUCKS. Bad at everything. From blitzing to holding the point to not being a D bag. Terrible at all of them. I'd rather make passionate love to an active hornets' nest than see him play another snap.
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I lost it at this
I enjoy reading these so definitely keep it up. I'm excited to see how well our linebackers perform this year as I'm expecting a much better season with the group we have now. |
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spilltray
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 8651 Location: Green Bay, WI
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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| ajhawk5047 wrote: | | manning played OLB in college and is now playing ILB. |
One thing I wanted to clear up about this... Sure he was an OLB, but wasn't that in a 4-3? All 3 LB positions in a 4-3 have more in common with an ILB in a 3-4 than an OLB. Hawk played OLB in the old 4-3. Very few 4-3 LBs of any variety play OLB. That position is for converted 4-3 DEs.
Now I'm fairly certain Manning played in a 4-3 in college but not 100%. _________________
| Wilfred wrote: | | Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back. |
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MM
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Posts: 220
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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the biggest misconception I've seen on this forum is that people seem to believe, as can be seen in this thread, that AJ Hawk has this unique ability to play the thumper well, and that no one else can. Look, if you're tough and willing, you can play the position. The size differences are overstated too. AJ Hawk is 6-1 247, DJ Smith is 5-11 240. Smith seems to be, by all accounts, tough, willing, smart, fast, and extremely instinctive. If I'm the coaches, I experiment with Smith and Bishop at either of the ILB positions and see what works best. I think both can play either, both are far more instictive than Hawk, both seem (we already know Bishop is) more than willing, and both are tough.
Hawk lacks instincts, toughness, speed, strength, explosiveness, aggressiveness. Basically everything except his smarts are below-average for an NFL starter IMO.
He will undoubtedly have heat on him this camp.
Last edited by MM on Mon May 28, 2012 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CallMeBarrett
Joined: 04 Jan 2011 Posts: 484 Location: Gainesville, Florida
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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Hawk suffers from inconsistency, which player didn't last year?
Oh, that's right, none of them.
Last edited by CallMeBarrett on Mon May 28, 2012 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MM
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Posts: 220
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts On The Roster: Linebacker Edition |
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| spilltray wrote: | | ajhawk5047 wrote: | | manning played OLB in college and is now playing ILB. |
One thing I wanted to clear up about this... Sure he was an OLB, but wasn't that in a 4-3? All 3 LB positions in a 4-3 have more in common with an ILB in a 3-4 than an OLB. Hawk played OLB in the old 4-3. Very few 4-3 LBs of any variety play OLB. That position is for converted 4-3 DEs.
Now I'm fairly certain Manning played in a 4-3 in college but not 100%. |
Yeah, Manning played outside in the 40 front in college. He's definitely drafted to play inside in GB's D.
Look, I was a big Hawk guy when he came out in 06. I was terribly mistaken though, and it is time to move on, in my opinion. |
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MNPackfan32
Joined: 22 Sep 2010 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| To me the LBer positions key word is hope. We hope Perry is the answer across from Clay. We hope AJ gets back to 2010 form we hope Brad Jones can stay healthy and be a good role player. |
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