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paul-mac 
Joined: 12 Jul 2009 Posts: 6367 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: Brock Osweiler, QB, Denver Broncos(Film study) |
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Wanted to do a bit of throw by throw analysis, starting with the game against USC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqYAUD97lRQ
0.06 - That play reminded me of a certain former Broncos QB Not even just the fact he scrambled but running style and everything.
0.11 - There's something very Ben Roethlisberger about this kid.
0.20 - Dangerous throw there. Throwing a screen to the RB in your own end zone is incredibly poor decision making because two things can happen. If the defense closes in too fast it's a safety, and if a backwards pass is incomplete and the D recovers then it's 6.
0.26 - Not much to see here. A pee wee QB could complete that pass. The play action fake wasn't very convincing.
0.34 - Again throwing a very simple play which doesn't appear to involve making a read. And again the playaction fake was quite poor.
0.42 - That was on the snapper I think. I'll give Brock the benefit of the doubt.
0.55 - Did well to get to the hot read under pressure. The guy was wide open, but it's the first pass he's completed over the top of the OL(who by the way really sold Brock out on that play) of the game so far.
1.05 - The left tackle got owned and Brock did a great job getting the ball off to his receiver. Between the scrambles and the last two throws, I'm loving the way he deals with pressure.
1.20 - Better selling of the fake this time. Simple pass.
1.27 - His fakes are definitely getting better and he clearly isn't scared to take off with the rock.
1.33 - That was more of an NFL throw this time. TD.
1.57 - OL really sold him out. No QB would get a pass off under that much pressure.
2.03 - That was dangerously low. Could have easily been a pick 6.
2.11 - Same again. His trajectory on screen passes is an absolute bombscare.
2.27 - This time it was too low even for the RB to catch. I hope he sorts this one out in practice with Hillman.
2.31 - Much better delivery of the screen this time. Maybe that's to do with the lack of pressure though.
2.37 - Yet another wee dump off out left to the RB. Goes for a TD. Simple throw and no pressure but he got what he needed to do done and let the weapon take it for 6.
2.49 - Not a lot to see here. Sells the fake pretty well and dumps it off the the receiver for a decent gain.
2.57 - Nice pocket movement again. I'll make the comparison to Roethlisberger again, because I don't want to mention you know who.
3.12 - That was some odd footwork on that throw. Fits it well into the gap though so nice throw.
3.26 - Bad decision there. Could have dumped it off right to the RB. Tough to make the split second decision under that kind of pressure.
3.31 - That's exactly how interceptions happen. Cmon kid you were relatively unflushed there.
3.38 - Little to see here again. Decent fake, dumpoff to the RB who turns it into a nice gain(That RB is a good player by the way)
3.49 - Carbon copy of the previous pass.
3.57 - Love the way he stands in the pocket. Great throw. Second or third time he's made a good NFL throw so far. The receiver dropped it due to interference from the DB and managed to draw the flag, good play by Osweiler.
4.11 - He has this tendency to throw dumpoffs pretty low. Seems coachable, but I don't like it.
4.19 - Don't love the decision making here. It worked out ok, but could so easily have been a fumble or pick. Under immense pressure the pass rush gets the throw away, but with an unorthodox motion trying to force it out. It worked out, but he should have taken the sack.
Will post the last 2 and a half minutes of analysis later on. _________________
| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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AntiSuperstar 
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 4305
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Brock Osweiler, QB, Denver Broncos(Film study) |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | 0.11 - There's something very Ben Roethlisberger about this kid. |
Certainly not his build. He looks like an anorexic basketball player out there. If he tries to play like Roethlisberger he won't last long. _________________ Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins |
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paul-mac 
Joined: 12 Jul 2009 Posts: 6367 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Brock Osweiler, QB, Denver Broncos(Film study) |
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| AntiSuperstar wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | 0.11 - There's something very Ben Roethlisberger about this kid. |
Certainly not his build. He looks like an anorexic basketball player out there. If he tries to play like Roethlisberger he won't last long. |
I didn't mean build. He's very skinny. Just the way he runs. _________________
| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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inDENguise 
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 632 Location: New England
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously a very small sample size, but this is what I got out of it.
-Very strong pocket presence. Willing to stand in there and take the hit while the play develops.
-Decent scrambling ability, but doesn't run if he doesn't have to.
-Extremely quick delivery for a kid that's 6'7".
-Willing to squeeze the ball into a very small window. Could be a knock, but I like the aggressiveness.
-Scans the field well, and goes through his progressions.
There were an awful lot of screen plays and swing passes called. _________________ 1-Denver Broncos
2-mehhh
3-mehhh |
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AntiSuperstar 
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 4305
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Brock Osweiler, QB, Denver Broncos(Film study) |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | I didn't mean build. He's very skinny. Just the way he runs. |
That's my point though. If he runs like Ben Roethlisberger teams will chop him down and he won't last long. _________________ Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins |
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broncos67 
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 18047 Location: Capitol Cit-ay
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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This is near impossible to determine anything with given that like 75% of the passes are screen/swing passes. He looks like he has a fairly live arm and a quick release, if not a little funky. I don't like his footwork, and that will need to be fixed. He's jumpy and all over the place sometimes. _________________
Thanks, Tzimisce |
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paul-mac 
Joined: 12 Jul 2009 Posts: 6367 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| broncos67 wrote: | | This is near impossible to determine anything with given that like 75% of the passes are screen/swing passes. He looks like he has a fairly live arm and a quick release, if not a little funky. I don't like his footwork, and that will need to be fixed. He's jumpy and all over the place sometimes. |
Tough to tell his arm strength from that tape. His longest throw was < 15 yards. _________________
| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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copeland 
Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 602
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Paul-Mac,
I must respectfully disagree on a couple things here.
At 0.20, I don't feel it has anything to do with the decision making. It's a designed play, basically a long hand off. If you are going to criticize anything, it should be the OC for making that perticular play call that close to your own goal line.
At 3.26, I like the decision just fine, just didn't like the throw being in the dirt.
At 4.19, I'm not sure what you are seeing here. He stepped up in the pocket and made the throw, avoiding the sack. Good decision for positive yards.
Just goes to show how 2 different people can have differing opinions.
The kid looks much better than some are giving him credit for, but by no means a polished player. _________________ I long for the days when giving your word, with a firm handshake, was the "signature on the contract." |
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copeland 
Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 602
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Paul-Mac,
I must respectfully disagree on a couple things here.
At 0.20, I don't feel it has anything to do with the decision making. It's a designed play, basically a long hand off. If you are going to criticize anything, it should be the OC for making that perticular play call that close to your own goal line.
At 3.26, I like the decision just fine, just didn't like the throw being in the dirt.
At 4.19, I'm not sure what you are seeing here. He stepped up in the pocket and made the throw, avoiding the sack. Good decision for positive yards.
Just goes to show how 2 different people can have differing opinions.
The kid looks much better than some are giving him credit for, but by no means a polished player. _________________ I long for the days when giving your word, with a firm handshake, was the "signature on the contract." |
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paul-mac 
Joined: 12 Jul 2009 Posts: 6367 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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4.41 - Oh nice throw. Gets it right into the tight space with great velocity. Reminds me of Jay Cutler.
4.54 - Another scramble here. Pretty nice play.
5.04 - Nothing to see here.
5.10 - Quick release, accurate throw. Sweet.
5.15 - Poor trajectory. Tipped.
5.21 - Made a decent play out of a low snap.
5.33 - Really frustrating watching all these screens.
5.43 - Haha. Slide tackles the linebacker
5.51 - Nice fling under pressure.
6.08 - Had to get the ball out under pressure.
6.14 - Had to get it out and did so efficiently.
6.23 - Innacurate throw. WR had no chance to get it in bounds.
6.36 - Does well to spot the RB open for the TD. _________________
| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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lomaxgr 
Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 19791 Location: Manchester, England
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Brock Osweiler, QB, Denver Broncos(Film study) |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | 0.20 - Dangerous throw there. Throwing a screen to the RB in your own end zone is incredibly poor decision making because two things can happen. If the defense closes in too fast it's a safety, and if a backwards pass is incomplete and the D recovers then it's 6. |
If that is what you see when you see that play, then I think you need to learn a bit more about the basics of the NFL. That is a designed, one option play. Take a look at the WR to the play side of the ball. Is he running a route? No, he is coming back to the Strongside LB who is in man coverage on the RB who is going out into the flat to receive the screen.
There is no decision being made by Osweiler there ... _________________ 20 TIMES, 20 TIMES MAN UNITTTTTEEDDD
From the banks of the River Irwell, to the shores of Sicily |
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paul-mac 
Joined: 12 Jul 2009 Posts: 6367 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough mate. I was just watching Osweiler.
I'm glad you brought that up though. One of the reasons I did this was to help me improve as a talent evaluator. _________________
| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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broncos67 
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 18047 Location: Capitol Cit-ay
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Brock Osweiler, QB, Denver Broncos(Film study) |
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| lomaxgr wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | 0.20 - Dangerous throw there. Throwing a screen to the RB in your own end zone is incredibly poor decision making because two things can happen. If the defense closes in too fast it's a safety, and if a backwards pass is incomplete and the D recovers then it's 6. |
If that is what you see when you see that play, then I think you need to learn a bit more about the basics of the NFL. That is a designed, one option play. Take a look at the WR to the play side of the ball. Is he running a route? No, he is coming back to the Strongside LB who is in man coverage on the RB who is going out into the flat to receive the screen.
There is no decision being made by Osweiler there ... |
Agreed. ASU runs a lot of plays like that in the film, and in the two games I saw this year of them, it seemed to a be a recurring theme, when they were within striking distance or with a lead.
Osweiler has a big arm, no doubt. The big issue I see is that he tends to rely too much on the arm in the pocket sometimes and not step up into his throws. This could be because he's nervous about stepping up into pressure, or that ASU's line was abysmal (it was) and he was trying to avoid taking frequent hits.
Either way, that's a tendency that may not go away and will tend to see him be erratic on some throws. It appears from this film that his footwork, when he has time is pretty solid, could use some tweaks, but when he has pressure in his face, he gets Cutler-esque happy feet.
I do like his quick release though, but he appears to need work on placement. That quick release is welcome after Tebow's elongated one though. No doubt this kid has some tools to work with. _________________
Thanks, Tzimisce |
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lomaxgr 
Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 19791 Location: Manchester, England
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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From the limited snaps, I see the following :-
* inconsistent throwing motion. If this was to do with pressure in his face or using a sidearm motion to get the ball in between throwing lanes I would accept it, but with no pressure around him Brock seems to side arm some balls yet not others. You lose velocity when you side arm a Football, and you can see that on a couple of his throws. Look at the throw on 3.42 (swing pass) compared to 37 seconds. 3.42 is perfect technique, and the ball is perfect. 37 seconds is a side arm ball that is low, and lacks velocity. This needs fixing.
* Willing to stand in the pocket and take a hit whilst keeping eyes downfield; impressive for a young QB.
* My God they threw a lot of swing plays.
* Seems to over stride on some of his throws, which changes the release point of your throw. This should be easily fixed with Coaching.
* Not exactly the perfect spiral coming out of his hand. I know Elway mentioned his motion looked totally different at his Pro Day, but so did a certain #15.
Obviously this is very small sample of work. _________________ 20 TIMES, 20 TIMES MAN UNITTTTTEEDDD
From the banks of the River Irwell, to the shores of Sicily |
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lomaxgr 
Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 19791 Location: Manchester, England
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | Fair enough mate. I was just watching Osweiler.
I'm glad you brought that up though. One of the reasons I did this was to help me improve as a talent evaluator. |
No worries, and I am obviously no professional myself. The problem with breaking down a QB without Coaches tape (i.e the view you play Madden on) is that you can't see what the QB is seeing. Also, we don't know what the design of the play is from a QB read perspective.
If Osweiler sees his #1 read is covered then tucks it and runs, some may lament him for not going through his progressions. But how do we know Brock wasn't Coached to do that in certain scenarios? How do we know what Brock's progressions are? I mean, can you really blame a guy for not throwing to a wide open WR if he is #4 read?
All of this stuff is relative, and it is why Scouts and Coaches love to get QB's on the white board and start breaking down film with the QB's to truly gauge the ability to grasp progressions (although doing it on the field is another thing ..) _________________ 20 TIMES, 20 TIMES MAN UNITTTTTEEDDD
From the banks of the River Irwell, to the shores of Sicily |
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