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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: KT's DE/Pass Rusher Big Board Week 2 |
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I've been researching and scouting pass rushers all offseason and into the start of the season. I'm only focusing on this one position all year. I just wanted some feedback on what I have to this point.
1. #44 Jackson Jeffcoat DE/LB Texas 6'5 245 Jr.
2. #95 Bjourn Werner DE Florida State 6'4 255 Jr.
3. #29 Jarvis Jones DE/LB Georgia 6'3 241 Jr.
4. #99 Sam Montgomery DE LSU 6'5 260 Jr.
5. #80 Alex Okafor DE Texas 6'4 265 Sr.
6. #55 Corey Lemonier DE/LB Auburn 6'4 246 Jr.
7. #2 William Gholston DE Michigan State 6'7 278 Jr.
8. #96 Dion Jordan DE Oregon 6'7 243 Sr.
9. #95 Michael Buchanan DE Illinois 6'6 240 Sr.
10. #3 Kyle Van Noy DE/LB BYU 6'3 235 Jr.
11. #49 Barkevious Mingo DE/LB LSU 6'5 240 Jr.
12. #98 Devin Taylor DE South Carolina 6'8 269 Sr.
13. #93 Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky 6'5 249 Sr.
14. #8 Jamie Collins DE/LB Southern Miss 6'3 239 Sr.
15. #4 Brandon Jenkins DE/LB Florida State 6'3 260 Sr.
16. #11 R.J. Washington DE Oklahoma 6'3 256 Sr.
17. #94 Damontre Moore DE/LB Texas A&M 6'4 250 Jr.
18. #54 John Simon DE Ohio State 6'2 269 Sr.
19. #7 Marquis Jackson DE Portland State 6'4 260 Sr.
20. #91 David Bass DE Missouri Western 6'5 275 Sr.
21. #95 Kareem Martin DE North Carolina 6'6 260 Jr.
22. #43 Travis Johnson DE/LB San Jose St. 6'3 244 Sr.
23. #54 Walter Stewart DE Cincinnati 6'5 249 Sr.
24. #93 Cory Dorris DE Tulsa 6'4 260 Sr.
25. #7 Ronald Powell DE/LB Florida 6'4 244
26. #2 Will Davis DE/LB Kansas State 6'2 240 Jr.
27. #42 Meshak Williams DE Kansas State 6'3 245 Sr.
28. #35 Toben Opurum DE/LB Kansas 6'1 250 Sr.
29. #34 Cameron Meredith DE Nebraska 6'4 260 Sr.
30. #99 James Gayle DE Virginia Tech 6'4 269 Jr.
31. #42 J.R. Collins DE Virginia Tech 6'2 261 Jr.
32. #42 Devon Kennard DE USC 6'3 260 Sr.
33. #90 Stansly Mapongo DE TCU 6'2 265 Jr.
34. #48 Trevado Williams DE/LB UCONN 6'2 233 Sr.
35. #92 Armonty Bryant DE East Central 6'4 250 Sr.
36. #89 Travis Long DE/LB Washington State 6'4 245 Sr.
37. #83 Cornellius Washington DE Georgia 6'4 268 Sr.
38. #55 Jacques Smith DE/LB Tennessee 6'2 244 Jr.
39. #58 Robert Maci DE Purdue 6'4 249 Sr.
40. #84 Kenny Anunike DE Duke 6'5 260 Sr.
41. #89 Lavar Edwards DE LSU 6'5 258 Sr.
42. #91 Marcus Smith DE Louisville 6'3 252 Jr.
43. #43 Nathan Williams DE Ohio State 6'3 249 Sr.
44. #96 Wes Horton DE USC 6'5 255 Sr.
45. #95 D.L. White DE Minnesota 6'3 244 Sr.
46. #97 Aaron Donald DE Pittsburgh 6'0 275 Sr.
47. #56 Dantone Jones DE UCLA 6'4 275 Sr.
48. #99 Dan Giordano DE Cincinnati 6'4 260 Sr.
49. #99 Joe Kruger DE Utah 6'7 280 Jr.
50. #97 Malliciah Goodman DE Clemson 6'4 280 Sr.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48101
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: KT's DE/Pass Rusher Big Board Week 2 |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: | I've been researching and scouting pass rushers all offseason and into the start of the season. I'm only focusing on this one position all year. I just wanted some feedback on what I have to this point.
1. #44 Jackson Jeffcoat DE/LB Texas 6'5 245 Jr.
2. #95 Bjourn Werner DE Florida State 6'4 255 Jr.
3. #29 Jarvis Jones DE/LB Georgia 6'3 241 Jr.
4. #99 Sam Montgomery DE LSU 6'5 260 Jr.
5. #80 Alex Okafor DE Texas 6'4 265 Sr.
6. #55 Corey Lemonier DE/LB Auburn 6'4 246 Jr.
7. #2 William Gholston DE Michigan State 6'7 278 Jr.
8. #96 Dion Jordan DE Oregon 6'7 243 Sr.
9. #95 Michael Buchanan DE Illinois 6'6 240 Sr.
10. #3 Kyle Van Noy DE/LB BYU 6'3 235 Jr.
11. #49 Barkevious Mingo DE/LB LSU 6'5 240 Jr.
12. #98 Devin Taylor DE South Carolina 6'8 269 Sr.
13. #93 Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky 6'5 249 Sr.
14. #8 Jamie Collins DE/LB Southern Miss 6'3 239 Sr.
15. #4 Brandon Jenkins DE/LB Florida State 6'3 260 Sr.
16. #11 R.J. Washington DE Oklahoma 6'3 256 Sr.
17. #94 Damontre Moore DE/LB Texas A&M 6'4 250 Jr.
18. #54 John Simon DE Ohio State 6'2 269 Sr.
19. #7 Marquis Jackson DE Portland State 6'4 260 Sr.
20. #91 David Bass DE Missouri Western 6'5 275 Sr.
21. #95 Kareem Martin DE North Carolina 6'6 260 Jr.
22. #43 Travis Johnson DE/LB San Jose St. 6'3 244 Sr.
23. #54 Walter Stewart DE Cincinnati 6'5 249 Sr.
24. #93 Cory Dorris DE Tulsa 6'4 260 Sr.
25. #7 Ronald Powell DE/LB Florida 6'4 244
26. #2 Will Davis DE/LB Kansas State 6'2 240 Jr.
27. #42 Meshak Williams DE Kansas State 6'3 245 Sr.
28. #35 Toben Opurum DE/LB Kansas 6'1 250 Sr.
29. #34 Cameron Meredith DE Nebraska 6'4 260 Sr.
30. #99 James Gayle DE Virginia Tech 6'4 269 Jr.
31. #42 J.R. Collins DE Virginia Tech 6'2 261 Jr.
32. #42 Devon Kennard DE USC 6'3 260 Sr.
33. #90 Stansly Mapongo DE TCU 6'2 265 Jr.
34. #48 Trevado Williams DE/LB UCONN 6'2 233 Sr.
35. #92 Armonty Bryant DE East Central 6'4 250 Sr.
36. #89 Travis Long DE/LB Washington State 6'4 245 Sr.
37. #83 Cornellius Washington DE Georgia 6'4 268 Sr.
38. #55 Jacques Smith DE/LB Tennessee 6'2 244 Jr.
39. #58 Robert Maci DE Purdue 6'4 249 Sr.
40. #84 Kenny Anunike DE Duke 6'5 260 Sr.
41. #89 Lavar Edwards DE LSU 6'5 258 Sr.
42. #91 Marcus Smith DE Louisville 6'3 252 Jr.
43. #43 Nathan Williams DE Ohio State 6'3 249 Sr.
44. #96 Wes Horton DE USC 6'5 255 Sr.
45. #95 D.L. White DE Minnesota 6'3 244 Sr.
46. #97 Aaron Donald DE Pittsburgh 6'0 275 Sr.
47. #56 Dantone Jones DE UCLA 6'4 275 Sr.
48. #99 Dan Giordano DE Cincinnati 6'4 260 Sr.
49. #99 Joe Kruger DE Utah 6'7 280 Jr.
50. #97 Malliciah Goodman DE Clemson 6'4 280 Sr. |
At this moment in time I would have Jones #1 he is just so polished. He is going to play OLB in the NFL and have a rounded rather than pass rushing focused game, but I would still have him #1.
Dion Jordan is so incredibly verstaile that it is going to help his stock no end.
Not big Lemonier, I want to see him against some bigger teams, but he did not impress me at all against Mississippi State
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Duffman57
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 6931
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: KT's DE/Pass Rusher Big Board Week 2 |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: | I've been researching and scouting pass rushers all offseason and into the start of the season. I'm only focusing on this one position all year. I just wanted some feedback on what I have to this point.
1. #44 Jackson Jeffcoat DE/LB Texas 6'5 245 Jr.
2. #95 Bjourn Werner DE Florida State 6'4 255 Jr.
3. #29 Jarvis Jones DE/LB Georgia 6'3 241 Jr.
4. #99 Sam Montgomery DE LSU 6'5 260 Jr.
5. #80 Alex Okafor DE Texas 6'4 265 Sr.
6. #55 Corey Lemonier DE/LB Auburn 6'4 246 Jr.
7. #2 William Gholston DE Michigan State 6'7 278 Jr.
8. #96 Dion Jordan DE Oregon 6'7 243 Sr.
9. #95 Michael Buchanan DE Illinois 6'6 240 Sr.
10. #3 Kyle Van Noy DE/LB BYU 6'3 235 Jr.
11. #49 Barkevious Mingo DE/LB LSU 6'5 240 Jr.
12. #98 Devin Taylor DE South Carolina 6'8 269 Sr.
13. #93 Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky 6'5 249 Sr.
14. #8 Jamie Collins DE/LB Southern Miss 6'3 239 Sr.
15. #4 Brandon Jenkins DE/LB Florida State 6'3 260 Sr.
16. #11 R.J. Washington DE Oklahoma 6'3 256 Sr.
17. #94 Damontre Moore DE/LB Texas A&M 6'4 250 Jr.
18. #54 John Simon DE Ohio State 6'2 269 Sr.
19. #7 Marquis Jackson DE Portland State 6'4 260 Sr.
20. #91 David Bass DE Missouri Western 6'5 275 Sr.
21. #95 Kareem Martin DE North Carolina 6'6 260 Jr.
22. #43 Travis Johnson DE/LB San Jose St. 6'3 244 Sr.
23. #54 Walter Stewart DE Cincinnati 6'5 249 Sr.
24. #93 Cory Dorris DE Tulsa 6'4 260 Sr.
25. #7 Ronald Powell DE/LB Florida 6'4 244
26. #2 Will Davis DE/LB Kansas State 6'2 240 Jr.
27. #42 Meshak Williams DE Kansas State 6'3 245 Sr.
28. #35 Toben Opurum DE/LB Kansas 6'1 250 Sr.
29. #34 Cameron Meredith DE Nebraska 6'4 260 Sr.
30. #99 James Gayle DE Virginia Tech 6'4 269 Jr.
31. #42 J.R. Collins DE Virginia Tech 6'2 261 Jr.
32. #42 Devon Kennard DE USC 6'3 260 Sr.
33. #90 Stansly Mapongo DE TCU 6'2 265 Jr.
34. #48 Trevado Williams DE/LB UCONN 6'2 233 Sr.
35. #92 Armonty Bryant DE East Central 6'4 250 Sr.
36. #89 Travis Long DE/LB Washington State 6'4 245 Sr.
37. #83 Cornellius Washington DE Georgia 6'4 268 Sr.
38. #55 Jacques Smith DE/LB Tennessee 6'2 244 Jr.
39. #58 Robert Maci DE Purdue 6'4 249 Sr.
40. #84 Kenny Anunike DE Duke 6'5 260 Sr.
41. #89 Lavar Edwards DE LSU 6'5 258 Sr.
42. #91 Marcus Smith DE Louisville 6'3 252 Jr.
43. #43 Nathan Williams DE Ohio State 6'3 249 Sr.
44. #96 Wes Horton DE USC 6'5 255 Sr.
45. #95 D.L. White DE Minnesota 6'3 244 Sr.
46. #97 Aaron Donald DE Pittsburgh 6'0 275 Sr.
47. #56 Dantone Jones DE UCLA 6'4 275 Sr.
48. #99 Dan Giordano DE Cincinnati 6'4 260 Sr.
49. #99 Joe Kruger DE Utah 6'7 280 Jr.
50. #97 Malliciah Goodman DE Clemson 6'4 280 Sr. |
I've been doing work on pass rushers as well. And honestly, i LAUGH at anything that doesn't have Jones/Mingo 1/2.
But its hard to project guys when you're trying to rank LDE's who would be a 5T in a 3-4 with pass rushers who are strictly OLB's in the NFL, ala Jones/Mingo.
So i'm not really sure what exactly what you're ranking, but not matter what you're ranking, there is no chance Jeffcoat is #1 at any position unless you're strictly looking at what they were ranked out of HS.
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Barkevious Mingo is soft. He's not very stout against the run. When an OT gets his hands on Mingo whether its run or pass its game over for Mingo. He has no killer instinct. He has no second effort. Until I see something differently I will leave him at the back end of the 1st to top 2nd, and that is only because of his extreme athletic abilities.
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Duffman57
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 6931
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: | | Barkevious Mingo is soft. He's not very stout against the run. When an OT gets his hands on Mingo whether its run or pass its game over for Mingo. He has no killer instinct. He has no second effort. Until I see something differently I will leave him at the back end of the 1st to top 2nd, and that is only because of his extreme athletic abilities. |
I think thats just more showing how raw he is...because he cant get off blocks doesn't mean he is soft. He hand fights harder than anyone i've ever seen before. He almost needs to keep his hand movement in check because he's throwing full punches out there when he's on blocks... I'm not sure we're watching the same player...
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Everything about Rivers looks awkward, reminiscent of a giraffe with down syndrome. |
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Duffman57 wrote: | | KamTrus20 wrote: | | Barkevious Mingo is soft. He's not very stout against the run. When an OT gets his hands on Mingo whether its run or pass its game over for Mingo. He has no killer instinct. He has no second effort. Until I see something differently I will leave him at the back end of the 1st to top 2nd, and that is only because of his extreme athletic abilities. |
I think thats just more showing how raw he is...because he cant get off blocks doesn't mean he is soft. He hand fights harder than anyone i've ever seen before. He almost needs to keep his hand movement in check because he's throwing full punches out there when he's on blocks... I'm not sure we're watching the same player... |
Raw talent goes middle first to middle second, not 1st or 2nd off the board at respective position.
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Duffman57
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: | | Duffman57 wrote: | | KamTrus20 wrote: | | Barkevious Mingo is soft. He's not very stout against the run. When an OT gets his hands on Mingo whether its run or pass its game over for Mingo. He has no killer instinct. He has no second effort. Until I see something differently I will leave him at the back end of the 1st to top 2nd, and that is only because of his extreme athletic abilities. |
I think thats just more showing how raw he is...because he cant get off blocks doesn't mean he is soft. He hand fights harder than anyone i've ever seen before. He almost needs to keep his hand movement in check because he's throwing full punches out there when he's on blocks... I'm not sure we're watching the same player... |
Raw talent goes middle first to middle second, not 1st or 2nd off the board at respective position. |
Yeah, just like Dontari Poe, Julio Jones, Heyward-Bey, heck even guys like Aldon Smith, Tyronn Smith could be put into that group. Hell in a stretch we could add in Patrick Peterson, who was soley getting by on athleticism in college. All those guys weren't even close to dominant, and extremely raw and went top 5 to top 15, most going top 10.
There's just a sertain point where if a guy is such a good athlete, and has shown flashes of that athleticism where he can dominate plays, like Mingo has, then he is well worth a top 10 to 15 draft pick.
Mingo's burst, motor and speed combined, make him a prospect that can become a consistent top pass rusher in the NFL, and that is such a coveted position right now...
Add that to the fact that he plays a position where Raw Athleticism can almost fully determine how well a player can pan out (see waldo's stats/formula's for pass rushers below), and that puts him at a HIGH premium.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439601
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Everything about Rivers looks awkward, reminiscent of a giraffe with down syndrome. |
Last edited by Duffman57 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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keepnitgangsta1
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
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Location: Belleville, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Michael Buchanan is way too low. Definitely a top 5 in my book, possibly even top 3 (over Werner)
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| keepnitgangsta1 wrote: | | Michael Buchanan is way too low. Definitely a top 5 in my book, possibly even top 3 (over Werner) |
I would tend to agree. IMO Buchanan (provided he is able to bulk up, which I think he has the frame to do so) and Sam Montegomery are the two prospects I think project well to 4-3 defensive end. In the case of Buchanan, I think some teams will look at his athleticism and physical versatility and quite possibly see an impact 3-4 OLB as well.
I agree with the comment that it is tough to toss players into one group of pass rushers as some would grade out higher from a 3-4 perspective while others would likely grade out higher from a 4-3 perspective.
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rabbisson
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Trevardo should be higher. He's basically Dontay Moch with technique.
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| rabbisson wrote: | | Trevardo should be higher. He's basically Dontay Moch with technique. |
I actually had him higher until I watched 3 games of his. 2 from last season and 1 this year. Unless those were his worse three games of his career then I think he's highly overrated. Obviously 3 games is not enough to come to a conclusion so I will continue to watch him throughout the season. We still have 15 weeks or so to get boards shuffled around and finalized.
Michael Buchanan is a guy who is on the rise for me so no worries to those who like him. I think he has more talent than last years 1st rounder Whitney Mercilus. I see William Gholston and Michael Buchanan as guys on the come up and Lemonier and Okafor as guys slipping for me.
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beavsandpatsfan
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Walter Stewart too low....guy will be drafted in first two rounds IMO |
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| beavsandpatsfan wrote: | | Walter Stewart too low....guy will be drafted in first two rounds IMO |
Ahh, now there is a prospect that I really like. I had a chance to watch him closely in the Pitt game and made a comment about him in this forum (IIRC it was in one of the game threads that someone created). I think he could be a name that really moves up draft boards as the season progresses.
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | beavsandpatsfan wrote: | | Walter Stewart too low....guy will be drafted in first two rounds IMO |
Ahh, now there is a prospect that I really like. I had a chance to watch him closely in the Pitt game and made a comment about him in this forum (IIRC it was in one of the game threads that someone created). I think he could be a name that really moves up draft boards as the season progresses. |
He did look good in the Pitt game, but Pitt's o-line was horrid. Not mention Tino Sunseri.
Stewart also needs to bulk up. I think his ranking is about right...
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| beavsandpatsfan wrote: | | Walter Stewart too low....guy will be drafted in first two rounds IMO |
I watch every Cincinnati game every year and no one was talking about him last year or early this season. His game against Pitt was by far his best and has people talking, but he was not the same guy in any of his previous years. I'll have to see more before I move him up. Obviously you've never seen him before and are overreacting after one great game.
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