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Sandybaby716
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3526
Location: Rhode Island
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| wgbeethree wrote: | | Sandybaby716 wrote: | | wgbeethree wrote: | | At 36, 5 million dollars, at BEST the 4th option (more likely 5th or 6th), and a nonfactor on special teams DD makes very little sense to keep around. I would think he needs to take a major paycut in order to stick around and then I still don't see it as the safest bet of happening. |
We have incredible flexibility in the cap following the releases of Collins and Clifton. I see no reason to cut or even restructure Donald right now. If we were in a bind he would be the primary candidate though. We're awfully flexible for next season too. |
It is real money though. We are looking alright now but I'd still rather see Jennings, Lang, or Matthews extended with a large chunk of the cap this year so that we can stay that way rather than to "waste" it on a a guy who despite a great career in GB will be a IMO minor part of our team this upcoming season. |
Matthews isn't going to happen. Very strong likelihood he gets the tag in two years. Also, the cap is expected to blow up by 20m in the season he, Raji, and Finley become free agents.
We actually have right around enough money now to extend Lang and Jennings right now if we wanted. their total raises should be around 6m per season. That's right around what we have.
We literally have no reason to restructure Donald at the moment. Sure, I'd like to see that 3m go towards a better cause (like me, for example), but i'd be very, very shocked to see him restructure (although I was very shocked to see Nick and Wells go and to see Finley return on a team friendly contract).
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| wgbeethree wrote: | | In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party. |
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palmy50
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12536
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| HokieHigh wrote: | | I see potential value in letting Driver stay at his current salary. At the time the signing of Driver's most recent contract, that was a VERY fair deal for both sides. I think it looks good in future negotiations if TT lets his guys play out there contract. So many players see fake money at the end of their deal, it has to be promising to know a GM will pay you what he promises you. |
I don't feel those numbers are that far off anyway. That is still a damn fine slot and his value in the room goes without question. Just saying, he could cut enough to pay Grant. Guy like that closing in on the end off a great career might see value in that as well.
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HokieHigh
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 1652
Location: Blacksburg
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| palmy50 wrote: | | HokieHigh wrote: | | I see potential value in letting Driver stay at his current salary. At the time the signing of Driver's most recent contract, that was a VERY fair deal for both sides. I think it looks good in future negotiations if TT lets his guys play out there contract. So many players see fake money at the end of their deal, it has to be promising to know a GM will pay you what he promises you. |
I don't feel those numbers are that far off anyway. That is still a damn fine slot and his value in the room goes without question. Just saying, he could cut enough to pay Grant. Guy like that closing in on the end off a great career might see value in that as well. |
If I was JJ I might feel a little bit off about making less than Driver if I am producing this year though! |
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ECPackers
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 651
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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moss runs a 4.6, not a 4.3
moss has played 9 career games...no way in blue hell he cracks a NFL 53 this season, PS, maybe.
some of you would go with Cobb and 2 1st year players as 3 of our 5? insane.
jennings/nelson/jones/cobb/any other 1 or 2 guys would be my ideal idea...
maybe driver should stick around another year, great player, but i'll take or leave him this year. coaches decisions.
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GREEN BAY PACKERS
JARRET BUSH IS MY BOY!
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FrozenTundra
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Devil's advocate here:
FWIW - Victor Cruz and Wes Welker were UDFA's. So was Miles Austin. And Lance Moore. Also Nate Washington. Those guys have all been major contributors to their respective teams.
I'm not saying Moss is one of those guys. I'm not saying he isn't.
I will say that most of those guys had NO success in their first couple of seasons on a roster.
Take Welker, for example - he didn't make an impact until his 4th (arguably 3rd) season.
Austin came on in his 4th season.
Moore made his impact in his 4th season.
Cruz came on in his second, he is the exception to the rule.
This is the list of the MOST successful UDFA's in the league at the moment. This doesn't include the numerous UDFA's that wash-out. |
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ajdodge09
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 4006
Location: Jobland looking for jobbies.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| FrozenTundra wrote: | Hi,
Devil's advocate here:
FWIW - Victor Cruz and Wes Welker were UDFA's. So was Miles Austin. And Lance Moore. Also Nate Washington. Those guys have all been major contributors to their respective teams.
I'm not saying Moss is one of those guys. I'm not saying he isn't.
I will say that most of those guys had NO success in their first couple of seasons on a roster.
Take Welker, for example - he didn't make an impact until his 4th (arguably 3rd) season.
Austin came on in his 4th season.
Moore made his impact in his 4th season.
Cruz came on in his second, he is the exception to the rule.
This is the list of the MOST successful UDFA's in the league at the moment. This doesn't include the numerous UDFA's that wash-out. |
Yeah but compare them to the number of UDFA WRs who don't work out. Probably 1/100 end up making a significant impact.
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HokieHigh
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 1652
Location: Blacksburg
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| FrozenTundra wrote: | Hi,
Devil's advocate here:
FWIW - Victor Cruz and Wes Welker were UDFA's. So was Miles Austin. And Lance Moore. Also Nate Washington. Those guys have all been major contributors to their respective teams.
I'm not saying Moss is one of those guys. I'm not saying he isn't.
I will say that most of those guys had NO success in their first couple of seasons on a roster.
Take Welker, for example - he didn't make an impact until his 4th (arguably 3rd) season.
Austin came on in his 4th season.
Moore made his impact in his 4th season.
Cruz came on in his second, he is the exception to the rule.
This is the list of the MOST successful UDFA's in the league at the moment. This doesn't include the numerous UDFA's that wash-out. |
Thank you for this contribution to the conversation. It brings us back to the broader point that I was trying to (insufficiently) put emphasis on. Even the best of these guys took time to break out, Gates and Cruz did it in their 2nd year. Most take longer.
Which is, by definition, a project.
Unless these guys just went completely unnoticed on their rosters and were waiting for their chance. But it would be hard to argue that they would have been just as good their first year and went unnoticed by an NFL coaching staff who gets to see them everyday. |
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FrozenTundra
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Interestingly Moore, Austin, and Welker were all on the roster for a number of games in their initial 3 seasons prior to breaking out. Obviously, it took them time to hone their craft and become valuable contributors.
What I'm trying to say is, UDFA's need to ripen on the PS. |
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HokieHigh
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 1652
Location: Blacksburg
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| FrozenTundra wrote: | Interestingly Moore, Austin, and Welker were all on the roster for a number of games in their initial 3 seasons prior to breaking out. Obviously, it took them time to hone their craft and become valuable contributors.
What I'm trying to say is, UDFA's need to ripen on the PS. |
I think you did a good job of portraying that. |
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ChaRisMa
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 5331
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| FrozenTundra wrote: | Interestingly Moore, Austin, and Welker were all on the roster for a number of games in their initial 3 seasons prior to breaking out. Obviously, it took them time to hone their craft and become valuable contributors.
What I'm trying to say is, UDFA's need to ripen on the PS. |
Kind of like Tori Gurley has been doing for the last year? I love DD but TE business side of things says to let him go.
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| Ted Thompson wrote: | | I'm new school. |
| Santana Dotson wrote: | | "I've always told people that you had your mom and dad looking out for your best interests, and then you had Reggie White. |
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TheGreatZepp
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 2811
Location: Brookfield, WI
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ChaRisMa wrote: | | FrozenTundra wrote: | Interestingly Moore, Austin, and Welker were all on the roster for a number of games in their initial 3 seasons prior to breaking out. Obviously, it took them time to hone their craft and become valuable contributors.
What I'm trying to say is, UDFA's need to ripen on the PS. |
Kind of like Tori Gurley has been doing for the last year? I love DD but TE business side of things says to let him go. |
You're assuming that Gurley makes huge strides between last year and this summer. One could argue that Gurley wasn't even the best wide receiver in camp last year not to make the roster. While it is a business, I don't see how DD is getting scratched off before camp. He's a tough assignment in the slot, doesn't have the speed he did but he can find the gaps in coverage underneath better then anyone else on the roster. I'm not saying Gurley doesn't make the roster and that Driver does. If Gurley comes to camp and doesn't show signs of being a future starter I would have to go with DD otherwise you're throwing away the comfort and security in what you have with DD for a player that could probably be replaced with a fourth rounder next year.
I just have a hard time tampering with the offensive weapons when the Packers are among the favorites for the Super Bowl. Yes, $5 million is a lot of money but it's all about using the alloted salary cap to put the most talent on the roster and using "we need that money for extensions" doesn't make for a better team this year. Now Driver could hit the WR wall, and it could be this year but he's defied odds his entire career and I'm not betting against him.
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PACKRULE
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 1271
Location: saskatoon
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Sorry don't mean to chime in here but UDFA but those that are saying UDFA's' do't have a huge impact in this league are wrong. The Packers generally have 1-2 each year that come out and make our team and our good players.
Here is a lsit of the top 25 UDFA names any look familiar. Some dam HOF"s that were undrafted. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any sentiment about this Moss kid but good thing the Steelers didn't give up on Harrison. Even better we didnt' give up on Jankins, Tramon Williams and Sam Sheids.
What a great way to motivate players when the believe that they may havea shot in Green Bay. I believe that is why we get some very good UDFA's here is because we give them a legit shot.
Very interesting list.
Top 25 Undrafted Free Agents in the NFL over the last 25 Years
1. Kurt Warner, QB, Northern Iowa
2. John Randle, DT, Texas A&I
3. Antonio Gates, TE, Kent State
4. Wes Welker, WR, Texas Tech
5.Adam Vinatieri, K, South Dakota State
6. Brian Waters, G, North Texas
7. Jeff Saturday, C, North Carolina
8. Priest Holmes, RB, Texas
9. Tony Romo, QB, Eastern Illinois
10. James Harrison, LB, Kent State
11. Rod Smith, WR, Missouri Southern
12. Jesse Tuggle, LB, Valdosta
13. Pat Williams, DT, Texas A&M
14. Jeff Garcia, QB, San Jose State
15. London Fletcher, LB, John Carroll
16. Arian Foster, RB, Tennessee
17. David Akers, K, Louisville
18. Shaun O'Hara, C, Rutgers
19. Bart Scott, LB, Southern Illinois
20. Antonio Pierce, LB, Arizona
21. Jake Delhomme, QB, Louisiana-Lafayette
22. Barry Sims, T, Utah
23. Wayne Chrebet, WR, Hofstra
24. Josh Cribbs, KR/PR, Kent State
25. Cullen Jenkins, DL, Central Michigan |
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HokieHigh
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 1652
Location: Blacksburg
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| No one is saying they don't have an impact (I don't think). I am saying that they very often take time to develop as a project. |
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Jr911
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:49 am Post subject: |
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all this talk about Moss, but what do you guys think about the NCAA's all-time reception leader WR Michael Zweifel? 463 career receptions at Dubuque University...he was invited to participate in rookie camp
6'1" 190lbs, 4.56 forty yard dash, vertical jump 35 inches, and 6.52 three-cone drill...for all you #'s guys...lol
thoughts? |
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TheGreatZepp
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 2811
Location: Brookfield, WI
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:49 am Post subject: |
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No one is saying that UDFA's can't or won't make an impact, just that their odds are by far the longest. There are more UDFA's each season then draft picks and odds of finding a future ten-year contributor decreases with each round. Every team will have 9+ receivers in their camps, I think it's safe to say that there will be over 100 first or second year UDFA WR's trying to earn a roster spot around the league this year.
No one said a UDFA can't succeed but until they do, they are just another body living the dream day by day.
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