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| NSFL Expansion Vote (See details in thread) |
| FOR League Expansion |
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52% |
[ 9 ] |
| AGAINST League Expansion |
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47% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
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| Author |
Message |
Seahawks22
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 2076
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I agree with this. I'm not against expansion but its the expansion draft that I don't like. We should be able to protect at least 5-6 players.
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Tk3
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1586
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Seahawks22 wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I agree with this. I'm not against expansion but its the expansion draft that I don't like. We should be able to protect at least 5-6 players. |
Protecting 5-6 players is basically saying to use our keeper tags, then the new teams get first crack in the draft..
I personally think this is too big of a hit for the new teams to have to take..
I vote either do expansion WITH the proposed expansion draft, or keep it as is..
I get that we all built our teams how we like them, but we have to either sacrifice a little bit to help the league grow, or we have to stay the way it is..
I see no benefit to inviting teams in, then immediately trying to cripple said teams..
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TheKillerNacho
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 7347
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I actually agree with your points but not the conclusions.
To me, expansion is pointless unless the teams can be competitive. Maybe not the initial season, but at least, soon. As you said, each team is currently made up of 4-5 "elite" players. I'd actually argue that number is more like 5-6. The rest of each team is made up of by "solid players". Without an expansion draft, the new teams would be completely made up of "solid players" but they need at least a few "elite players" to be competitive.
What Tk3 said above is true. My proposed expansion draft still favors the current teams. Expansion teams get four players each that could be considered elite, while old teams are dropped down to 4-5. However, with each current team able to protect three players, the "elite players" that new teams will obtain still probably won't be on the same level, but its a start.
The proposed expansion draft only requires each current owner to surrender one player from their roster. That's it. And with three Protected players, you get a big say on who it is. It really helps the new teams more than it hurts the current ones. As Tk3 said above, there is no point to invite more teams in the league just for them to be crippled. I think it would take several seasons for new teams to be competitive unless there is some way to give them an edge.
If anyone has any other alternatives to an Expansion draft (or a modification to my current proposed Expansion draft) that would allow new teams to compete, I'm all ears.
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mgoblue44
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 2746
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TheKillerNacho wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I actually agree with your points but not the conclusions.
To me, expansion is pointless unless the teams can be competitive. Maybe not the initial season, but at least, soon. As you said, each team is currently made up of 4-5 "elite" players. I'd actually argue that number is more like 5-6. The rest of each team is made up of by "solid players". Without an expansion draft, the new teams would be completely made up of "solid players" but they need at least a few "elite players" to be competitive.
What Tk3 said above is true. My proposed expansion draft still favors the current teams. Expansion teams get four players each that could be considered elite, while old teams are dropped down to 4-5. However, with each current team able to protect three players, the "elite players" that new teams will obtain still probably won't be on the same level, but its a start.
The proposed expansion draft only requires each current owner to surrender one player from their roster. That's it. And with three Protected players, you get a big say on who it is. It really helps the new teams more than it hurts the current ones. As Tk3 said above, there is no point to invite more teams in the league just for them to be crippled. I think it would take several seasons for new teams to be competitive unless there is some way to give them an edge.
If anyone has any other alternatives to an Expansion draft (or a modification to my current proposed Expansion draft) that would allow new teams to compete, I'm all ears. |
Bold #1: I wasn't saying that each team has 4-5 elite players. Frankly, I agree that with only 16 teams there is a high number of elite players on each team. Im saying that for the guys who have been participating from the beginning, we have players that we have kept through every season and spent keeper tags on them as 1st priority for every season. For me, Ive used keepers on Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Michael Turner every year to make sure that they stay as the cornerstones of my franchise. Having only 3 players protected in the expansion draft pretty much ensures I will lose one of my cornerstone players. I think that the other owners would agree with me.
Bold #2: That is simply not true. My team is the perfect example of how in one draft, you can flip the entire fortunes of your franchise. I went 3-11 the first season and was tied for having the worst record in the league. I got a high draft pick the 2nd season and completely rebuilt my team through the draft. I went 10-4 the second season and went to the conference finals.
I think the returning owners should be able to protect 5 players in the expansion draft instead of 3. I think that is fair for both sides.
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Seahawks22
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 2076
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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How about we have the expansion teams have first dibs on the rookies and 1 unprotected player from each team?
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TheKillerNacho
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 7347
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mgoblue44 wrote: | | TheKillerNacho wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I actually agree with your points but not the conclusions.
To me, expansion is pointless unless the teams can be competitive. Maybe not the initial season, but at least, soon. As you said, each team is currently made up of 4-5 "elite" players. I'd actually argue that number is more like 5-6. The rest of each team is made up of by "solid players". Without an expansion draft, the new teams would be completely made up of "solid players" but they need at least a few "elite players" to be competitive.
What Tk3 said above is true. My proposed expansion draft still favors the current teams. Expansion teams get four players each that could be considered elite, while old teams are dropped down to 4-5. However, with each current team able to protect three players, the "elite players" that new teams will obtain still probably won't be on the same level, but its a start.
The proposed expansion draft only requires each current owner to surrender one player from their roster. That's it. And with three Protected players, you get a big say on who it is. It really helps the new teams more than it hurts the current ones. As Tk3 said above, there is no point to invite more teams in the league just for them to be crippled. I think it would take several seasons for new teams to be competitive unless there is some way to give them an edge.
If anyone has any other alternatives to an Expansion draft (or a modification to my current proposed Expansion draft) that would allow new teams to compete, I'm all ears. |
Bold #1: I wasn't saying that each team has 4-5 elite players. Frankly, I agree that with only 16 teams there is a high number of elite players on each team. Im saying that for the guys who have been participating from the beginning, we have players that we have kept through every season and spent keeper tags on them as 1st priority for every season. For me, Ive used keepers on Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Michael Turner every year to make sure that they stay as the cornerstones of my franchise. Having only 3 players protected in the expansion draft pretty much ensures I will lose one of my cornerstone players. I think that the other owners would agree with me.
Bold #2: That is simply not true. My team is the perfect example of how in one draft, you can flip the entire fortunes of your franchise. I went 3-11 the first season and was tied for having the worst record in the league. I got a high draft pick the 2nd season and completely rebuilt my team through the draft. I went 10-4 the second season and went to the conference finals.
I think the returning owners should be able to protect 5 players in the expansion draft instead of 3. I think that is fair for both sides. |
I understand your points & point of view. This is why I made it a vote to begin with. I'd be willing to compromise and make it 4 Protected players. How does that sound?
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Tk3
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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I think we need to sacrifice for the good of the league..
We are all playing by the same rules.. Its not like everyone will gang up on YOU alone and be screwed..
Part of the fun is in the challenge, and what better way to challenge yourself in the league than by increasing the number of competitors and giving them a fighting chance..
Besides, it is just a SIM and if things are diluted you can always draft well in the future and get back to where you are..
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mgoblue44
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Im cool with 4. Ultimately, I did not think 3 was enough.
I really was not trying to be a pain, just giving my two cents.
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RuskieTitan
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 34053
Location: Front lines of Titania
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
My thought process as well, and why I too voted against expansion.
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RuskieTitan
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| mgoblue44 wrote: | | TheKillerNacho wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I actually agree with your points but not the conclusions.
To me, expansion is pointless unless the teams can be competitive. Maybe not the initial season, but at least, soon. As you said, each team is currently made up of 4-5 "elite" players. I'd actually argue that number is more like 5-6. The rest of each team is made up of by "solid players". Without an expansion draft, the new teams would be completely made up of "solid players" but they need at least a few "elite players" to be competitive.
What Tk3 said above is true. My proposed expansion draft still favors the current teams. Expansion teams get four players each that could be considered elite, while old teams are dropped down to 4-5. However, with each current team able to protect three players, the "elite players" that new teams will obtain still probably won't be on the same level, but its a start.
The proposed expansion draft only requires each current owner to surrender one player from their roster. That's it. And with three Protected players, you get a big say on who it is. It really helps the new teams more than it hurts the current ones. As Tk3 said above, there is no point to invite more teams in the league just for them to be crippled. I think it would take several seasons for new teams to be competitive unless there is some way to give them an edge.
If anyone has any other alternatives to an Expansion draft (or a modification to my current proposed Expansion draft) that would allow new teams to compete, I'm all ears. |
Bold #1: I wasn't saying that each team has 4-5 elite players. Frankly, I agree that with only 16 teams there is a high number of elite players on each team. Im saying that for the guys who have been participating from the beginning, we have players that we have kept through every season and spent keeper tags on them as 1st priority for every season. For me, Ive used keepers on Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Michael Turner every year to make sure that they stay as the cornerstones of my franchise. Having only 3 players protected in the expansion draft pretty much ensures I will lose one of my cornerstone players. I think that the other owners would agree with me.
Bold #2: That is simply not true. My team is the perfect example of how in one draft, you can flip the entire fortunes of your franchise. I went 3-11 the first season and was tied for having the worst record in the league. I got a high draft pick the 2nd season and completely rebuilt my team through the draft. I went 10-4 the second season and went to the conference finals.
I think the returning owners should be able to protect 5 players in the expansion draft instead of 3. I think that is fair for both sides. |
Agree with your points again.
I've had Tuck, CJ2K, and Roos since the very start, as well as Suh since he's entered the league. Those are my 4 primary, must-franchise guys.
Problem is, I also paid up big to get Nnamdi for this season. Now I'm sitting at 5 guys, one of which WILL be taken from me during the expansion.
I mean, there's a number of other players I'd want to keep as well (Cruz, JJ, etc.), but those would be considered my 'elite' players. I have tagged those 4 through the seasons, and Nnamdi would be joining them.
If we go to 4, I dunno. I think I'd still be against it, but I understand that new teams need a little bit of help. I just think that if I had known we would be expanding in this manner, I'm not quite sure I would have done the same trade for Nnamdi.
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Tk3
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1586
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| RuskieTitan wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | | TheKillerNacho wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I actually agree with your points but not the conclusions.
To me, expansion is pointless unless the teams can be competitive. Maybe not the initial season, but at least, soon. As you said, each team is currently made up of 4-5 "elite" players. I'd actually argue that number is more like 5-6. The rest of each team is made up of by "solid players". Without an expansion draft, the new teams would be completely made up of "solid players" but they need at least a few "elite players" to be competitive.
What Tk3 said above is true. My proposed expansion draft still favors the current teams. Expansion teams get four players each that could be considered elite, while old teams are dropped down to 4-5. However, with each current team able to protect three players, the "elite players" that new teams will obtain still probably won't be on the same level, but its a start.
The proposed expansion draft only requires each current owner to surrender one player from their roster. That's it. And with three Protected players, you get a big say on who it is. It really helps the new teams more than it hurts the current ones. As Tk3 said above, there is no point to invite more teams in the league just for them to be crippled. I think it would take several seasons for new teams to be competitive unless there is some way to give them an edge.
If anyone has any other alternatives to an Expansion draft (or a modification to my current proposed Expansion draft) that would allow new teams to compete, I'm all ears. |
Bold #1: I wasn't saying that each team has 4-5 elite players. Frankly, I agree that with only 16 teams there is a high number of elite players on each team. Im saying that for the guys who have been participating from the beginning, we have players that we have kept through every season and spent keeper tags on them as 1st priority for every season. For me, Ive used keepers on Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Michael Turner every year to make sure that they stay as the cornerstones of my franchise. Having only 3 players protected in the expansion draft pretty much ensures I will lose one of my cornerstone players. I think that the other owners would agree with me.
Bold #2: That is simply not true. My team is the perfect example of how in one draft, you can flip the entire fortunes of your franchise. I went 3-11 the first season and was tied for having the worst record in the league. I got a high draft pick the 2nd season and completely rebuilt my team through the draft. I went 10-4 the second season and went to the conference finals.
I think the returning owners should be able to protect 5 players in the expansion draft instead of 3. I think that is fair for both sides. |
Agree with your points again.
I've had Tuck, CJ2K, and Roos since the very start, as well as Suh since he's entered the league. Those are my 4 primary, must-franchise guys.
Problem is, I also paid up big to get Nnamdi for this season. Now I'm sitting at 5 guys, one of which WILL be taken from me during the expansion.
I mean, there's a number of other players I'd want to keep as well (Cruz, JJ, etc.), but those would be considered my 'elite' players. I have tagged those 4 through the seasons, and Nnamdi would be joining them.
If we go to 4, I dunno. I think I'd still be against it, but I understand that new teams need a little bit of help. I just think that if I had known we would be expanding in this manner, I'm not quite sure I would have done the same trade for Nnamdi. |
You will fall from 5 "elite" to 4..
But everybody else who has 5 "elite" will fall to 4 (or if they have 4 "elite" they will fall to 3)
Yes you lose a piece, but as everything in the league is RELATIVE, you are not actually "losing" at all..
Does that make sense? It is not a "real" loss, it is purely an emotional loss, and over the course of the league you will find plenty of players to fill that emotional void..
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RuskieTitan
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 34053
Location: Front lines of Titania
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Tk3 wrote: | | RuskieTitan wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | | TheKillerNacho wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I actually agree with your points but not the conclusions.
To me, expansion is pointless unless the teams can be competitive. Maybe not the initial season, but at least, soon. As you said, each team is currently made up of 4-5 "elite" players. I'd actually argue that number is more like 5-6. The rest of each team is made up of by "solid players". Without an expansion draft, the new teams would be completely made up of "solid players" but they need at least a few "elite players" to be competitive.
What Tk3 said above is true. My proposed expansion draft still favors the current teams. Expansion teams get four players each that could be considered elite, while old teams are dropped down to 4-5. However, with each current team able to protect three players, the "elite players" that new teams will obtain still probably won't be on the same level, but its a start.
The proposed expansion draft only requires each current owner to surrender one player from their roster. That's it. And with three Protected players, you get a big say on who it is. It really helps the new teams more than it hurts the current ones. As Tk3 said above, there is no point to invite more teams in the league just for them to be crippled. I think it would take several seasons for new teams to be competitive unless there is some way to give them an edge.
If anyone has any other alternatives to an Expansion draft (or a modification to my current proposed Expansion draft) that would allow new teams to compete, I'm all ears. |
Bold #1: I wasn't saying that each team has 4-5 elite players. Frankly, I agree that with only 16 teams there is a high number of elite players on each team. Im saying that for the guys who have been participating from the beginning, we have players that we have kept through every season and spent keeper tags on them as 1st priority for every season. For me, Ive used keepers on Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Michael Turner every year to make sure that they stay as the cornerstones of my franchise. Having only 3 players protected in the expansion draft pretty much ensures I will lose one of my cornerstone players. I think that the other owners would agree with me.
Bold #2: That is simply not true. My team is the perfect example of how in one draft, you can flip the entire fortunes of your franchise. I went 3-11 the first season and was tied for having the worst record in the league. I got a high draft pick the 2nd season and completely rebuilt my team through the draft. I went 10-4 the second season and went to the conference finals.
I think the returning owners should be able to protect 5 players in the expansion draft instead of 3. I think that is fair for both sides. |
Agree with your points again.
I've had Tuck, CJ2K, and Roos since the very start, as well as Suh since he's entered the league. Those are my 4 primary, must-franchise guys.
Problem is, I also paid up big to get Nnamdi for this season. Now I'm sitting at 5 guys, one of which WILL be taken from me during the expansion.
I mean, there's a number of other players I'd want to keep as well (Cruz, JJ, etc.), but those would be considered my 'elite' players. I have tagged those 4 through the seasons, and Nnamdi would be joining them.
If we go to 4, I dunno. I think I'd still be against it, but I understand that new teams need a little bit of help. I just think that if I had known we would be expanding in this manner, I'm not quite sure I would have done the same trade for Nnamdi. |
You will fall from 5 "elite" to 4..
But everybody else who has 5 "elite" will fall to 4 (or if they have 4 "elite" they will fall to 3)
Yes you lose a piece, but as everything in the league is RELATIVE, you are not actually "losing" at all..
Does that make sense? It is not a "real" loss, it is purely an emotional loss, and over the course of the league you will find plenty of players to fill that emotional void.. |
Let me put it this way.
Let's say that the Redskins have Larry Fitzgerald, Demarcus Ware, and Nnamdi Asomugha. Three superstars at their position.
They decide to make a move in the draft. They gave up 3 firsts and some seconds to get RGIII (just like in real life).
After the season is over, they learn that they can only keep 3 of their top 4 players.
Do you not think, if they had known ahead of time, that they would have rather kept their draft picks for the past and future, rather than essentially pay even more for RGIII by having to give up one of their other stars?
That's the point I'm trying to convey. I realize everyone is losing... but as I've stated, I've had 4 players (CJ2K, Suh, Tuck, and Roos) that have been a staple of my team for all the seasons. I made a move to pick up Nnamdi before this past season, and now it appears that, even if we move to 4 players protected instead of 3, that I will lose one of those players. I gave up a number of picks to get Nnamdi (3rd last year, paying a 4th this year, not to mention Mathews as well), I made moves to ensure I had tags to keep my team intact (Suh's suspension), and now I'm most likely losing one of my guys that I had built this team around, or a new player that I gave up a lot of picks for... essentially, a 1 year rental.
If I had known ahead of time, that a situation such as this would arise (Losing one of my franchise players)... I don't think I would have done that trade. Hell, if I decide not to protect Nnamdi, I could end up giving up a 4th this year for a player I won't even have anymore 
Let me put it this way:
Victor Cruz, Joe Flacco, Jonathan Joseph, Evan Mathis, Antonio Gates, and a number of other players I have I was also considering as some that I would like to keep. A few of those are elite or borderline elite. If I lost one of them, it would suck, since I'd have wanted to keep them.
But I've set up the Pirates with 5 primary franchise players, and whichever one I don't end up protecting will most likely end up being the one selected.
Meh. It's just my own personal opinion. You don't have to like it. Ultimately, the majority decides, and I'll stick with the league regardless of what happens.
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TheKillerNacho
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| RuskieTitan wrote: | | Tk3 wrote: | | RuskieTitan wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | | TheKillerNacho wrote: | | mgoblue44 wrote: | In case it goes to hand count vote.
I voted against. Not because I don't like the idea of expanding to 20 teams, but I don't like the expansion draft idea. For the owners like myself who have been participating since the beginning, our teams are built on a solid foundation of 4-5 players that make up the hearts of our teams. Only getting 3 players to protect can lead to one of those guys being picked in the expansion draft. I don't think the expansion draft is necessary because the new teams can still build a competitive team through the regular draft. Lots of solid players don't get tagged by teams every year.
Just my two cents |
I actually agree with your points but not the conclusions.
To me, expansion is pointless unless the teams can be competitive. Maybe not the initial season, but at least, soon. As you said, each team is currently made up of 4-5 "elite" players. I'd actually argue that number is more like 5-6. The rest of each team is made up of by "solid players". Without an expansion draft, the new teams would be completely made up of "solid players" but they need at least a few "elite players" to be competitive.
What Tk3 said above is true. My proposed expansion draft still favors the current teams. Expansion teams get four players each that could be considered elite, while old teams are dropped down to 4-5. However, with each current team able to protect three players, the "elite players" that new teams will obtain still probably won't be on the same level, but its a start.
The proposed expansion draft only requires each current owner to surrender one player from their roster. That's it. And with three Protected players, you get a big say on who it is. It really helps the new teams more than it hurts the current ones. As Tk3 said above, there is no point to invite more teams in the league just for them to be crippled. I think it would take several seasons for new teams to be competitive unless there is some way to give them an edge.
If anyone has any other alternatives to an Expansion draft (or a modification to my current proposed Expansion draft) that would allow new teams to compete, I'm all ears. |
Bold #1: I wasn't saying that each team has 4-5 elite players. Frankly, I agree that with only 16 teams there is a high number of elite players on each team. Im saying that for the guys who have been participating from the beginning, we have players that we have kept through every season and spent keeper tags on them as 1st priority for every season. For me, Ive used keepers on Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Michael Turner every year to make sure that they stay as the cornerstones of my franchise. Having only 3 players protected in the expansion draft pretty much ensures I will lose one of my cornerstone players. I think that the other owners would agree with me.
Bold #2: That is simply not true. My team is the perfect example of how in one draft, you can flip the entire fortunes of your franchise. I went 3-11 the first season and was tied for having the worst record in the league. I got a high draft pick the 2nd season and completely rebuilt my team through the draft. I went 10-4 the second season and went to the conference finals.
I think the returning owners should be able to protect 5 players in the expansion draft instead of 3. I think that is fair for both sides. |
Agree with your points again.
I've had Tuck, CJ2K, and Roos since the very start, as well as Suh since he's entered the league. Those are my 4 primary, must-franchise guys.
Problem is, I also paid up big to get Nnamdi for this season. Now I'm sitting at 5 guys, one of which WILL be taken from me during the expansion.
I mean, there's a number of other players I'd want to keep as well (Cruz, JJ, etc.), but those would be considered my 'elite' players. I have tagged those 4 through the seasons, and Nnamdi would be joining them.
If we go to 4, I dunno. I think I'd still be against it, but I understand that new teams need a little bit of help. I just think that if I had known we would be expanding in this manner, I'm not quite sure I would have done the same trade for Nnamdi. |
You will fall from 5 "elite" to 4..
But everybody else who has 5 "elite" will fall to 4 (or if they have 4 "elite" they will fall to 3)
Yes you lose a piece, but as everything in the league is RELATIVE, you are not actually "losing" at all..
Does that make sense? It is not a "real" loss, it is purely an emotional loss, and over the course of the league you will find plenty of players to fill that emotional void.. |
Let me put it this way.
Let's say that the Redskins have Larry Fitzgerald, Demarcus Ware, and Nnamdi Asomugha. Three superstars at their position.
They decide to make a move in the draft. They gave up 3 firsts and some seconds to get RGIII (just like in real life).
After the season is over, they learn that they can only keep 3 of their top 4 players.
Do you not think, if they had known ahead of time, that they would have rather kept their draft picks for the past and future, rather than essentially pay even more for RGIII by having to give up one of their other stars?
That's the point I'm trying to convey. I realize everyone is losing... but as I've stated, I've had 4 players (CJ2K, Suh, Tuck, and Roos) that have been a staple of my team for all the seasons. I made a move to pick up Nnamdi before this past season, and now it appears that, even if we move to 4 players protected instead of 3, that I will lose one of those players. I gave up quite a number of picks to get Nnamdi, I made moves to ensure I had tags to keep my team intact (Suh's suspension), and now I'm most likely losing one of my guys that I had built this team around, or a new player that I gave up a lot of picks for... essentially, a 1 year rental.
If I had known ahead of time, that a situation such as this would arise (Losing one of my franchise players)... I don't think I would have done that trade.
Let me put it this way:
Victor Cruz, Joe Flacco, Jonathan Joseph, Evan Mathis, Antonio Gates, and a number of other players I was also considering as some that I would like to keep. A few of those are elite or borderline elite. If I lost one of them, it would suck, since I'd have wanted to keep them.
But I've set up the Pirates with 5 primary franchise players, and whichever one I don't end up protecting will most likely end up being the one selected.
Meh. It's just my own personal opinion. You don't have to like it. Ultimately, the majority decides, and I'll stick with the league regardless of what happens. |
I really do understand what you mean.
I'm perfectly fine keeping the league 16 teams. The mathematics works out nicer and its less work for me, heh. But if we do expand to 20, the four new teams need something to be able to compete. Do you have an alternate idea? Maybe give them four picks in the actual draft before anyone else? Giving old teams 5 Protected players?
Really I care about one thing: Making the league fun for owners. Many owners have expressed interest in an expansion, but if those players come in and don't have an opportunity to really compete with the older teams, those owners won't be having fun. At the same time, its not fun for current owners to lose players in their teams they've been building since the beginning.
Don't really know if there is a perfect solution.
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RuskieTitan
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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There's not a perfect solution. I think everyone can agree that we want more teams in the league; but how to make it fair is difficult.
Making them have a few draft rounds before the regular draft isn't going to work - I know I've worked to set up my team to be able to keep the majority of the top talent.
I think 4 players might be the 'most fair' balance, I dunno. I just know in my situation, I've got 5 players I want to keep. I'll have to decide which one I risk setting up with the unprotected. Hell, it's likely someone prefers to take one of my unprotected players (Cruz, Gates, JJ, etc.).
Like I said before, I'm glad I don't have to make the ultimate decision, and I'll go with whatever the majority feel is best.
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Its A Sabotage
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Eh, expansion is fine, gives us a little more parity as it gets a little boring seeing Elite v. Elite every week...So what if I lose an Elite player? I lost 3 last year to the first round alone (while having the worst record the previous year) and was still able to come back to win. Granted I have only been here for now 2(3) years, it is fun to have the league evolve and to get more involved. Makes for a better product....plus the chance of not having to face the top-5 RBs for 8 straight weeks doesn't hurt neither.
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