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Ponder 2012
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Kellerman


Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3551
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
Vikefan79 wrote:
Frank Costello wrote:
Ponder's first game against GB is all the faith I need. He can be a successful QB in this league given more time and weapons.


Agreed. I watched clips from that game yesterday. He made some great throws in that game.


He did indeed make some great throws in that game, but he threw just as many - if not more - terrible passes.

Charles Woodson dropped two simple interceptions - Woodson himself said after the game that he should have had 4 picks, not just 2. And the stats are still a bit skewed from that game because Ponder's first pass was a 70+-yard bomb when the GB defense wasn't expecting it.


It's obvious that Ponder will need to improve quite a bit if he is to be a long-term starter for the Vikings, nobody will argue that. With a vastly improved Vikings team, and a full off-season of OTAs, workouts, etc, and the experiences of his rookie season under his belt, I am confident that Ponder will make a huge step forward.

Nobody knows where this path will lead, whether Ponder will become a bust, an all-time great, or anything in between, but at the rare times the offense did click, Ponder's arm looked good, he's obviously a smart kid as well, and has some wheels. The tools are there to develop, but you have to give the kid a fair chance. And in my book, coming in after 5 games when McNabb had effectively sunk our season, no off-season, no weapons, no O-line, no defense, no real direction (Frazier vs Spielman), injury, etc, is not getting a fair chance. I don't think any rookie QB would have survived that mess.

If Ponder doesn't go through a marked improvement next year I'll eat my crow, but I just don't think it's justified to write him off based on last season. Not just based on the horrible situation he was in, but also because of the good throws he made at times, and the potential he did flash in several games.
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ArcticNorseman


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2049
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really look forward to this year!

Obviously, we can all look back at what occurred on the Vikes and other teams in the past and rationalize where things were good or bad.

We can also compare Ponder to QB X, Y or Z of the '70, '80s, '90s or this century and find all those 1st/2nd round rookies that started and see how they fared.

The difference between success and failure at that position seems to be smarts, character and physical abilities.

For those sentiments, I'm a believer that Ponder will evolve nicely in 2012.

Given the fact the Defense HAS to be better . . . the Vikes should be in contention for victories much more often.

Ponder may say the positive things he's said like he's now the leader etc. I like the fact that Joe Webb isn't clamoring to be the starter also -- but we all HAVE to know Webb's a talent that can't be shelved for long if the team's not winning.

I don't want Ponder looking over his shoulder too much --- focus forward!
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikefan79 wrote:
That Toby Gerhart quote is a little off VD. Laughing

oops, i see that now! and corrected it.

it was Gerhart saying Ponder is taking ownership of the team, not the other way around. good catch.
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Patv


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta admit that I am extremely excited to see what Ponder is going to do this year. My O-line coach at the college I play for made a prediction for Ponder this year that he's going to surprise people in big ways and he'll definitely take a leadership role.

The reason I put a lot of stock into him saying that is because he knows Christian Ponder on a personal basis since he coached Ponder for the 4 years he was in High School. He talks about him regularly and stays in touch with Ponder's father talking to him a couple of times a year.

I hope he is right. Would be nice to have a legitimate player behind center again.
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joru1000


Joined: 23 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

last night i had a dream we were in a texas chainsaw massacre version of my house. it was me, mena suvari, liam neeson and christian ponder. christian ponder's character was dating mena suvari's and at one point he goes to find her in my basement but he gets butchered and it turns out it was mena suvari who did it. then she comes up my basement stairs and gets cut in half by liam neeson (who's the protagonist) with a chainsaw. it turns out christian ponder is still alive and we rush him to the hospital for a blood transfusion. the movie ends while we are en route to the hospital and ponder's fate is unknown.

i know this had absolutely nothing to do with the thread but it deeply disturbed me and i have no idea why i would dream this. maybe it means i'm concerned about ponder's safety? anyways thanks for listening guys, now back to the thread lol.

Crying or Very sad
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Virginia Viking


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joru1000 wrote:
last night i had a dream we were in a texas chainsaw massacre version of my house. it was me, mena suvari, liam neeson and christian ponder. christian ponder's character was dating mena suvari's and at one point he goes to find her in my basement but he gets butchered and it turns out it was mena suvari who did it. then she comes up my basement stairs and gets cut in half by liam neeson (who's the protagonist) with a chainsaw. it turns out christian ponder is still alive and we rush him to the hospital for a blood transfusion. the movie ends while we are en route to the hospital and ponder's fate is unknown.

i know this had absolutely nothing to do with the thread but it deeply disturbed me and i have no idea why i would dream this. maybe it means i'm concerned about ponder's safety? anyways thanks for listening guys, now back to the thread lol.
Crying or Very sad



Hmmmmmm....watch fewer slasher movies...and go easy on the "mushrooms" on your pizza! Wink
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joru1000 wrote:
i know this had absolutely nothing to do with the thread but it deeply disturbed me and i have no idea why i would dream this. maybe it means i'm concerned about ponder's safety? anyways thanks for listening guys, now back to the thread lol.

Crying or Very sad

i would be more concerned who the mena suvari character represents to your subconcious. and i imagine your dream has little to do with football, by the way.

Wink
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Ponder 2012 Reply with quote

Christian Ponder wrote:
"I was throwing post routes [to Jerome Simpson] and trying to overthrow him and I couldn't."

i'm surprised no one's made the obvious joke of WHY Ponder couldn't overthrow Simpson.

because Ponder can't get the ball that deep down the field.

Very Happy
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HighHopes


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want one thing from Ponder. I think its ridiculous to say which way Ponder will go off his rookie year. But I will say this. Start him the whole year, competition doesnt always get the best out of someone. (It seems like Ponder is a guy who likes to know what he has, seems like a smart guy who likes planning) Lets fail or succeed with Ponder. And what I want is a clear definition of failure or success. If we can double our wins and Ponder has some top 5 QB weeks, Ill be happy to see him in the 3rd year. If we are down around the same pick, and his completition % or INT dont get better, Im happy to see our next new QB come in or Webb try his chance at the helm.

I think its been debated so many times on what Ponder has done his rookie year, obviously he hasnt done one thing either way enough to determine whether he will be good or bad, and this isnt just Vikings land, it seems split by any football fan. And Im ready to see what Ponder can do with his new weapons and hopefully the line is significantly better.
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Kellerman


Joined: 16 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighHopes wrote:
I want one thing from Ponder. I think its ridiculous to say which way Ponder will go off his rookie year. But I will say this. Start him the whole year, competition doesnt always get the best out of someone. (It seems like Ponder is a guy who likes to know what he has, seems like a smart guy who likes planning) Lets fail or succeed with Ponder. And what I want is a clear definition of failure or success.


Things I'm looking for next season:

~3500 yards
+7 y/att
+60% completion
+20 td
-15 int

Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat.
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Last edited by Kellerman on Thu May 03, 2012 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DJC71


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Ponder 2012 Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Christian Ponder wrote:
"I was throwing post routes [to Jerome Simpson] and trying to overthrow him and I couldn't."

i'm surprised no one's made the obvious joke of WHY Ponder couldn't overthrow Simpson.

because Ponder can't get the ball that deep down the field.

Very Happy
Because it isn't funny? Laughing
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milanb


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:



You've made this argument before, I don't understand where this is coming from. Do you really believe that all rookie QB's that come into the league land in exactly the same situation, with exactly the same help?? Because that is, in essence, what you are saying.


All I'm saying is that Dalton, Yates and Newton stepped into situations that were just as difficult as anything Christian Ponder faced. If anything these guys were under a lot more pressure to perform than Ponder ever was (or is) and they handled it a lot better. Newton was the #1 overall pick and there were a lot of doubters going into the season. Dalton and Yates were on playoff teams and were expected to win football games.

The bottom line is that Christian Ponder had one good game in ten starts. He was part of the reason why his team was bad. If Joe Webb can step in against the Lions and nearly complete a 17-point comeback, and put up up 23 points in less than one half in a win against Washington two weeks later, then clearly this team had a lot of potential that wasn't being realized with Ponder at QB.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
All I'm saying is that Dalton, Yates and Newton stepped into situations that were just as difficult as anything Christian Ponder faced. If anything these guys were under a lot more pressure to perform than Ponder ever was (or is) and they handled it a lot better. Newton was the #1 overall pick and there were a lot of doubters going into the season. Dalton and Yates were on playoff teams and were expected to win football games.


-Dalton and Yates had top 10 defenses and a vastly better O-line, how is that a similar situation?
-First you say their situations are the same, now you say that Ponder was under much less pressure? Fair much?
-There are 21 other starters on football teams, not counting kickers. I'm sure they matter as well.
-If anything, Ponder was under more pressure than those guys. He was a first round pick like Newton, unlike Yates and Dalton. It's funny you mention pressure, because Ponder was under pressure a hell of a lot more than any of those guys on the actual football field last year.
-Not to mention coming into a 1-5 team that was falling apart at the seams.

Look, we can have a fair debate about Ponder's making mistakes, not having the talent, etc, but I don't think there can be any debate about the fact that he was put in the worst position of all rookie QB's (Gabbert would be debatable).
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Uncle Buck


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not making any decisions on Ponder until I see what he does this year. Last year he was a rookie, and came into a team with a new coaching staff, and no offseason. Under those circumstances, there is no way to come to any conclusions regarding our QB.

I don't expect Ponder to be Brett Favre in his second year. If he just makes some strides and improves in making reads and in his decision making, that will be good enough for me. Either way, I believe we have to give him all of 2012 and 2013 before making any decisions on his future.

I like Ponder as a person, and hope he has success. It's not his fault the Vikings panicked and reached to get him. Maybe in time he can make the pick a very wise decision.
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lja99


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only one good game in ten starts? Just because the team didn't win doesn't mean that Ponder had a bad game.

I would say that Ponder had at least 4 quality games: Denver, Carolina, Atlanta, and his first start against Green Bay (the stats don't tell the true story of how well he played in that game)
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