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birdman0069
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6050
Location: Key West, FL
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Quote: | But, care to refute my position. Are you saying that at least 2 of those 3 don't have a realistic chance at making the Hall of Fame, given the level of their current talent and playing ability, age, production?
At least 2, possibly 3, are contributing at a Hall of Fame level of talent/production, i.e. considered top 5 at their respective position. |
If a player like Chris Carter(or even Derrick Thomas) can't get in on the first go around - there's no way Nnamdi and Cole get in at all, unless one of them does something absoluetly insane/record breaking.
I won't comment on McCoy, because he's still young and there's a lot that can happen, good and bad, to a young runningback. |
Thank you. Alot of people are clueless when it comes to the Hall. It's all about numbers. Nnambi's numbers pale in comparison to the last 3 players to get in. Rod Woodson, - LeBeau and Dion all put up stellar numbers. The only current player that even compares is Champ Bailey.
Same goes for Cole. When you ut his numbers up against the BEST players ever, they pale in comparison. It's a joke to even mention a 4th year RB and the HoF in the same sentence.
The only Eagle players in the last 15 years, that have a chance at the Hall are Dawkins and TO and Owens will never go in as an Eagle.
There are good players, great players and HoF Players. HoF players have all the awards and stats to backup their inductions. Example, Westbrook- great Eagles player, not a great HoF Player. There isn't a player on this roster that has HoF numbers.
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | ^^^
No, I don't believe they will. I think McCoy has a chance, but a lot can happen, as previously stated. I don't really know if Nnamdi has the hard metric stats to make the Hall of Fame, honestly. Don't get me wrong, I love both guys, but I'm not sure if I would consider them Hall of Fame worthy.
I just think the term "future hall of famer" is thrown around to often on this board. |
You're focusing on one part, and still ignoring the second part.
This is not meant to be a hall of fame argument on the merits, but rather my ultimate point is that we have 2 or 3 guys playing and contributing at a hall of fame level (regardless of whether they actually end up in the hall).
Is that something you agree or disagree with? |
What do you consider a hall of fame level? Without any clarification on if you differ the meaning, that means to me furute Hall of Famers.
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Jroc04
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 8991
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Basically, 2004 but with McCoy, Maclin, Celek, Cole, Jenkins, Aso, Dorenboss.
And there's 2 hall of fame players, Dawk and TO. There's really no other discussion. Anyone else isn't good enough or haven't played long enough. Aso is an argument but his stats won't get him there. Anyone that votes is old school and they're going to look right at INTs and the likes.
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| 808 wrote: | | Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much. |
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babyatemydingo
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 5914
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Compared to the other Super Bowl team.
QB: McNabb/Vick/Jaworski
RB: Westbrook/McCoy/Montgomery
FB: Parry/Havili/Harris
WR1: Owens/Jackson/Carmichael
WR2: Pinkston/Maclin/Smith
Slot WR: Mitchell/Avant/Parker
TE: L.J. Smith/ Celek/Krepfle
LT: Thomas/Bell/Walters
LG: Hicks/Mathis/Peoples
C: Fraley/Kelce/Morris
RG: Mayberry/Watkins/Perot
RT: Runyan/Herremans/Sisemore
RE: Kearse/Cole/Hairston
DT: Walker/Jenkins/Johnson
DT: Simon/Patterson/Harrison*
LE: Douglas/Babin/Humphrey*
SLB: Jones/Kendricks/Robinson
MLB: Trotter/Ryans/Bergey*
WLB: Adams/Chaney/Bunting
CB: Sheppard/Asomugha/Edwards
CB: Brown/Rodgers-Cromartie/Young
Slot CB: Hood/Hanson/Blackmore
SS: Lewis/Jarrett/Logan
FS: Dawkins/Allen/Williams
K: Akers/Henery/Franklin
P: Johnson/Henry/Runager
LS: Bartrum/Dorenbos/Slater
KR: Reed/Lewis/Campfield
PR: Mahe/Jackson/Henry
*Played a 3-4 with LeMaster in the middle.
Humphreys came in on 3rd down, Harrison moved inside.
Aligned in 3rd down set for comparison purposes. |
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birdman0069
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6050
Location: Key West, FL
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'll take Jaws team anyday. That D was awsome.
Different game today though.
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jonu62882
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 18416
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | ^^^
No, I don't believe they will. I think McCoy has a chance, but a lot can happen, as previously stated. I don't really know if Nnamdi has the hard metric stats to make the Hall of Fame, honestly. Don't get me wrong, I love both guys, but I'm not sure if I would consider them Hall of Fame worthy.
I just think the term "future hall of famer" is thrown around to often on this board. |
You're focusing on one part, and still ignoring the second part.
This is not meant to be a hall of fame argument on the merits, but rather my ultimate point is that we have 2 or 3 guys playing and contributing at a hall of fame level (regardless of whether they actually end up in the hall).
Is that something you agree or disagree with? |
What do you consider a hall of fame level? Without any clarification on if you differ the meaning, that means to me furute Hall of Famers. |
I already mentioned it. I consider it to be top 5 at their respective position. |
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Jroc04
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 8991
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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That's an amazing trio if backs.
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| 808 wrote: | | Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much. |
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Broadway Joe
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 6351
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | ^^^
No, I don't believe they will. I think McCoy has a chance, but a lot can happen, as previously stated. I don't really know if Nnamdi has the hard metric stats to make the Hall of Fame, honestly. Don't get me wrong, I love both guys, but I'm not sure if I would consider them Hall of Fame worthy.
I just think the term "future hall of famer" is thrown around to often on this board. |
You're focusing on one part, and still ignoring the second part.
This is not meant to be a hall of fame argument on the merits, but rather my ultimate point is that we have 2 or 3 guys playing and contributing at a hall of fame level (regardless of whether they actually end up in the hall).
Is that something you agree or disagree with? |
What do you consider a hall of fame level? Without any clarification on if you differ the meaning, that means to me furute Hall of Famers. |
I already mentioned it. I consider it to be top 5 at their respective position. |
I think top 5 still might not be enough.
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babyatemydingo
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | 2004... Two hall of fame players... |
It's realistically possible this Eagles team has 2 or 3 Hall of Fame players, as well (Nnamdi, Cole, and McCoy). |
Cole?
Ten players with at least 100 sacks who are not in the Hall of Fame:
Leslie O'Neal - 132
Clyde Simmons - 121
Sean Jones - 113
Greg Townsend - 109
Trace Armstrong - 106
Neil Smith - 104
Kevin Carter - 104
Jim Jeffcoat - 102
Charles Haley* - 100
William Fuller - 100
+ 25 other defensive linemen who have more sacks than Cole and are eligible for the Hall of Fame.
Trent Cole - 68
Man, he is a long way off.
He does not appear to be a Hall of Famer.
*A travesty |
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Jroc04
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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If there are 22 positions and 5 guys performing at that elite "top 5" level then that means there's 110 HoF level guys in the league? That's too much.
How many guys do the let in each year? 2-3. That should be what you consider HoF. Ray Lewis, Peyton Manning and Brady are all shoe-ins. How many others as of now really? No one on the Eagles for sure.
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| 808 wrote: | | Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much. |
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EaglesFly58High
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 2459
Location: Bellmawr, New Jersey / The Eagles Forum
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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2004 all day. The team this year is great on paper. They have to prove themselves first before this discussion even takes place.
SB Team > Paper Team
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Trent Cole (5th Round Pick #146) Career Stats - 353 Solo Tackles, 13 Forced Fumbles, 71 Sacks, 2x Pro Bowler
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jonu62882
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 18416
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think Nnamdi will make it in. He already has been regarded as a top 2 CB over the last 6+ years, and has several All-Pro's to his name. He's only 30/31, and it doesn't look like he'll continue to stop playing at a high level anytime soon, especially where his game is not centered on speed.
Trent Cole is obviously a longshot, but he's definitely been putting up Hall of Fame-level production, stacking up with his peers over the last 6 years. If he continues to play at high-level (at least 10-12 sacks per year while being a top run-defender) for another 5 years and accumulates a couple more All-Pro's, he'll have a decent shot. He's gonna need about 50 more sacks to be in Top 15 in sack totals. The problem with Trent is that he has had some stiff competition, and hasn't received the credit and spotlight unlike some of his peers.
And McCoy, obviously being way too young for this conversation, has demonstrated the ability to play at a Hall of Fame level only in his 3rd year, with an All-Pro to his name.
Now, a lot of this conjecture is way too early, there is still a long way to go for all players, and anything can happen along the way to derail careers early, but who's to say that we don't see these 2 or 3 very special players in Hall of Fame one day...
Last edited by jonu62882 on Fri May 04, 2012 1:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 9943
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | ^^^
No, I don't believe they will. I think McCoy has a chance, but a lot can happen, as previously stated. I don't really know if Nnamdi has the hard metric stats to make the Hall of Fame, honestly. Don't get me wrong, I love both guys, but I'm not sure if I would consider them Hall of Fame worthy.
I just think the term "future hall of famer" is thrown around to often on this board. |
You're focusing on one part, and still ignoring the second part.
This is not meant to be a hall of fame argument on the merits, but rather my ultimate point is that we have 2 or 3 guys playing and contributing at a hall of fame level (regardless of whether they actually end up in the hall).
Is that something you agree or disagree with? |
What do you consider a hall of fame level? Without any clarification on if you differ the meaning, that means to me furute Hall of Famers. |
I already mentioned it. I consider it to be top 5 at their respective position. |
A Hall of Fame level is not top 5 at your position, so that meaning if off by a good amount. Are they top 5? More then likely, yes; depending of who ask obviously. Are they playing at a Hall of Fame level? Absoluetly not(I'm excluding McCoy here).
Here's an idea, go back to the 2011 preseason rankings in the comparsions forum and tell me all those guys, from each spot plays at a "Hall of Fame" level - I'll save you time, they don't.
If you had said top 5 and left out the Hall of Fame level, I'd be on board; but I can't agree with "Hall of Fame" level.
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EaglesFly58High
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 2459
Location: Bellmawr, New Jersey / The Eagles Forum
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | I think Nnamdi will make it in. He already has been regarded as a top 2 CB over the last 6+ years, and has several All-Pro's to his name. He's only 30/31, and it doesn't look like he'll continue to stop playing at a high level anytime soon, especially where his game is not centered on speed.
Trent Cole is obviously a longshot, but he's definitely been putting up Hall of Fame-level production, stacking up with his peers over the last 6 years. If he continues to play at high-level (at least 10-12 sacks per year while being a top run-defender) for another 5 years and accumulates a couple more All-Pro's, he'll have a decent shot. He's gonna need about 50 more sacks to be in Top 15 in sack totals. The problem with Trent is that he has had some stiff competition, and hasn't received the credit and spotlight unlike some of his peers.
And McCoy, obviously being way too young for this conversation, has demonstrated the ability to play at a Hall of Fame level only in his 3rd year, with an All-Pro to his name.
Now, a lot of this conjecture is way too early, there is still a long way to go for all players, and anything can happen along the way to derail careers early, but who's to say that we don't see these 2 or 3 very special players in Hall of Fame one day... |
This.
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Trent Cole (5th Round Pick #146) Career Stats - 353 Solo Tackles, 13 Forced Fumbles, 71 Sacks, 2x Pro Bowler
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 9943
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think Nnamdi will make it in. He already has been regarded at a top 2 CB over the last 6+ years, and has several All-Pro's to his name. He's only 30/31, and it doesn't look like he'll continue to stop playing at high level anytime soon, where his game is not centered on speed. |
Like I stated before, Nnamdi is a very, very good corner. The thing that will kill Nnamdi and any hope he has to get into the Hall of Fame, is his lack of hard metric stats.
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